124 vs 147-gr HP 9-mm ammo for SD?

Racer88

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My previous thread was about +P and +P+.

What about bullet weights? Pros and cons of lighter vs heavier?

Go!
 
Curious to see how responses are for this one, not so much on the SD question as much as bullet weight in general. I have pretty much gone after 115gr ball 9mm for standard practice if not HPs for carry and recently picked up some 124gr ball to try out as it was one sale. Always looked at the 147gr as a sub sonic option for use with a suppressor. Sort of wondering as opposed to a +P +P+ option for more velocity, how folks think of using a heavier grain slug vs a faster lighter slug. Despite starting out with .357 magnums, I've been very respectful of the .45 ACP. Not only are the 1911's just a great feel in the hand but, as my friend put it, "Nothing beats a flying ashtray" (230 gr HP). I start to wonder about over penetration with faster/lighter weight loads. Does a heavier/slower bullet maybe equate to quicker takedown in most cases?
 
Does a heavier/slower bullet maybe equate to quicker takedown in most cases?
I'm thinking the heavier/slower rounds do normally lead to a faster take down on the premises of larger permanent wound channel, higher initial energy transfer on impact, and the larger diameter & slower speed leave less chance of over penetration. At least that's my premise as to why I carry 10mm Auto and just learned to control/manage the heavier recoil
 
I'm thinking the heavier/slower rounds do normally lead to a faster take down on the premises of larger permanent wound channel, higher initial energy transfer on impact, and the larger diameter & slower speed leave less chance of over penetration. At least that's my premise as to why I carry 10mm Auto and just learned to control/manage the heavier recoil

But I'm talking about within the same caliber... in this case, 9-mm.
 
I'd imagine the same principle would apply towards the heavier bullet. I'd think that the heavier bullet my do better against thicker barriers. Such as automotive glass, thick jackets, denim, maybe even a car door.
 
For me it falls into what are your needs are determine what bullet you feel comfortable with.
All of my shooting is for practice and defense. I use 115 target rounds for both. This is what I carry, I am use to the lighter weight bullet, I am use to the recoil of my pistol with target loads.
The way I look at the carry bullet weight is, that it doesn't matter if you can knock the bad guy off his feet as much as hitting him the first time and be fast enough to take a second shot if needed. Concealed carry is going to be a close up and fast shooting so the feel and to repeat that feel you have with your pistol is the important part because in this scenario you don't really use sights it is more of a point and shoot so being able to do this consistently is the key. Think about throwing darts, you get use to using one weigh and change you have to adjust for the different weight. Same with bullet weight, so whatever you feel best with should be what you are practicing with.

Now if you are talking about the zombie apocalypse or being in a war zone, I would be carrying my 45acp 230 grain HP for knock down but again this is what I have been shooting for years and have a feel for this round as a side arm.

This is just my thoughts and feels good for me. This is something that you have to decide for yourself.
 
For me it falls into what are your needs are determine what bullet you feel comfortable with.
All of my shooting is for practice and defense. I use 115 target rounds for both. This is what I carry, I am use to the lighter weight bullet, I am use to the recoil of my pistol with target loads.
The way I look at the carry bullet weight is, that it doesn't matter if you can knock the bad guy off his feet as much as hitting him the first time and be fast enough to take a second shot if needed. Concealed carry is going to be a close up and fast shooting so the feel and to repeat that feel you have with your pistol is the important part because in this scenario you don't really use sights it is more of a point and shoot so being able to do this consistently is the key. Think about throwing darts, you get use to using one weigh and change you have to adjust for the different weight. Same with bullet weight, so whatever you feel best with should be what you are practicing with.

Now if you are talking about the zombie apocalypse or being in a war zone, I would be carrying my 45acp 230 grain HP for knock down but again this is what I have been shooting for years and have a feel for this round as a side arm.

This is just my thoughts and feels good for me. This is something that you have to decide for yourself.

Federal HST comes in 124 and 147-gr weights. I've not seen HP ammo in 115-gr from any of the big players.
 
