Question What is the deal with "everyone" hanging a flashlight off their pistols?

[Bobster]

What is the deal with "everyone" hanging a flashlight off their pistols?

And by "everyone" I mean the majority of guntoobers. Are they just flexing or am I missing something?

I'm on a quest to get a 2011 clone for shooting steel and IPSC, etc. At the top of my budget, I've been diligently doing research and watching dozens of videos. A common denominator is they often have a flashlight hanging off the front.

Firstly, I'm not a fan of weapon-mounted lights. Maybe eventually but for now I don't see the need. Blessed with excellent night-vision, I'd rather scan with the light in my off-hand if/as needed.

One reviewer admitted he didn't need the light either but liked the extra weight it added to the front of the gun. I mean, how much extra mass are we talking?

Is it to be able to use a certain type of holster? Or what?

What type of light is preferred/standardized for holster use? What is a good flashlight molded holster for 2011s that won't break the bank?

 

[Notshawn54]

What is the deal with "everyone" hanging a flashlight off their pistols?

It’s tacit-cool.

I'm on a quest to get a 2011 clone for shooting steel and IPSC, etc.

Do they allow lights in competition? I’ve never competed, so I have no clue.

Is it to be able to use a certain type of holster? Or what?

My situation exactly. I happen to come across a holster for free. It is for a Staccato w/TLR-1 light setup. What a coincidence, I happen to have a spare TLR-1 just laying around. Eventually I’ll get a non light bearing holster.

What type of light is preferred/standardized for holster use? What is a good flashlight molded holster for 2011s that won't break the bank?

For the high speed low drag crowd the Surefure X-300 is still king. Top notch light for sure.
My holster is the LAS Concealment SAYA.
Like I said, I got it for free but they are $85.
Tenicor is one of the top holsters for 2011 guys.

 

[Racer88]

I have one on my "home defense" pistol.

The Streamlight TLR-1 is a workhorse at a good price. Not cheap... but not cheaply-made. For top-of-the-line, the Surefire X300 is reportedly the gold standard at more than double the price of the Streamlight. I've never touched one, so I don't know. But I've got a few Streamlights. They are solid. Bright. No problems at all.

TLR-8 (laser / light combo) on my Shockwave.

But I do not have a light on my EDC.

 

[Racer88]

Surefire vs Streamlight: Battle of the X300 Ultra and TLR-1HL -

Surefire vs Streamlight? These two powerhouse light brands are often put up against each other. But which is better?

gunmagwarehouse.com

 

[no4mk1t]

The nightstand pistol.
Flashlight with green laser combo.

 

[FrankenGlock]

I'm with the others. Have on my nightstand pistol/s. I can also understand if you were in dark areas at night, duty gun, and or your carry gun. With that said, I also feel it has become a tacti cool thing to do as was mentioned. I have very few with mounted flashlights, but almost all have optics.

 

[brian]

I have one on my bump-in-the-night gun as well. It is bright enough that it'll light an area up at low-ready so I can see what is happening without "tagging" someone.

 

[Bobster]

Keep those answers coming!
I did a thing and dropped $60ish at TEMU for investigative purposes... Each item had $3 shipping from different vendors. All had at least 4.5/5 ratings that appeared legit. The "X300" light was about $19, holster kit with spacers about $22 and 8pk batts about $9. Plus tax (~ $3.50) which they shouldn't be charging (ie: gun accessories, FL 2A sales tax holiday) but it would be more effort than it was worth to get a refund. I may mount these on a glockish clone for evaluation seeings I don't have a "2011" yet...



And regarding weight at the front of the gun, they make tungsten CR123A "batteries" that weigh 3oz each. The light takes two of them. They have a small button battery so they still "work" but apparently not for long...



PS: here are pics of the SAYA holster @Notshawn54 linked to.

 

[no4mk1t]

For those that are looking for a custom holster that will accommodate a light/laser, Jimmy is your man. He is a pastor at his day job and a Mod on NFATalk as well. Tell him what you want and he can make it. Check out the pics of his holsters/mag carriers/knife sheaths.

Forge Customs kydex | Frederick CO

Forge Customs kydex, Frederick. 1,075 likes. Forge Customs is dedicated to bringing you the best in Kydex holsters and other firearms products at reasonable prices with a quick turnaround time.

www.facebook.com

 

[Notshawn54]

PS: here are pics of the SAYA holster @Notshawn54 linked to.

Yeah, sorry for not including a pic.

It conceals very well considering the gun has a big ole honkin light on it. It’s also more comfortable than I was anticipating.

 

[Bobster]

For those of you interested in a REAL X300, PSA has them on sale today for $210+. Retail is $342. LINK I put it in my cart just to see the price.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Home defense... mandatory. In a dark home you need to see what you are shooting at. Some will say a weapon mounted light gives away their position. That's nonsense. Ask any pro who does CQB training for military or law enforcement. Sneaking around in the dark and shooting at something you can't see is just plain stupid. Especially if there are others in your home.

On a SWAT or special team? Mandatory. Military CQB? Mandatory. Although some LE agencies insist on the light being separate from a handgun.

