Breaking! A T F "clarifies" rule on 80% frames. Is this is the end?!?

[Racer88]

So now they're saying that EVEN if there is no jig, tools, instructions, etc... JUST the 80% frame... IS A GUN that must be serialized.

ATF Issues Open Letter to FFLs to Clarify Application of “Frame or Receiver” Final Rule on Certain Semiautomatic Pistol Frames | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

WASHINGTON – The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives issued an open letter today to all federal firearms licensees regarding the application of Final Rule 2021-05F, Definition of “Frame or Receiver” and Identification of Firearms, on partially complete Polymer80, Lone Wolf, and...

www.atf.gov

This definition of “readily” applies to each classification of a partially complete frame or receiver under this rule, whether sold alone or as part of a kit; therefore, even without any associated templates, jigs, molds, equipment, tools, instructions, guides, or marketing materials, these partially complete pistol frames are “frames” and “firearms” as defined in the GCA and its implementing regulations.

FUCK!

 

[Miltonboro]

AAAAH!

I assume this applies to both pistol and AR lowers?

 

[Racer88]

AAAAH!

I assume this applies to both pistol and AR lowers?

Hmmmm... Interesting that THIS letter specifies pistols.

I'm sure another letter will be forthcoming.... about rifles. Like is common with ALL of their edicts... I'm sure it was an oversight. I highly doubt they would except rifles from this "rule."

 

[Miltonboro]

Seems like everyone has 80% AR lowers back in stock now while our P80 pistol lowers have been reduced to just a few sellers. Hope at least the AR's stay a thing. More wait and see I guess..

 

[Racer88]

Alphabet agencies effectively making law by moving the goalposts. The EPA decision by the SCOTUS should prevent this. But it seems neither our Constitution nor Supreme Court rulings have ANY teeth. They can be ignored at will, apparently.

I'm getting very very worried about this country.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

So this "rule" would be enforced an all new sales. or all 80% frames in circulation, including competed frames?

 

[Racer88]

So this "rule" would be enforced an all new sales. or all 80% frames in circulation, including competed frames?

It would seem it would be enforced on all sales since the original rule went into effect. That's just my speculation. And that could mean trouble for those who bought "blanks" without jigs after the rule date.

 

[USApat]

AAAAH!

I assume this applies to both pistol and AR lowers?

@Miltonboro
Remember that there is a case in Texas meandering through the courts which gave a couple of companies the right to sell 80% lowers until the case is heard. The judge allowing the sale of lowers did not apply his ruling to all companies, but we have seen that many companies are selling AR 80% lowers now. So, I have no idea if the additional companies filed as friend of the court, or issued or intervened in a joinder to that Texas suit that would somehow allow these additional companies to sell lowers.

Further, the ATF is due back in court on the 28th of December. I would have to jog my brain to remember if that is related to the Texas case, but I do believe it is. My understanding is that the ATF's goal was to have a final ruling on the Pistol Brace rules and SBR's prior to the 28th court date. It is now past 5pm on the 27th, and to my knowledge, there is no ruling released on the Pistol Brace rule prior to their court date tomorrow.

I imagine we will know a lot more tomorrow. But, the lack of information in today's press release regarding AR lowers is probably hinging on the case(s) mentioned in the first paragraph. At least that's my guess/assumption. It is all a cluster-f*ck unconstitutional mess.

 

[Pern]

Alphabet agencies effectively making law by moving the goalposts. The EPA decision by the SCOTUS should prevent this. But it seems neither our Constitution nor Supreme Court rulings have ANY teeth. They can be ignored at will, apparently.

I'm getting very very worried about this country.

It’s the lies that will take us down. Too many people in this country prefer to be lied to, they don’t demand the truth.
It’s the lies that will destroys us.

 

[Racer88]

View attachment 8292

That ship has LONG since sailed. The majority have been VERY effectively brainwashed. And I don't mean that euphemistically or hyperbolically. I mean it in the literal and scientific sense.

 

[GSW10]

That ship has LONG since sailed. The majority have been VERY effectively brainwashed. And I don't mean that euphemistically or hyperbolically. I mean it in the literal and scientific sense.

A great deal of Americans have indeed been brainwashed, I agree, but worse I think is that the MAJORITY of them haven't even been listening -they just don't care. Neither truth nor lie is the bloop-bleep-blopping on their cell-phone screen in front of their face, and if it isn't the screen in front of their face, it just doesn't matter.

 

[Racer88]

A great deal of Americans have indeed been brainwashed, I agree, but worse I think is that the MAJORITY of them haven't even been listening -they just don't care. Neither truth nor lie is the bloop-bleep-blopping on their cell-phone screen in front of their face, and if it isn't the screen in front of their face, it just doesn't matter.

Yep. I was just saying that to my wife today. Most Americans DO. NOT. CARE. They are WILLFULLY oblivious and ignorant.

 

[brian]

Alphabet agencies effectively making law by moving the goalposts. The EPA decision by the SCOTUS should prevent this. But it seems neither our Constitution nor Supreme Court rulings have ANY teeth. They can be ignored at will, apparently.

I'm getting very very worried about this country.

Ignored at will or after a ruling that isn't liked, just re-word something and pass it again to be re-litigated. I agree that it is all very concerning.

 

[Racer88]

Ignored at will or after a ruling that isn't liked, just re-word something and pass it again to be re-litigated. I agree that it is all very concerning.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This was the 20,000th post!

 

[Michele]

Anonymous Technique of Firearm fab. Constitution takes precedence.

 

[Pettypete]

Infringers gonna infringe. I knew it was o ly a matter of time since the rule that this would come about. Just didn't think it would be this soon.


Makes me wonder if they'll Try to make it retroactive.

 

[USApat]

Three days ago:

 

[gandrfab]

View attachment 8292
It’s the lies that will take us down. Too many people in this country prefer to be lied to, they don’t demand the truth.
It’s the lies that will destroys us.

I would guess almost half the country thinks all guns are registered.
From decades of sitcoms mentioning guns are registered.

 

[Racer88]

I would guess almost half the country thinks all guns are registered.
From decades of sitcoms mentioning guns are registered.

Yep. Their eyes get wide when I tell them none of my guns are "registered."

The same people also truly believe that guns can just "go off."

And that "assault weapons" and "ghost guns" are actually a thing. Even this ATF "letter" mentions so-called "ghost guns."

 

[NavyVet83]

Yep. Their eyes get wide when I tell them none of my guns are "registered."

The same people also truly believe that guns can just "go off."

Im glad to see I'm not the only one that gets those reactions. Lol.. I've had people try to get into screamo/dick waving arguments with me over my 80% builds being illegal because they don't have serial numbers. I've learned to just say, "Ok, yeah you're right. To prison I go", and walk off. Nowadays I just try to avoid those type of conversations all together.