.45 ACP in Today's Semi-Auto World

[Bongo Lewi]

Fascinating. I’m not sure I’d agree on their claim of stopping power. I’m not even 100% what they mean by that.

Pistol wounds cause bleeding, which causes death if it isn’t stopped in time. Apart from a head shot, which stops neurological function, there is only one more cause of death from a bullet. Thats hitting the heart and damaging it.

Bigger holes equal more bleeding.

It almost reads like they did not factor in hollow points. Or solid copper/composite projectiles that have a hydraulic effect on tissue.

Modern hollow point ammo and the solid copper spinners weren't around when the Colonel was alive and active. They both make a pretty nasty wound channel. The Bongo Ministry teaches shot placement - two rounds in the eight inch center mass - is far more important than bullet type. Thats the real definition of stopping power in my opinion.

 

[Alex]

If Paul Harrell was still doing ammo testing videos I would send him a box of these, some bonded hollow point and Underwood to shoot at his Meat Target.

If you have any of those rounds left and a micrometer, I would measure them and see if they conform to specs. I reloaded in the past and, if the crimp or overall length was off, the rounds gave me problems. A bad crimp can bulge the case mouth or leave too much rim exposed which can snag.

Here's measurements on 10 cartridges:

.4705 1.2670
.4715 1.2605
.4710 1.2655
.4705 1.2630
.4700 1.2660
.4710 1.2665
.4705 1.2640
.4710 1.2650
.4710 1.2650
.4710 1.2600

I don't reload so I don't know if those are good measurements or not.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

I have a beef with shooting meat as a test. You can eyeball the damage but not measure it reliably. It is entertaining though.

Ballistic gelatin is pretty much the accepted scientific measure of bullet performance. You can observe and precisely measure the wound channel and bullet trajectory thru a material proven to be similar density to the pink squishy stuff inside us. It also guarantees consistency in measuring one round vs. another. That's impossible with a rump roast wrapped in a denim jacket.

Hitting bone… Modern bullets with adequate velocity go right thru. Some solid copper rounds today perform well after going thru auto glass. The larger calibers like a 45, 44, etc can break a large bone clean in half if they hit it right. And keep going.

One of the interesting sides of gundom is the lengths to which loyal members of the 1911 club will go to prove "God's caliber" is the best. I say that being a long time 1911 devotee who has a strong affection for the 45 ACP. I believe a well made (and thus expensive) 1911 remain the finest handguns made. After 100+ years that's really something. Consider the design of complex machines like airplanes and cars 100 years ago. Chainsaws and power hand tools didn't exist. There are so many more examples. Anton Glock took a bunch of cheap-ass stamped metal parts and some plastic, rethinking and revolutionizing how people thought about handgun design. I can recall people commenting that the Gen 1 Glock was not a 'real' gun. Revolver fanbois said semi autos would never be reliable enough for law enforcement. This wasn't because they were dumb or unskilled. People tend to get emotionally invested in what they know. When it comes to people and their beliefs, the only one who likes change is a baby with a dirty diaper.

 

[bkbrno]

SAAMI specs in this doc. https://saami.org/wp-content/upload...rfire-Pistol-Revolver-Approved-12-13-2022.pdf

Those rounds are within limits. Over crimped by .002" Not enough to worry about, they are still going to headspace just fine. Sometimes, depending on the crimp method, over crimping can cause a bulge behind the crimp. That is what I was thinking might be the situation but I don't see anything like that on those rounds.

Cast lead bullets are .001" larger in diameter that jacketed bullets. I can see a bulge in the case that reflects this. Sometimes you will see the bulge when comparing to factory jacketed bullet rounds. Not an issue. With the barrel out of the slide, the rounds should drop right in the chamber and rattle around. The plunk test. Maybe plunk test factory rounds and these to compare how much room each has. If these rounds are more snug in the chamber, there's your problem.

Simple answer, your pistols don't like these rounds. Don't use them. Or, use it as an excuse to get the 1911 you always wanted.

Could be time for a new recoil spring if you have a lot of rounds through them.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Ditto BKB. Get a 1911 and enjoy that amazing trigger. The Tisas and Girsan are outstanding copies of the classic and are very affordable.

You can’t go wrong with Rock either.

All available in 9mm but you won’t be able to continue your ammo study. I’d like to hear if the ammo you acquired lives up to the makers claims with a 1911.

 

[Alex]

The D&L cartridges plunk and rattle the same as the Blazer Brass. They seem to be well made cartridges, just not suitable for this particular application.

Is something wrong with me? I have no desire to own a 1911. Besides, I already have too many guns... and another frame on the way. I've bought guns for some pretty slim reasons, so far it has not been "to shoot some ammo I already have".

I have shot a 1911 before, a friend's Kimber. It seemed nice but that was also before I really started shooting. He had the bumper sticker, "45 acp. Because shooting twice is just silly".

Speaking of, here's a snarky but data driven vid on pros and cons of 45acp in Glocks.


View: https://youtu.be/8MPNGDGBcpY?si=u3Eb884RkhIBngLz

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Is something wrong with me? I have no desire to own a 1911. Besides, I already have too many guns... and another frame on the way. I've bought guns for some pretty slim reasons, so far it has not been "to shoot some ammo I already have".