Concealed carry? Lights are a sign of a mall ninja. A habit of over-accessorizers. The type who instead of spending money on training just buy shit because it looks cool.

I recall a conversation here a while back. Some twit yammering about a light on his carry gun being essential. Lecturing like he's some kind of gunfighting expert. In reality, he's a bedwetter who takes his status on the WoW leaderboard a bit too seriously.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

I should add that someone who hasn't ever had training on how to clear a room, you don't know what you are doing. Guaranteed. When I first began that type of training many moons ago, just about everyone in the class makes mistakes and gets 'killed'. Or 'kills' one of his or her own team. It's hard when there's light. In a dark space, way harder. It's nothing like TV and the movies!

I recommend taking close quarters/shoot house training. If you do no other tactical training, do that.

I was told a story about a guy who shot his neighbor. The short story is a guy came home from a shift in the middle of the night and saw that his neighbor's garage door was left open. So he went over and closed it as a courtesy. Guy hears it, gets up, shoots him because he thought it was an intruder. All he could see were shadows.

Teenagers are known to sneak out of the house. And back in. Your MIL gets up at 2:00 am and rattles around the house because that's what old ladies do. There's a lot of other scenarios.

 

[Bobster]

For those of you interested in a REAL X300, PSA has the TAN version on sale today for $210+. Retail is $342. LINK

 

[Alex]

I recently took a couple of classes at Gunsite that featured night shoots. Quite a few people showed up with weapon mounted lights - only to be taught how to shoot using a seperate flashlight in the support hand. The reason being they do NOT want any of their students pointing their guns at anything that does not need shot. Per Rule #2. These are posted EVERYWHERE in the facility, even the bathrooms.

We did a shoot house and an outdoor simulator that had no-shoot targets which looked almost like the shoot targets. I eagerly and vigorously shot one of them. I also got yelled at a lot for raising my gun from retention or low ready any time I went around a corner or opened a door. It is pretty reassuring to hide behind a raised gun according to my lizard brain. But that same part of the brain is easily convinced to pull the trigger before the thinking part catches up, hence the rule against pointing the muzzle at an unknown target.

After doing the night pistol shoot the Rangemaster had all the students with weaponlights get back on the line and illuminate the targets, one light at a time so we could observe the quality and quantity each provided, except for the one light that did not work.

Using the shotgun in conjunction with a hand held light was awkward and painful, especially for the peeps with pumps. But a creative Rangemaster can always make things worse. We later got to do the shotgun shoot house, one-handed, using our weak hand only. As in stuff our strong hand under our belt at the small of our back and figure out how to hold, move, shoot, reload and in my case, clear a stovepipe malfunction that cropped up from my tenuous hold of the gun. The instructor had me jam the gun up against a wall using my chest to hold it in place while I fixed and loaded the gun with my now free hand. ️

These exercises are rooted in real world incidents, that one is from the infamous 1986 Miami FBI shootout. The agents were very outgunned, the best option they had was a pump shotgun but the guy with it had his right arm pretty much shot off when it started. He was able to figure out how to use it in his new configuration, to useful effect, and so would we.

Gunsite is a gunfighting school meant for civilians so the goal is to prepare us, not to rise to the level of our training but to make it make it so ingrained that it is impossible for us to fail. There was a heavy emphasis on dealing with malfunctions of all kinds, using some standard easy to practice methods to deal with the situations and get back into the fight as quickly as possible.

So to get back on topic, they explained that most of us can get our hands on a gun and a flashlight pretty easily. They trained us to put the two items to work in harmony. The only place they thought a weapon mounted light was a good idea was on a nightstand and not take the contraption outside of our house. Having walked around for 10 minutes with my gun at low ready makes me not want to hang anything on it just to make it heavier. Try it with your pistol and if that is easy then try it with your shotgun.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

@Alex

Good summary

The pros and cons of professionals (military, LE) having lights mounted on a weapon continue to be hotly debated. The greatest argument against it you cited in your post: You have to point the muzzle at something you want to illuminate.

On the other hand, most civilians who have no military or LE experience do not have the skill or discipline to use a separate light and a gun at the same time. I was trained to use a separate light. But over time have come to favor I favor home defense weapons having lights. I'll repeat again, that it's important to get training and develop the discipline to safely and effectively use a weapon with a light on it.

Outside the home, as you also mentioned, it has no real benefit and the amateur ends up using the gun as a flashlight, which can be a bad thing. This is why some law enforcement agencies don't like weapon lights. Bottom line: A cop should not draw his gun in order to shed light on something.

SWAT and military special ops increasingly use weapon mounted lights.

I have done some walk thru's/practice in my own home in the dark. My preference is to leave the light off and turn it on sparingly using the momentary switch on the light. My habit is to turn the light on before putting my finger on the trigger.

 

[Racer88]

The reason being they do NOT want any of their students pointing their guns at anything that does not need shot.

There is a problem with that concern. It assumes that in order to illuminate the area in front of you that you have to literally point the light (attached to the gun) directly at that area. Of course, it's an assumption, and assumptions are often easily proven incorrect.

