First Shots

[Curmudgeon]

Printed a couple frames off of my CC, built them out, and let them sit for almost a month. Finally got out to run some live ammo through them and got mixed results. The first one is a 43X from AA13 that I printed in PLA Matte and annealed packed in sand for 4 hours. Not really surprised that it only lasted 3 rounds. I printed it more for the hand fit test than to build out but since I have a 43 slide I figured why not.
The second one is the same file that I stretched out to cover the underside of my 48 slide and printed in PA612CF. Didn't anneal, just gave it time to re-absorb moisture from the air. It ran 31 rounds flawlessly and will now go under the light to inspect for any cracks. If none are found I'll schedule it for another 50 rounds this week.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

If the frame breaks while shooting, how you make the gun safe after that... getting a round out of the chamber safely?

This is why I haven't made the leap to printed frames. I've concluded, based on my limited skill in 3d printing, that you can make a sturdy 3d gun but it wont have the ergonomics of a factory gun. Reference the odd looking Ghostgunner models.

 

[Racer88]

If the frame breaks while shooting, how you make the gun safe after that... getting a round out of the chamber safely?

This is why I haven't made the leap to printed frames. I've concluded, based on my limited skill in 3d printing, that you can make a sturdy 3d gun but it wont have the ergonomics of a factory gun. Reference the odd looking Ghostgunner models.

If you think about it from an engineering and materials science perspective... 3D printing cannot ever possibly have the same properties as an injection molded, forged, or cast frame. And that's why I would be more interested in 3D milling from solid billet blanks. Though the issue with milling is that certain structures cannot be milled inside the frame (like can be with 3D printing). Because of that, milling may require a 2-piece (clamshell) bolted frame.

Alternatively... milling a partially finished cast or molded frame.

 

[Racer88]

If the frame breaks while shooting, how you make the gun safe after that... getting a round out of the chamber safely?

Very carefully!

 

[Curmudgeon]

If the frame breaks while shooting, how you make the gun safe after that... getting a round out of the chamber safely?

This is why I haven't made the leap to printed frames. I've concluded, based on my limited skill in 3d printing, that you can make a sturdy 3d gun but it wont have the ergonomics of a factory gun. Reference the odd looking Ghostgunner models.

In this break, the slide didn't eject the spent case. I would suspect that in most breaks that I have seen on video that that is the case as well. There was enough frame to rack the slide back and remove the empty shell but if there wasn't one could remove the pins and disassemble the gun to remove a shell, fired or not, from the chamber. Frames breaking are also one of the reasons the first few rounds are one in the gun at a time. Then two to make sure you didn't accidentally build a NFA. Then full magazine but still looking for cracks after every shot. If by the end of the second magazine everything is still looking good I run the third one double tap and take the gun down for complete inspection.
I didn't expect the frame that broke to last long but I didn't expect it to break on the third round either. It was printed in the weakest material you can use. I had one that someone else printed for me that lasted about 350 rounds before showing cracks in the frame.That one was done in PLA+ but not annealed.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

If you think about it from an engineering and materials science perspective... 3D printing cannot ever possibly have the same properties as an injection molded, forged, or cast frame. And that's why I would be more interested in 3D milling from billet blanks. Though the issue with milling is that certain structures cannot be milled inside the frame (like can be with 3D printing). Because of that, milling may require a 2-piece (clamshell) bolted frame.

On a hobby-grade printer, I’d agree. Never going to be good enough. Not any time soon anyway.

The price of cnc machines is within reach of the serious hobbyist now. But it takes a lot of time and effort to learn how to use it. You also have to consider how many guns you plan on making for your own use.

I have a vertical mill. With a proper jig I could make a 1911 from an incomplete frame. Not from a block of aluminum or stainless.

 

[Curmudgeon]

If you think about it from an engineering and materials science perspective... 3D printing cannot ever possibly have the same properties as an injection molded, forged, or cast frame. And that's why I would be more interested in 3D milling from solid billet blanks. Though the issue with milling is that certain structures cannot be milled inside the frame (like can be with 3D printing). Because of that, milling may require a 2-piece (clamshell) bolted frame.

Alternatively... milling a partially finished cast or molded frame.

No, I don't believe that a printed frame will ever be as strong as an injection molded frame. There are, however, examples of printed frames that have surpassed 2000 rounds without falling.
How many rounds before someone considers calling a gun ready for EDC? I don't know. That's a question for each person to answer for themselves.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

No, I don't believe that a printed frame will ever be as strong as an injection molded frame. There are, however, examples of printed frames that have surpassed 2000 rounds without falling.
How many rounds before someone considers calling a gun ready for EDC? I don't know. That's a question for each person to answer for themselves.

There have been times when I shot 2000 rounds in a month.

 

[Curmudgeon]

On a hobby-grade printer, I’d agree. Never going to be good enough. Not any time soon anyway.

The price of cnc machines is within reach of the serious hobbyist now. But it takes a lot of time and effort to learn how to use it. You also have to consider how many guns you plan on making for your own use.

I have a vertical mill. With a proper jig I could make a 1911 from an incomplete frame. Not from a block of aluminum or stainless.

I wouldn't say that it will not be good enough. I don't expect it to last as long as an injection molded frame but how long it CAN last remains to be seen. I know some people don't trust 3D prints to last and can come up with every explanation as to why, but there were people who felt the same way about polymer frames.