You said you have too many guns. There may be something wrong with you.

I bought a Desert Eagle because I didn't have any 50AE ammo. I felt as if that were an empty space in my life that needed to be filled.

 

[BeerHunter]

Fascinating. I’m not sure I’d agree on their claim of stopping power. I’m not even 100% what they mean by that.

Pistol wounds cause bleeding, which causes death if it isn’t stopped in time. Apart from a head shot, which stops neurological function, there is only one more cause of death from a bullet. Thats hitting the heart and damaging it.

Bigger holes equal more bleeding.

It almost reads like they did not factor in hollow points. Or solid copper/composite projectiles that have a hydraulic effect on tissue.

Modern hollow point ammo and the solid copper spinners weren't around when the Colonel was alive and active. They both make a pretty nasty wound channel. The Bongo Ministry teaches shot placement - two rounds in the eight inch center mass - is far more important than bullet type. Thats the real definition of stopping power in my opinion.

Am also skeptical of many of their claims! Also, although Col. Cooper accomplished an awful lot a lot of great things in his day, not everything he said or wrote can be taken as absolute "gospel," even for the 1911 handgun as the D&L website seems to.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

The D&L cartridges plunk and rattle the same as the Blazer Brass. They seem to be well made cartridges, just not suitable for this particular application.

Is something wrong with me? I have no desire to own a 1911. Besides, I already have too many guns... and another frame on the way. I've bought guns for some pretty slim reasons, so far it has not been "to shoot some ammo I already have".

I have shot a 1911 before, a friend's Kimber. It seemed nice but that was also before I really started shooting. He had the bumper sticker, "45 acp. Because shooting twice is just silly".

Speaking of, here's a snarky but data driven vid on pros and cons of 45acp in Glocks.


View: https://youtu.be/8MPNGDGBcpY?si=u3Eb884RkhIBngLz

Nobody needs a Glock either. HiPoint gets at the job done. Under $200, lifetime no questions asked guarantee, never fails to go bang.

Nobody needs a Mercedes-Maybach, first class plane tickets, 27 year old Scotch, Screaming Eagle 2015 Cabernet. Or a 47 foot DuFour (see pic). But all that is pretty awesome.

Once you shoot a Nighthawk, Dan Wesson custom or perhaps a Cabot, you immediately know why it's expensive. Guaranteed shit eating grin on the first round.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Am also skeptical of many of their claims! Also, although Col. Cooper accomplished an awful lot a lot of great things in his day, not everything he said or wrote can be taken as absolute "gospel," even for the 1911 handgun as the D&L website seems to.

Exactly. I have the utmost respect for the Colonel and Gunsite. Been there twice. But I am not one of those who lean toward celebrity or jock worship. I am probably missing the chemical in my brain that enables idolatry.

 

[Notshawn54]

Is something wrong with me? I have no desire to own a 1911.

Short answer, Yes.

Just kidding. While the 1911 is my favorite platform, if we all liked the same thing life would be pretty boring. I also like redheads. My apologies to any non-ginger ladies reading this.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Short answer, Yes.

Just kidding. While the 1911 is my favorite platform, if we all liked the same thing life would be pretty boring. I also like redheads. My apologies to any non-ginger ladies reading this.

Like 'em all. Guns and women. That's been my problem since I discovered both early in life.

I knew I liked girls because of Emma Peale on The Avengers. Other Bond girls from my formative years too.

My first gun was a 20 gauge Remington Model 31 pump. A gift from my uncle who taught me about guns and hunting. That Browning design is definitely in the Shotgun Hall of Fame. I needed money as student and sold it. Wish I hadn't.

 

[Notshawn54]

Exactly. I have the utmost respect for the Colonel and Gunsite. Been there twice. But I am not one of those who lean toward celebrity or jock worship. I am probably missing the chemical in my brain that enables idolatry.

Like 'em all. Guns and women. That's been my problem since I discovered both early in life.

I knew I liked girls because of Emma Peale on The Avengers. Other Bond girls from my formative years too.
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My first gun was a 20 gauge Remington Model 31 pump. A gift from my uncle who taught me about guns and hunting. That Browning design is definitely in the Shotgun Hall of Fame. I needed money as student and sold it. Wish I hadn't.

I think you may have a couple years on me but I do see the appeal of Emma.

For me it was Sally Field in Smokey and the Bandit and Jaclyn Smith. I know, not redheads. That affliction came on in my 30’s.

Had to buy my first gun, Remington 870 12ga. Still have it 30 some odd years later. Had to use it on my last duck hunting trip when my new model Browning A5 took a crap. First pistol was a Colt Gold Cup. Got rid of it after my first Kimber would shoot groups inside of what that Colt Would do.

 

[BeerHunter]

Like BL, I loved watching The Avengers specifically because of Emma Peale, Get Smart because of Barbara Feldon (Agent 99) and what red-blooded young lad wouldn't enjoy watching all those beautiful Bond girls? When a character's name is "Pussy Galore" a young boy pays attention!