looks like some legit sites selling P80 frames again

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The Supreme Court stooped to a new unconstitutional low today.


Injustices Coney-Barrett and Roberts voted just as their true nature reveals…and sides with the gun grabbing enemies to our Constitution. Their (temporally) majority vote, illustrates just how deep and high the infiltration is. They are doing as much damage to this republic as they can, as quickly as they can.

Meanwhile, Chief Justice Thomas saw the issue a different way and was very clear in his view.




 
One Ping Only said:
The Supreme Court stooped to a new unconstitutional low today.


Injustices Coney-Barrett and Roberts voted just as their true nature reveals…and sides with the gun grabbing enemies to our Constitution. Their (temporally) majority vote, illustrates just how deep and high the infiltration is. They are doing as much damage to this republic as they can, as quickly as they can.

Meanwhile, Chief Justice Thomas saw the issue a different way and was very clear in his view.




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This will simply drive the printing and milling side of the hobby. The genie is out of the bottle. Or as some say, "Can't stop the signal."

Either we are Free... or we are not. It is binary.
 
The date on that article is March 26. Doesn't that make it old news?

I will offer that the ruling refers to kits over and over. What about just the frame? Doesn't cover that.
 
bkbrno said:
The date on that article is March 26. Doesn't that make it old news?

I will offer that the ruling refers to kits over and over. What about just the frame? Doesn't cover that.
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Great point and yes. Old news perhaps, but new reality and a new can of worms opened because of it. Will they now serialize slides, frames, barrels, etc...? Time will tell.
 
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The ruled on kits and 'readily convertible'. The Atee Eph get to decide what that is. That was the ruling.

This is no different than constructive intent. Which has been around a long time. If you are discovered to have the parts to assemble an unlicensed suppressor (no stamp) but haven't assembled it, you are guilty of a crime.

What on Earth did people do before 2013 and the emergence of Polymer 80?

I'll say it again. The son of one of the founders (who were no longer involved or dead) managed the company stupidly. That's one reason why they are gone. Ghost Gunner played it smart. They are still around. They focused on serving a a community of builders who have a modicum of skill. P80 went for the monkeys and high volume sales. Victims of their own plan. It was inevitable the feds were going to intervene.

Paraphrasing the old nursery rhyme. "Who Killed Cock Robin?" It was bubba smiths, people bragging about owning untraceable guns, and gang bangers. P80 played right into the hands of the gun grabber community.
 
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Unfortunately, Loren's overt thumbing his nose at those pukes, in spite of being well-educated in the US Constitution and Bill of Rights, was like sticking a bat into a hornet's nest. I can't disagree, BL.

Like I said in another post- right or wrong, they have the badge and we are peon subjects in their view. Pick your battles, and the timing of them, wisely.
 
I'll add that in addition to what I said... when the World of Warcraft and Mall Ninja dorks living in their Mom's basement started building PMFs, that also contributed. As the old Mafia saying goes... il baccia della morte. The kiss of death.
 
One Ping Only said:
Unfortunately, Loren's overt thumbing his nose at those pukes, in spite of being well-educated in the US Constitution and Bill of Rights, was like sticking a bat into a hornet's nest. I can't disagree, BL.

Like I said in another post- right or wrong, they have the badge and we are peon subjects in their view. Pick your battles, and the timing of them, wisely.
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+1. The gubbament is not hard to out maneuver. You just have to be less stupid than them. Figuratively speaking, you take them on full frontal attack, they have an endless pot of money and resources to defeat you.

Arrogance is a handicap in any type of battle. So is hating your adversary.
 
Bongo Lewi said:
Ghost Gunner played it smart. They are still around. They focused on serving a a community of builders who have a modicum of skill.
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Ummmm... that milling machine is entirely guided by the computer. It takes ZERO manual skills. From what I understand, it's MUCH easier to have a CAD/CAM 3D mill do it than your own two hands and a Dremel. It's more expensive, certainly. But I'm not sure where you infer a higher level of skill with that modality.
 