I carry HST 124gr +P, a lot easier to get 124gr target ammo vs 147gr target ammo.
 
Really only talking about 23 grains weight difference. But I prefer to carry 124gr +P for the sizable difference in muzzle energy.
 
Federal HST comes in 124 and 147-gr weights. I've not seen HP ammo in 115-gr from any of the big players.
This is a good discussion of defense ammo, IMO. FWIW, I carry the HST in 124gr and 124+P (different mags), but wouldn't hesitate to carry the HST in 147 either. The only other load I currently consider is the 124gr (standard and +P) Gold Dot.
 
If you can still find the information, the cadaver test around 1900 and then the fiasco with goats. Think some of the information is in the 1968 world of small arms.
Considering what Ben Franklin did with dead bodies, shooting a couple of them seems tame, but these are the times we live in
 
I gravitate towards heavy projectiles, being a .45 ACP enthusiast. Never carried a 9 for defense, but man did my favorite SMG back in the 90's love those 147 FMJs with the small flat point. It would send bowling pins flying in matches. We did one team competition, three shooters, 9 pins at 20 yards, a final pin at 50 yards to stop the clock. All three of us were using Beretta 12s (an open-bolt gun, for those unfamiliar, with around a 650 RPM cyclic rate similar to a full-sized UZI) w/the 147 gr. flat points. I believe we cleared in pins in right around 3 seconds and I don't think any of us fired more that 12-15 rounds on FA. We each took 3 pins, tapped off three 3 round bursts, then all of us whacked the stop pin at the same time. I miss those days of cheap MGs and cheap ammo.
 
Federal HST comes in 124 and 147-gr weights. I've not seen HP ammo in 115-gr from any of the big players.
Years ago these were the loads border patrol carried and used



I’ve still got most of a case of the 9BPLE ammo. BPLE stands for Border Patrol Law Enforcement
It’s quite stiff.

The progression of Federal’s JHP rounds led to the Hi-Shok round

Which eventually became the 124gr Hydra-Shok
Which eventually became and is now the HST load
 
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Here's a really cool page by Lucky Gunner that tested and compared various loads. They are presented in a nice interactive chart. Interestingly, it would appear the standard load HST 124-gr is an excellent performer, as is the HST 147-gr. The 124-gr rounds hovered near the >18" over-penetration boundary. The 147-gr rounds were pretty much square in the 12"-18" Goldilocks penetration zone.

It would also appear that the standard loads perform better than the +P loads in the HST rounds, with the +P loads over-penetrating.
HST-124-vs-147.jpg


To see all the loads tested:
 
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Hi everyone, hope all are doing excellent! I'm the odd man out it would seem. During my Armed Tactical Security days I carried 115gr +p+ Gold Dot in my Glock 19, 147gr +p HST in my Glock 17. I all came down to the job site or barrier potential. Those little +p+ Gold Dot although snappy were accurate and soon were charged to .357sig velocities. I switched all my handgun ammo to the most recent generation of Winchester Ranger T, 9mm is their 127gr +p+. we all remember the failure to expand issues with Ranger t, mostly the 9mm 127gr +p+, resulted caused by dull (peddle stamps?) put the skives in the projectiles
This new generation stuff works amazing. This is not SPAM! I devoted and continue to evaluate various "defense rounds" shoot shooting in the desert into water jugs, wet pack all of which has at least a thick leather jacket and pork ribs.
HST; Gold Dot, can't go wrong, I just fell in love with new generation Ranger T. The 230gr for .45 ACP is a beast.
 
we all remember the failure to expand issues with Ranger t, mostly the 9mm 127gr +p+, resulted caused by dull (peddle stamps?) put the skives in the projectiles
This new generation stuff works amazing.
Hmmm... I have 300 rounds of Ranger T +P+ 127 in my inventory that I bought many years ago. I do not "remember" any reports of failure to expand. And of course, I've never tested them. Was there a subsequent generation of Ranger T that corrected the problem? (I wasn't quite able to follow what you're saying there.) If so... How can I tell which one I have?
 
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