As far as milling a frame from a blank I would like to be able to do that. Maybe some day I will be able to afford a mill but I think it would take me a year or so to machine it out and still have a bunch of hand smoothing to do plus the hand fitting of all the moving parts.

 

[Curmudgeon]

There have been times when I shot 2000 rounds in a month.

I don't shoot that much and do have a few hand guns to choose from.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

I don't shoot that much and do have a few hand guns to choose from.

It's an interesting mental exercise to experiment with printing frames but I can't abide by a firearm that fails so easily and unpredictably. That's just me.

On the other hand, something like the Decker kit (see pic) intrigues me. I wouldn't depend on it for anything and certainly it's not for carry. But it might be interesting to experiment with.

 

[Racer88]

No, I don't believe that a printed frame will ever be as strong as an injection molded frame. There are, however, examples of printed frames that have surpassed 2000 rounds without falling.
How many rounds before someone considers calling a gun ready for EDC? I don't know. That's a question for each person to answer for themselves.

Yeah... to me, 2000 rounds is nothing. That would be a half-dozen or so range trips, and it would be done.

I've got 9,200 rounds through my P80 EDC, and it's not quite 3 years old. I also have a "few" other guns to choose from at the range (often my dilemma which to bring!).

My round count varies a fair bit from year to year.

2025: 2,515 rounds fired (so far)
2024: 3,624
2023: 7,640
2022: 6,692
2021: 2,763
2020: 1,781

 

[Curmudgeon]

Yeah... to me, 2000 rounds is nothing. That would be a half-dozen or so range trips, and it would be done.

I've got 9,200 rounds through my P80 EDC, and it's not quite 3 years old.

OK, 2000 rounds may not be a lot to some people. Unfortunately, not a lot of people keep reporting beyond the first handful of range trips so there's not a bunch of high round count reports out there to see. It's a start though and now that stronger filaments are becoming more affordable we can see what they are capable of. Polymer frames were looked down on when they first came out and now they make up the majority of handguns on the market. 3D printed frames will never be that popular unless the .gov outlaws handguns but that doesn't mean that they won't hold up to the round count that the majority of pistol owners shoot. I used to be a 2000 round a year shooter which is probably still more than the average handgun owner. Now I am around the 5000 round/year mark so with the number of handguns I have to play/train with then 2000 rounds would make this one about 2 years if it only lasts that long. If I have to reprint the frame in 2 years I don't have a problem with that. Plus there will most likely be better materials and printer profiles to use by then. Who knows, it may last 10,000, or it may not make it to 1000. Time will tell and that is what will be used by others to decide for or against printing frames. Glad that I can help.

 

[Racer88]

OK, 2000 rounds may not be a lot to some people. Unfortunately, not a lot of people keep reporting beyond the first handful of range trips so there's not a bunch of high round count reports out there to see. It's a start though and now that stronger filaments are becoming more affordable we can see what they are capable of. Polymer frames were looked down on when they first came out and now they make up the majority of handguns on the market. 3D printed frames will never be that popular unless the .gov outlaws handguns but that doesn't mean that they won't hold up to the round count that the majority of pistol owners shoot. I used to be a 2000 round a year shooter which is probably still more than the average handgun owner. Now I am around the 5000 round/year mark so with the number of handguns I have to play/train with then 2000 rounds would make this one about 2 years if it only lasts that long. If I have to reprint the frame in 2 years I don't have a problem with that. Plus there will most likely be better materials and printer profiles to use by then. Who knows, it may last 10,000, or it may not make it to 1000. Time will tell and that is what will be used by others to decide for or against printing frames. Glad that I can help.

Yeah... most gun owners probably don't shoot 2000 in a lifetime, realistically.

And it's interesting stuff that will get better, as you said. I wonder if they could apply laser-sintering to polymers like they have done with metal printing.

 

[Bobster]

I have a vertical mill.

Curious if that will run off the grid...

 

[Curmudgeon]

Well I contacted the manufacturer and a new frame is on its way. This time in PA612CF15.
I'm contemplating putting this one through the annealing and forced re-hydration recommend by Polymaker.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Curious if that will run off the grid...

Of course. It’s only got a 2 hp motor. About 1500 watts. But I wouldn’t consider it essential.

If there were a blackout or a SHTF event, milling something would be low on my list of priorities.

 

[Bobster]

Of course. It’s only got a 2 hp motor. About 1500 watts. But I wouldn’t consider it essential.

BTW, I meant YOUR "off" grid but I think you figured that out. How many watts can you make from the panels during the day?

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Currently 6500 watt inverter. 15kwh Lithium battery, 16 400 watt 48v panels.

 

[Chuck Noris]

Interesting, that split is exactly where the very first frame I printed in PLA split and failed. I've learned a lot since then, and now I only print frames in PA6-CF and anneal after printing. I've changed the print angle, and I don't print "rails up" or "rails down", but on an angle. It provides a better aesthetic, and I honestly haven't had any prints fail so far since that first fiasco. I've shot mainly 9mm and .22 prints, but **fingers crossed**, having a lot of no-fail fun. I wouldn't trust one for an EDC, but that's not the point. Building something that everyone says "I want one of those where did you get it" is enough for me!