Bongo Lewi said:
World of Warcraft and Mall Ninja dorks living in their Mom's basement started building PMFs, that also contributed.
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Unsuccessfully. The evidence was all over Reddit. Very few of those guns were operable.
 
Racer88 said:
Ummmm... that milling machine is entirely guided by the computer. It takes ZERO manual skills
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Correct, GG takes less skill than a Polymer80. You just need a bigger bank account.

If I was a Libtard, I would argue that outlawing Polymer80s and not Ghost Gunners is racist and discriminated against low income people and certain ethnic groups.
 
Racer88 said:
Ummmm... that milling machine is entirely guided by the computer. It takes ZERO manual skills. From what I understand, it's MUCH easier to have a CAD/CAM 3D mill do it than your own two hands and a Dremel. It's more expensive, certainly. But I'm not sure where you infer a higher level of skill with that modality.
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I also wonder what constitutes "making" the frame? On a P80 80%, as soon as you started drilling or cutting or whatever you had made it a firearm (in the eyes of the law) and it had to be for you, not something you made planning to give/sell to someone else.

For this GhostGunner mill, could a group of friends get together and buy one and then whoever puts the blank in and hits "start" is the builder/owner of that frame? For that matter, could an owner "rent" use of the machine to someone for $50 or whatever to cut the frame following the same idea?
 
brian said:
I also wonder what constitutes "making" the frame? On a P80 80%, as soon as you started drilling or cutting or whatever you had made it a firearm (in the eyes of the law) and it had to be for you, not something you made planning to give/sell to someone else.

For this GhostGunner mill, could a group of friends get together and buy one and then whoever puts the blank in and hits "start" is the builder/owner of that frame? For that matter, could an owner "rent" use of the machine to someone for $50 or whatever to cut the frame following the same idea?
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No idea.
 
I dont have a GG but know someone who did buy one of the earlier units. It was the first generation or second, I'm not sure which. I watched as he made an AR10 frame. It's automated - mostly - aside from have to reposition the lower manually once or twice and changing the end mill to a bit when required. However, having witnessed the GG mill a lower and having "Dremeled" a dozen or so 80% plastic frames myself I do not agree that the GG is something a monkey can easily do.

It's expensive for sure. I didn't buy a GG because I had no desire to make enough guns to justify the cost. That assumption was wrong. I ended up making a bunch of P80s and other 80% frames. I could have had a machine that basically can turn a plain block of metal into something useful, mill an 80% AR10, 9, or 15 lower, a 1911 frame, mill and port slides, and also engrave. It can also drill a blank AK or even make a Glock-ish fire control unit similar to the new Ruger. You dont need to be a machinist to use it but this is not an amateur tool.

My friend's GG was the motivation to buy a vertical mill. I thought at the time that was money better spent because you can make just about anything you want that will physically fit in the mill. My mill cost about the same as the GG. A few short years later, I see GG has done a good job of expanding the capability of their CNC machine, also allowing the user some creative freedom to make it do whatever they want. basically, a hobby CNC. Same as a Dremel? Easier? Bullshit. More like the style and complexity of 3D printing some gun enthusiasts are doing. The ham handed 80% hacks I've seen on Reddit for years in no way can handle this Ghost Gunner tool. For the narrow purpose of making a firearm, I wish I had bought the GG instead of the Grizzly mill.

The Grizzly has served me well and I've made a lot of non-firearm related parts with it. No regrets overall. I found it far superior to using a router to mill an AR lower. I did it both ways. The Grizzly takes more time to set up than using a jig and router but the quality and precision it can deliver is worth the effort to me.
 
brian said:
I also wonder what constitutes "making" the frame? On a P80 80%, as soon as you started drilling or cutting or whatever you had made it a firearm (in the eyes of the law) and it had to be for you, not something you made planning to give/sell to someone else.

For this GhostGunner mill, could a group of friends get together and buy one and then whoever puts the blank in and hits "start" is the builder/owner of that frame? For that matter, could an owner "rent" use of the machine to someone for $50 or whatever to cut the frame following the same idea?
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Also not sure.

