$1.25rd .25ACP! :eek:
- Thread starter Bobster
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Not surprising... an unpopular caliber... and a "defense" (presumably HP) round.
When we were looking at guns for my petite daughter, some of the clerks were recommending .380. I declined it because, they are usually very small sub-compact or micro guns, so recoil is actually sharper than a compact 9-mm... and smaller = more difficult to shoot accurately (short sight radius). AND... .380 ammo is scarce and expensive. We were looking for a compact or medium size 9mm.
When we were looking at guns for my petite daughter, some of the clerks were recommending .380. I declined it because, they are usually very small sub-compact or micro guns, so recoil is actually sharper than a compact 9-mm... and smaller = more difficult to shoot accurately (short sight radius). AND... .380 ammo is scarce and expensive. We were looking for a compact or medium size 9mm.
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Depends on what you are going to use the gun for. Learning how to be a better pistol shooter.... 9mm compact or full size makes the most sense. It's the most common platform for handguns today.
380 ammo today is vastly different from what to use to be. There really is no downside for a defensive handgun in 380. There's a persistent falsehood that the 380 round is woefully inadequate. Keyboard commandos who repeat this have likely spent their lives shooting paper four times a year. For half a century 22, 25 and 380 handguns were the civilian standard. European law enforcement carried 380 duty weapons for years. The advantage for 380 is that the guns tend to be smaller and lighter. Recoil is irrelevant. It's defensive weapon, not a target shooter. After shooting the new S&W Bodyguard I am convinced it is the best small, pocketable gun in the market today. Hands down. The wise gun owner chooses the right gun for the job. Not a preference for caliber. Personal defense is not the same as hunting elk, shooting bullseyes, or bowling pins.
Like @Bobster I also saw the ad for Federal's .25 Punch. I have a gaggle of 25 ACP pistols that are collectable pocket guns. Vintage. The 'new' Punch ammo in .25 uses a solid projectile. Would I ever carry a gun in this caliber? I might. Guns in that category are very small. They are made for shooting something very close. This new 25 ACP ammo delivers 875 fps. Similar to a modest airgun or some types of 22LR ammo. Here's a challenge for those who think that's not good enough. Take a typical CO2 pellet gun, point it at your head and pull the trigger. Report back on what it is like being a vegetable. My grandfather used to shoot rabbits in his garden with a 25 Auto. Killed them every time.
It is certain that a lot of gun buyers fantasize about the day they might need to take out a psycho mall or church shooter. Except this happens less often than people who are hit by lightning. Much more common is some derelict walks up to you on a dark street, alleyway or a parking lot. Or an ATM. So close you can smell his breath. I guarantee if you train for that moment the 25 Auto will be effective. Every time. Would the 380 or 9mm be more effective? Sure. So would a 45, 357, 44 or 50 caliber weapon. The bottom line is you don't need the perp's head to explode like a watermelon. You simply need to put some lead (or copper) in a vital organ and its lights out for the bad guy and you live to fight another day.
I never met a gun I didnt like. I can neutralize an attacker with a pellet gun. In short, defense ain't about caliber.
380 ammo today is vastly different from what to use to be. There really is no downside for a defensive handgun in 380. There's a persistent falsehood that the 380 round is woefully inadequate. Keyboard commandos who repeat this have likely spent their lives shooting paper four times a year. For half a century 22, 25 and 380 handguns were the civilian standard. European law enforcement carried 380 duty weapons for years. The advantage for 380 is that the guns tend to be smaller and lighter. Recoil is irrelevant. It's defensive weapon, not a target shooter. After shooting the new S&W Bodyguard I am convinced it is the best small, pocketable gun in the market today. Hands down. The wise gun owner chooses the right gun for the job. Not a preference for caliber. Personal defense is not the same as hunting elk, shooting bullseyes, or bowling pins.
