Serialize your AR lower at Home

[Mooner]

EDIT: Brian has a good point about SN, I have edited them out.

It finally happened to ME, I was asked to leave a non-serialized firearm in the car. In this indoor range, they check rifle ammo and rifles to make sure it is "safe". They started to say "According to ATF..." I stopped listening. I have learned there is no point arguing legality to range fuds. The next day I went to another indoor range a little farther away and had no issue.

I always had planned to add serial numbers on my ARs, but this just made it top of my project list...

So here we go... If you haven't, check our @Michele awesome tutorial about electro etching.

Ordered a bunch of AR stencils from dogfightink.com

Alcohol cleaned and preheated with a heat gun then attached the stencils...

Carefully peel the outer layer while using the flat card.

Instead of qtip and rubbing method, I decided to use the dam method. Using hot glue, I made a small dam.

I have forgotten how much black sludge it makes...

used a small fine brush to move the sludge out of the way. rinse and repeat.

This is the right side, I used masking tape to move the sludge away without a dam. Much faster too, with less rinse and more repeat

final result...

For the next one, I will have to mask off the whole lower, I do see some leakage where it had an etched outer perimeter. If anyone asks I will say this lower was on sale for being a "BLEM"

 

[brian]

I may be a worry wort, but I try to avoid posting any of my serial #s or identifying marks online.

The results look great. I may need to try the glue gun dam method on an AR lower.

 

[Racer88]

I may be a worry wort, but I try to avoid posting any of my serial #s or identifying marks online.

The results look great. I may need to try the glue gun dam method on an AR lower.

It's not a "real" SN, so I'd say no worries about anyone using it in nefarious ways.

It's a vanity SN, which should be enough to placate the busy-body RSOs who think they know the law.

 

[Bcichlid]

I like when builders put their own custom twist to the #
F-ATF001 ........
Never going to forget it.

 

[Mooner]

Noted Brian, as Racer said... I'm not worried about posting vanity SN , goal is to get local range fuds to get off my back. Who knows, It would likely fool local LEOs. They can't even tell difference between AR Pistol vs AR Rifles.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

I don't think anyone can define what a 'real' serial number is. If it has a number permanently etched, rolled or stamped, it's good as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Michele]

Great etch sir !. Getting er done with a damn or full emersion makes a nice etch of equal depth. The Damn method is super for an AR as long as everything is sealed good. I noticed that the black vinyl sticks best…even better if the base material is warm when applied. The vinyl adhesive seems to adhere to base material irregularities better when heated n pressed in

Reason we marked all 80% , never know who’s snooping around at the range or out in the field. If the firearm has a number absolutely no reasonable articulable suspicion to suspect any wrong doing.

 

[brian]

Noted Brian, as Racer said... I'm not worried about posting vanity SN , goal is to get local range fuds to get off my back. Who knows, It would likely fool local LEOs. They can't even tell difference between AR Pistol vs AR Rifles.

I get that, but why post it? I'm not gunning at you as I support what we are doing 100%. Just guarding against the outliers.

 

[Mooner]

I get that, but why post it? I'm not gunning at you as I support what we are doing 100%. Just guarding against the outliers.

guess there is no good answer

 

[Bongo Lewi]

I always blur serial numbers in photos. A bot could easily harvest gun photos from the web and log those numbers.

Who would do that? A gun hater like Bloomberg could fund the development of such a tool and turn over the resulting database to Uncle Sam free of charge. That would probably not be illegal - since it was not government-sponsored.

 

[Racer88]

I don't think anyone can define what a 'real' serial number is. If it has a number permanently etched, rolled or stamped, it's good as far as I'm concerned.

Actually, a real SN is very well defined. <--- linky

To my understanding, It has to be recorded by an FFL. Then there is the "trail" that can be "traced." Then to get the PMF back from the FFL, you'll have to submit a 4473.

A SN applied by a private owner is never entered into any FFL "book." Therefore it is a vanity SN.

 

[brian]

A SN applied by a private owner is never entered into any FFL "book." Therefore it is a vanity SN.

Which is why I have started calling mine an identifying mark as I am not an FFL and don't want to be accused of building a firearm and serializing it for sale nor to be accused building a gun and failing to serialize it properly. Even if a vanity S/N or identifying mark, why post it publicly? I don't see an upside to sharing it. And again, I double down that I am not against what @Mooner posted or etched but rather much like @Racer88 elected to buy a serialized P80 for EDC just suggesting caution as this is a public forum and we know anti-gunners are watching.

 

[Racer88]

Which is why I have started calling mine an identifying mark as I am not an FFL and don't want to be accused of building a firearm and serializing it for sale nor to be accused building a gun and failing to serialize it properly. Even if a vanity S/N or identifying mark, why post it publicly? I don't see an upside to sharing it. And again, I double down that I am not against what @Mooner posted or etched but rather much like @Racer88 elected to buy a serialized P80 for EDC just suggesting caution as this is a public forum and we know anti-gunners are watching.

I don't mean to imply that a self-applied SN has no value. It might even be a smart thing to do, if only as an "identifying mark" (as you described) in case it is stolen.

My point is that I don't believe a self-applied SN meets the legal standards set by some states requiring it on PMFs... or at the federal level, either.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Privately made firearms marked by nonlicensees.Unless previously identified by another licensee in accordance with this section, licensees may adopt a unique identification number previously placed on a privately made firearm by an unlicensed person, but not duplicated on any other firearm of the licensee, that otherwise meets the identification requirements of this section provided that, within the period and in the manner herein prescribed, the licensee legibly and conspicuously places, or causes to be placed, on the frame or receiver thereof a serial number beginning with their abbreviated Federal firearms license number, which is the first three and last five digits, followed by a hyphen, before the existing unique identification number, e.g., “12345678-[unique identification number]”.