In the very early days of 80% AR lowers, there were machine shops that would mill it for you for a fee. This was determined to be running afoul of the law because the third party with the mill/cnc was not a licensed manufacturer with an FFL. So that service quickly ended.

Just a guess... but if a group of friends formed a club of sorts and bought a GG for members to share, that may or may not be legal. I'd get a qualified legal opinion on that. My guess? Not legal. Whoever physically bought the machine would become an unlicensed manufacturer. Even if the group formed a non profit that owned the machine, I believe a license to manufacture firearms would be required.
 
Bongo Lewi said:
It's expensive for sure. I didn't buy a GG because I had no desire to make enough guns to justify the cost. That assumption was wrong.
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If I were to get one, amortizing the cost for me would not be a matter of how many guns I might make. Chances are I would not make that many guns. BUT, I see the "ROI" on the cost being the ABILITY to do it and the intangible yet great value of knowing it pisses off liberals and tyrants. :)

In other words... Why get one? "Because I can" is reason enough to me.
 
k3nny173 said:
Giffords and Everytown for gun safety to name a couple of groups

then all the soros funded DAs jumped in

Google, you will find pages, here are just a couple


https: // oag.dc.gov/release/ag-racine-sues-gun-manufacturer-polymer80


City of Baltimore Reaches Settlement in Polymer80

Secures Strictest Injunctive Terms of Any Jurisdiction In Comparable Suits Mayor Brandon M. Scott announced that Baltimore City has reached a settlement in its lawsuit against Polymer80, the leading manufacturer of 👻gun kits in the United States.
mayor.baltimorecity.gov mayor.baltimorecity.gov



You can probably find Loran Kelley's post stating all this I doubt it was scrubbed from the internet

I am not sure why the links I am posting are breaking
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This is exactly what happened, and it's fucking disgusting to see..
 
brian said:
For this GhostGunner mill, could a group of friends get together and buy one and then whoever puts the blank in and hits "start" is the builder/owner of that frame? For that matter, could an owner "rent" use of the machine to someone for $50 or whatever to cut the frame following the same idea?
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"Build Parties" quickly became no bueno even BEFORE Bidet was elected. The ATF determined that the "purchaser" of the GG, or drillpress/jig, etc. had become an unlicensed "manufacturer" even if others were doing their own work on their own guns with the equipment. The wanton sharing of resources turned it into a "business" and therefore regulated. Having a few trusted buddies over, having a couple beers and letting them use your mill is one thing. But technically, they would all have to do their OWN programming. :rolleyes:
 
Bongo Lewi said:
However, having witnessed the GG mill a lower and having "Dremeled" a dozen or so 80% plastic frames myself I do not agree that the GG is something a monkey can easily do.
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I'm not sure if you participate in any other forums about 80% firearms, but it's obvious to me from the groups I am a member of, that building a functional 80% is just a little more advanced than a monkey is capable of achieving. I know that you and the left like to make it out as simple as something a befuddled old man/monkey in his 80s can do in a matter of minutes, but it's been my experience that most people who buy into that theory and attempt the process fail to understand why their frame with the oblong holes and pounded in pins won't go bang.

Some actually succeed in making it go bang, but then can't understand why it acts as a single shot rather than the rapid fire gat they've been led to believe could be theirs with a couple Benjamins and a few minutes work.
I will concede that your experience as an engineer may make it seem something a monkey could do, but not everyone is endowed with your magnificent skills.
 
Racer88 said:
If I were to get one, amortizing the cost for me would not be a matter of how many guns I might make. Chances are I would not make that many guns. BUT, I see the "ROI" on the cost being the ABILITY to do it and the intangible yet great value of knowing it pisses off liberals and tyrants. :)

In other words... Why get one? "Because I can" is reason enough to me.
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Those guys have done a terrific job of moving the needle on what their machine can do. And skillfully navigated the regulatory minefield. I hadn't looked at the GG for a long time. I am impressed with the progress they have made.

I've been putting off a 1911 project for two years. Having a mill I dont need the GG to do that. The Grizzly remains more versatile for making whatever you want. Not purpose-built for firearms. There are pros and cons either way.
 
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