You do NOT have to point the light / weapon at the area of concern in order to be able to see it. Especially with today's powerful LED lights. Indirect illumination is very effective. You can bounce the light off the floor (gun is safely aimed down and away from the area of interest), and it will VERY effectively illuminate a large area in front of you.

You have to point the muzzle at something you want to illuminate.

Absolutely and provably false.

Bounce one of today's lights off the floor (or wall or ceiling), and it will light up the entire room.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

There is a problem with that concern. It assumes that in order to illuminate the area in front of you that you have to literally point the light (attached to the gun) directly at that area. Of course, it's an assumption, and assumptions are often easily proven incorrect.

You do NOT have to point the light / weapon at the area of concern in order to be able to see it. Especially with today's powerful LED lights. Indirect illumination is very effective. You can bounce the light off the floor (gun is safely aimed down and away from the area of interest), and it will VERY effectively illuminate a large area in front of you.



Absolutely and provably false.

Bounce one of today's lights off the floor (or wall or ceiling), and it will light up the entire room.

Agree with all of that. Except none of it applies to the stupid or untrained. Who have a majority in Gunland in case you haven't noticed.

I think the spirit of this philosophy about those who point the gun like a flashlight is more about unskilled behavior than what the current capabilities of weapons lights can do. It's also why some LE departments reject weapon lights. Because the majority of cops are also poorly trained.

The average schlub hears something, he instinctively points the light in that direction, which is also the muzzle. If he also has poor trigger discipline, that can end badly. Fear and anxiety increases in darkness. It's easy to make an error in judgement.

Related fun fact: Some of the market leaders have recently disabled the strobe (flashing) mode by default. You can re-enable it but have to follow a few steps to turn that feature on. The original purpose of that function was to temporarily 'blind' or distract an adversary.

 

[Racer88]

The original purpose of that function was to temporarily 'blind' or distract an adversary.

I've long questioned this claim... that a strobe will disorient an adversary. My opinion: I don't think so. It will just tell them your location and while you're waiting for the strobe to "take effect," the bad guy will just shoot you.

 

[Alex]

A couple of things I will offer rebuttals to, take them or leave them.

Yes, bouncing the light off the floor will provide lots of spill. Since we were learning defensive gun use we were taught to think defensively in a situation where an armed and violent enemy has already begun attacking me or somebody in my vicinity. In total darkness what is that violent person going to shoot at first? Most likely any light source that is approaching him.

We were taught what they called the FBI hold, with the light held high and to the side in our support hand. This gives us 2 advantages. The hot spot can go anywhere my hand can pivot to. This provides maximum illumination in the area I most wish to see, rather that at my feet. It also gives the enemy something "less" valuable as a target vs. the light in front of me at low ready. My light also has the potential to ruin my enemy's night vision as it is more likely to blind him by shining into his eyes rather than a 1000 lumen hot spot right in front of me spilling light back on me, and hopefully on my enemy too. If my light shines in the eyes of a bystander I can apologize and move on. If I need to shoot what I see they taught us how to smoothly and efficiently bring the light down underneath the gun to take the shot without muzzling myself.

As an exercise in hand held light appreciation they had us do the outdoor simulator with only our weapon mounted light for illumination, on the shotgun. This location is known as the Donga. It is a narrow, winding arroyo with other drainages coming in on both sides. The targets (and no-shoots!) are tucked into these side drainages. The moonless Arizona dirt has a way of absorbing any reflected light, we had to rely on whatever spill our weaponlight offered both for navigation down the cobblestone strewn bed and to identify our targets. As soon as I began moving I was wishing I could use a hand held light as it would be easier to move it from side to side rather than the 2 foot long boomstick flashlight in my hands. This is where I shot the ¡*#@! out of a no-shoot. Having the light 2 feet higher than the one on my gun would have made identification less challenging. And they purposefully make it a challenge.

The goal is to prepare us for what is likely to be the worst day of our life, where my blood or the blood of a loved one has already been spilled. They give us the mindset and skills to respond to the attacker while not committing any actions that will get me or a bystander killed, or allow me to survive only to be thrown in prison and financially ruined. We are likely to be facing a coward who has the drop on us and disregards all of the Gunsite safety rules while bringing violence down upon others. The law will apply to the defensive gun user once the smoke clears and the normal world reasserts itself. One hundred percent of my shooting experience has been on square ranges facing cardboard targets that all need shot, or gun gaming where speed is the goal. This is actually detrimental to defensive gun use. They talked about "training scars", habits that will get me killed when forced to respond to a violent attack and I experienced how some of those habits asserted themselves during the training.

Gunsite prepares civilians to be their own first responder in the moment when being alert and evasive fails to prevent a violent encounter. The goal is to have the best tools available before that day and to train to respond with whatever tools are at hand when that time comes, not necessarily those same tools. There is a continuum, from best tools to have to less than ideal. At this point in my skill set I would prefer to have a naked handgun and a seperate flashlight. The shotgun is keeping its light and I will pair that with a handheld. I'm going back in March for the next class where there will be more night shoots. I'll let you know if my thoughts on weapon mounted lights change.