5D Tactical beating Rook Tactical to the universal-80%-pistol-jig-punch?

[Racer88]

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/polymer80/comments/13m938s/80_multiplatform_pistol_jig_available_next_week/

And at a significantly lower price? Anyone have any info? Comparisons?

 

[Mooner]

$150 early bird and $200 msrp

I don't about you but isn't this moot point by now? We can order frame with jig now so what's the need for reusable metal jig?

Maybe for poor Reddit hand drillers eh? Than again they are not going to invest more $$$ so hmm.

 

[Racer88]

$150 early bird and $200 msrp

I don't about you but isn't this moot point by now? We can order frame with jig now so what's the need for reusable metal jig?

Maybe for poor Reddit hand drillers eh? Than again they are not going to invest more $$$ so hmm.

View attachment 11151

I hear ya. I've debated that myself. All of my (unbuilt) frames came with jigs, since I bought them before the insanity.

That said... while I haven't had any problems drilling pin holes, I'm admittedly nervous every time I do it. A plastic jig doesn't offer much in terms of really preventing an errant drill plunge. So, the idea of a METAL jig is an attractive one to me. And I'd consider getting one.

I'm certainly a loyal fan of Rook Tactical at this point. But I'm curious about the differences or advantages / disadvantages of one over the other. If one is better, price becomes less of a factor.

 

[Mooner]

So, the idea of a METAL jig is an attractive one to me. And I'd consider getting one.

I love the fact that you are on my team... take one for the team and we will wait for your feedback

 

[Racer88]

I love the fact that you are on my team... take one for the team and we will wait for your feedback

One of each?

 

[USApat]

I agree with both Mooner and Racer88. It is a hard call. At first I was wondering why 5D sorta ignored this forum and announced it on Reddit. Or, it appears they announced it there first. Granted there are a lot more folks on Reddit, but Mooner has a valid point. The folks in this forum are dang resourceful.

Having said that, I am 100% satisfied with 5Ds products for ARs. Drilling the safety detent hole by a hand drill has worked out every time for me. It takes a little bit of effort drilling that hole and their bushing has held up well.

The only thing that bothers me with 5D is the fact that their first generation AR jig had different aluminum side posts than the current model. I read that they don't sell these anymore, nor will they sell the wearable bushing to former customers. The bushin is an OBVIOUS replacement part. It doesn't affect me now because I have the correct generation for now. But who knows, if this will change.

I don't agree with them not providing parts that wear out to former customers. This is bad, bad, bad. It has not been that long since the first gen jig was for sale. In my opinion they should offer spares on a wear product like side bushings going back probably 5-10 years. The part is cheap, and it should be available so that people can press the worn bushing out and press a new one in.

And finally, at this stage of the game, I do have reservations when first drilling into a plastic jig with a plastic guide. My solution to that was to gang up all jigs and lowers at once and drill all of them in one setting. One after the other. Prepare all of them and go. The odds of making an error increase every time you have to setup your dremel drill press stand or drill press. So, I opted to square everything up once and check it countless times before drilling the batch. This may not be for everyone, because if you screw up setting it up, all your lowers are F*cked and you'll be patching by JB Weld or buying new frames.

It is a bit late in the game too, so I don't know if I will buy the pistol jig. I enjoy the hobby, but my wallet has taken a decent KAPOW! It doesn't help that so many folks in this forum post bad ass builds and make you want to take another bite of the apple. So, we'll see what shakes out.

$00.02 YMMV

 

[clm2112]

Wow, this is a tough call. Before the ATF's b.s. play it was a no-brain-er. The whole concept of the Polymer80 was a one-time use plastic jig included with each frame. Now, there is the uncertainty of being able to get the jig needed to make the pistol the way the designers envisioned... creating a need for a reusable jig. Yes, we are currently winning the fight with the ATF, but now that they have figured out that going after the tooling is a way to curb the activity, I figure they will try it again.

So, a metal jig with wear bushings is a viable solution, albeit an expensive one.

But, just as viable is a throw-away 3D printed plastic jig. Using the money that would be spent on a jig towards a 3D printer and make the jig yourself as needed.

Really, it is going to come down to justifying the cost of the tooling and your skill level. You can still F-it up using a metal jig if you don't know how to drill a hole.

Personally, I don't have a need for one, so I will not be buying one either way. I'm at the point where if I really had to do it, I could measure, mark, and drill the holes without any jig at all. The jigs are just handy short-cuts.

 

[Racer88]

At first I was wondering why 5D sorta ignored this forum and announced it on Reddit.

To be fair, so has Rook Tactical. They made an announcement about the "Uno" on the Reddit group and said nothing here - even though they do have an account on PBG. One of US (maybe me?) announced the "Uno" here by posting a link to their blog article.

We are still "small potatoes." The merchants don't yet see this forum as worthy of posting, I guess.

It is a bit late in the game too, so I don't know if I will buy the pistol jig. I enjoy the hobby, but my wallet has taken a decent KAPOW! It doesn't help that so many folks in this forum post bad ass builds and make you want to take another bite of the apple. So, we'll see what shakes out.

I'm always looking for an edge when it comes to quality and precision of outcome. All my pending frames came with jigs. So I don't "neeeeeeed" a reusable jig. But I like the idea of it for the aforementioned reasons.

But, just as viable is a throw-away 3D printed plastic jig. Using the money that would be spent on a jig towards a 3D printer and make the jig yourself as needed.