Like @Bobster I also saw the ad for Federal's .25 Punch. I have a gaggle of 25 ACP pistols that are collectable pocket guns. Vintage. The 'new' Punch ammo in .25 uses a solid projectile. Would I ever carry a gun in this caliber? I might. Guns in that category are very small. They are made for shooting something very close. This new 25 ACP ammo delivers 875 fps. Similar to a modest airgun or some types of 22LR ammo. Here's a challenge for those who think that's not good enough. Take a typical CO2 pellet gun, point it at your head and pull the trigger. Report back on what it is like being a vegetable. My grandfather used to shoot rabbits in his garden with a 25 Auto. Killed them every time.
It is certain that a lot of gun buyers fantasize about the day they might need to take out a psycho mall or church shooter. Except this happens less often than people who are hit by lightning. Much more common is some derelict walks up to you on a dark street, alleyway or a parking lot. Or an ATM. So close you can smell his breath. I guarantee if you train for that moment the 25 Auto will be effective. Every time. Would the 380 or 9mm be more effective? Sure. So would a 45, 357, 44 or 50 caliber weapon. The bottom line is you don't need the perp's head to explode like a watermelon. You simply need to put some lead (or copper) in a vital organ and its lights out for the bad guy and you live to fight another day.
I never met a gun I didnt like. I can neutralize an attacker with a pellet gun. In short, defense ain't about caliber.
Agree, of course. But for some reason, there is an assumption at gun stores that women ONLY need tiny little defense guns that fit in their purses. I had to explain multiple times, this is NOT intended for defensive carry. This is going to be primarily a range gun that will be used to learn pistol marksmanship. It could also be used for home defense, of course.
Also agree. I wasn't arguing the effectiveness of the caliber (I know many do, as you said). My primary concern was cost and availability of ammo. For our purposes, we want her to be able to practice often / easily / less expensively.
Right. But the gun we were looking for... well... see above.
Cool! Maybe start a thread on your vintage "belly guns" with photos! The closest thing I have is a .380 Colt Pony Pocketlite.
Yep.
Even if it's not "lights out," there is a psychological "stop" for most garden variety thugs.
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Oh yea. The average counter guy at an LGS was likely selling cars or women's shoes a month before. Totally agree their point ov view with selling to or for women is self protection. It doesn't occur to them a woman might want to learn and practice marksmanship. I have mentioned before a former GF was DEA. She was an extraordinary pistol shooter. Cuban ancestry. At the time, she was way better than I was. I had little to no experience in defensive shooting at that stage in life.
The crotch shot is an underrated zone. That's mostly psychological.
True. Rest assured a head shot in any caliber is likely to be fatal. They all have enough velocity to penetrate the skull. Even the much maligned 25ACP. Anyplace else, it's going to give the bad guy a painful ouchie.
The crotch shot is an underrated zone. That's mostly psychological.
Easiest way to take the fight out of a thug is to shoot his dick off...
I had a little Raven 25, chrome with white grips, like new in box. Given to me. Shot a box/50 out of it and it was small pizza box accurate at 7yds.
Including the index in the trigger hole, I could fit about 2-1/2 fingers on it. Someone offered me $150 at a gun show and away it went. Looked like pic below.
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I will post some pocket guns. Several 25's. Also a Minx in 22 short.
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I have a Beretta Tomcat in .25ACP. I don't know why I'd ever carry it, when my CM9 is almost the same size and carries the same capacity of 9mm. But if I HAD to carry it, I'd certainly stick with solids to get the best penetration I could. And I'd feel better carrying a .25ACP than being unarmed.
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I see those Ravens all the time on GoneBroker. Usually overhyped and overpriced. Rare! Collectible! <sigh>Easiest way to take the fight out of a thug is to shoot his dick off...
I had a little Raven 25, chrome with white grips, like new in box. Given to me. Shot a box/50 out of it and it was small pizza box accurate at 7yds.
They were very popular. As were many other tiny 25 ACP pistols. They went out of fashion after the GCA declared many of them "Saturday Night Specials". You used to be able to get many of them thru mail order. Those were the days.