All that says - legally - is that the number applied by the unlicensed maker must be unique. As in not duplicated. The rest is mumbo jumbo about ensuring no duplicity with licensed manufacturers. I would avoid builders using the serial number "EAT MY SHORTS 1" or something equivalent to that. Better to go with something like GC-01234567. If and when the PMF is sold, some snarky s/n is going to attract negative attention if there's a buyer background check. This, I think, is soon to be likely in every type of transfer. As the saying goes, fuck around and find out.

For factory firearms, serial numbers on FFL logs and 4473's when NICS checks are done are not sent to the ATF. They can demand them at any time but the ATF can only verify immediately what dealer received the gun from the manufacturer. Not who bought it - without auditing the dealer's sales records and their 4473s. Is the government secretly and illegally storing serial numbers and buyer's names? Maybe.

These days, just about every manufacturer of anything that isn't a commodity keeps serial number records and knows what dealer received those parts or machines to be sold. Even food and drugs have lot codes (vs serial numbers) for this. That's how they do recalls.

 

[brian]

I don't mean to imply that a self-applied SN has no value. It might even be a smart thing to do, if only as an "identifying mark" (as you described) in case it is stolen.

My point is that I don't believe a self-applied SN meets the legal standards set by some states requiring it on PMFs... or at the federal level, either.

I won't argue against your points. Another factor involved is that these newly passed laws don't address PMFs already in existence. If I have a PMF which I have elected to put an identifying mark on - am I grandfathered from their law? If not, then that is an Ex post facto law as there is really no way for me to serialize to the newly defined law once I have put my marks on that metal plate. And when I did I was acting in good faith to the laws on the books at the time as there was no requirement for me to do so per FFL standards. One can argue that a blank plate could be serialized still, but for sure a plate that has been marked is a done deal. On this forum I know I am preaching to the choir as we all understand that these people passing laws don't understand firearms and further are not thinking through things that are legal as of the time the law is passed.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Interesting discussion. The way I look at it we are all going to die someday and our guns need to go somewhere. As amusing as I find this practice, I don't want regulators kicking my widow or my son's door in - or causing them grief in selling my guns because I was snarky with serial numbers on 80% lowers.

Once you round the corner on a half century it's a good idea to start thinking about what happens if you drop dead.

 

[Racer88]

If not, then that is an Ex post facto law as there is really no way for me to serialize to the newly defined law once I have put my marks on that metal plate.

The other issue is that the SN# marking requirements are impossible to follow with the size of the plate on the P80 frames. It won't fit!

we all understand that these people passing laws don't understand firearms and further are not thinking through things that are legal as of the time the law is passed.

Yep. See above. But I submit they don't care about facts or whether their new laws violate the laws of physics or time and space. They don't have to care about how guns actually work or don't work. Their goal isn't safety or helping ANYONE. Their goal is singular: To CONTROL people. PERIOD.

As amusing as I find this practice, I don't want regulators kicking my widow or my son's door in - or causing them grief in selling my guns because I was snarky with serial numbers on 80% lowers.

Have you serialized your builds? If so, how did you go about it?

 

[Bongo Lewi]

The other issue is that the SN# marking requirements are impossible to follow with the size of the plate on the P80 frames. It won't fit!


Yep. See above. But I submit they don't care about facts or whether their new laws violate the laws of physics or time and space. They don't have to care about how guns actually work or don't work. Their goal isn't safety or helping ANYONE. Their goal is singular: To CONTROL people. PERIOD.


Have you serialized your builds? If so, how did you go about it?

I haven't serialized any of my recent P80 or GST-9 pistols yet because I haven't found the right solution for doing it. I think laser is the way to go. I have zero interest in taking the chemical approach. Too involved, too messy. I'm all about time and it being easy. A couple of the pistol frames I bought were serialized so I wouldn't have to deal with this issue later. This s/n issue does weigh on me. I want a number on all my guns. If for no other reason, my insurance requires it.

The AR lowers... I had no choice but to use metal stamps to hammer a number into the lower. I hated that and didn't like the way it looked. I haven't done an 80% AR build for a long time. It's not worth the effort to me. I'm not big on ARs anyway. If I were to build another, I would use a stripped serialized frame. Even though I own a vertical mill that's more than capable.

The question I have about lasers is how much power is needed to make a suitable s/n. Also cost and ease of use. I think the 'spec' for how deep the number is embedded into the metal is nearly impossible to measure. Nor do I think anyone gives a shit. But there is regulatory guidance on that as we all know. Nobody is going to get into trouble because a number etched on a firearm isn't 'deep enough'.

 

[Racer88]

If for no other reason, my insurance requires it.

Another good reason to do it. I haven't added my P80s to my insurance gun rider.

I agree with all your other concerns. If it was easy AND I had clear guidelines... I'd serialize all of my builds. If for no other reasons... insurance / theft / identifying mark.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Another good reason to do it.

I agree with all your other concerns. If it was easy AND I had clear guidelines... I'd serialize all of my builds. If for no other reasons... insurance / theft / identifying mark.

I'm pretty sure the 'spec' for how deep a s/n should be goes back to when all guns were metal. The Gubbament regulators making sure it wasn't easy to grind the serial number off the frame. Criminals have doing that for a century to make tracing stolen guns difficult.

Today, the metal serial number 'tag' on polymer gun frames is very thin and it would be more likely that it would be defaced differently or pried off vs grinding down the number to make it illegible. To make this even more complicated, in the not-too-distant future all polymer handguns will be modular and have a removable, serialized FCU. The frame will not have a number. This trend has already begun.