But then it's still plastic with it's greater potential for an errant hole... even though I haven't had one with my standard plastic P80 jigs.

 

[bkbrno]

I have the GST-9 metal jig. Too lazy to look up the proper name. I bought it mainly to check my work on the first GST-9 I did. I found one hole slightly off causing a few problems. I got to learn a few new skills like filling and redrilling holes.

The metal bushings will give you better, straighter holes. If you want the best job you can obtain, this is the way to go. It was something like $100-150 for the jig with a 3 pack of rails. Not sure what I will do with the spares but I have them.

You still need to be careful and take your time. There are still plenty of ways to mess it up. The GST-9 jig will not fit the P80, I tried. The trigger guard is too different and the tabs used for alignment are a different size between the two blanks so they don't fit the P80.

 

[clm2112]

But then it's still plastic with it's greater potential for an errant hole... even though I haven't had one with my standard plastic P80 jigs.

Yup, and I said, you can f-up drilling a hole no matter what you use. It comes down to learning a skill.

What is the jigs purpose... 1. Hold the work in place. 2. Locate the starting point of the hole(s) in the work. That's it. It is not a replacement for good technique.

The actual act of drilling the hole can still be screwed up even with a metal jig and drill bushings. Drill bits are flexible and if you come in at an angle, you'll mess it up, bushing be damned.

Now, if we go back in time, we drilled accurate holes the old fashioned way. You marked the location of the hole, you center-punched it to give the point of the bit a place to start, and then you squared up your drill to bore through the material. The drill bit guides itself into the hole it is boring. In a material as soft as polymer plastic, you can do this without the aid of any power tools at all. Just a ruler, a pencil, a center punch, drill bits, and a pin-vise. Oh, and a fair amount of time. But, the slow speed of the process actually worked to your advantage because you could see a mistake happening and correct it before the work got ruined. Try it sometime and see what I'm talking about.

 

[Steelart99]

I took a "new" jig and made some brass bushings to glue in place over the holes as drill guides for multiple use of a single jig. I used the appropriate sizes drill bits as guides to ensure the alignment when I glued the bushings on. I made the bushings on a small jewelers lathe. I haven't tried it out yet ... but here it is.

 

[Michele]

Thats cool. What glue did u use. Plastic is notorious for being finicky about holding due to the oils in it.

 

[Steelart99]

I used a Brownell's bedding epoxy. Something I've had on my shelf for 20 years. Overnight cure.

Seemed to work well although I had planned to use JB Weld Steel epoxy. Maybe on the next model jig ... assuming this works.

I cleaned everything with Mineral Spirits followed with alcohol.

I haven't used this yet, but will update on how well it works when I do.

 

[USApat]

I took a "new" jig and made some brass bushings to glue in place over the holes as drill guides for multiple use of a single jig. I used the appropriate sizes drill bits as guides to ensure the alignment when I glued the bushings on. I made the bushings on a small jewelers lathe. I haven't tried it out yet ... but here it is.

Are those brass bushings sourced from McMaster Carr? I am curious if that is the source, or it is it someone else.

 

[USApat]

Are those brass bushings sourced from McMaster Carr? I am curious if that is the source, or it is it someone else.

my bad. I see your comment here: >>>I made the bushings on a small jewelers lathe<<<

 

[Steelart99]

my bad. I see your comment here: >>>I made the bushings on a small jewelers lathe<<<

I ordered brass "tubing" from Amazon and simply chucked a small piece up in my lathe and drilled the existing hole to the proper dimension for the existing hole size in the plastic jig.

I slid a drill bit through the two sides of the plastic jig and then placed my brass bushing over the end of the drill. Everything stays perfectly aligned that way. I coated the drill bit end with a bit of oil so that it wouldn't get bonded to the bushing while gluing it up. I tacked the bushing in place with super glue then removed the drill bit. Then I put thickening epoxy around the bushing. I did rough up and solvent clean all bonding surfaces of plastic and bushing before gluing.

I used a 7mm OD x 2mm wall tubing. This gave me a 3mm ID hole that matches the drill size I use for the 3mm hole (doh!). I hand reamed the 3mm plastic jig hole to 3mm diameter and proceeded as noted above.

For the 4mm hole, I used a 5/32 drill that matched the plastic jig "4mm" hole. I used the same drill size to drill out the center hole of the brass tubing noted above. Same technique for bonding the brass bushings on.

Amazon product ASIN B07Z9924J7
View: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Z9924J7?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

 

[axkiker]

Not sure how people are drilling but one thing that saves a lot is to turn the press on after the bit is in the jig. Drill bits arent designed for side cutting so if the speed is set slow and you start already in the jig you save it from chewing up the sides. AT least it works for me and im on I think #4 with no wear that I can detect on my jig.

 

[Racer88]

Not sure how people are drilling but one thing that saves a lot is to turn the press on after the bit is in the jig. Drill bits arent designed for side cutting so if the speed is set slow and you start already in the jig you save it from chewing up the sides. AT least it works for me and im on I think #4 with no wear that I can detect on my jig.

Are you talking about the P80 plastic jig?

I got a foot pedal switch for my Dremel, which is really nice and offers a lot more control than using the switch on the Dremel tool itself.

 

[axkiker]

Are you talking about the P80 plastic jig?

I got a foot pedal switch for my Dremel, which is really nice and offers a lot more control than using the switch on the Dremel tool itself.

Yeah I have the p80 plastic jig.

 

[Imthemanlol413]

What speed should the dremel be on when cutting?