Question Has anyone added serial numbers to their builds.

GrowleyMonster said:
Like CountChocula001 or PostToasties007EssentialVitamins or CapnCrunch88 and so on. I have used electro-etching on razors I have made, and chem etching, but recently I bought a 20w laser engraver and I am spoiling for an excuse and the time to break it in.
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80%Bran? ;)

100bran.JPG

What kind of laser?
 
I didn't laser engrave like most people here. What I did was get a small sewing needle and heated up with a lighter. I then made a series of indents in the frame. I have five sets of holes each corresponds to a digit. I made all of my digits six or less and I did that so I could shape each set of indents like a corresponding side of a dice to a specific number. It's hard to describe, but if I showed you a picture, you would understand exactly what I did.

I only did this to my carry. The rest of my builds are unmarked.
 
qvqpvp said:
I didn't laser engrave like most people here. What I did was get a small sewing needle and heated up with a lighter. I then made a series of indents in the frame. I have five sets of holes each corresponds to a digit. I made all of my digits six or less and I did that so I could shape each set of indents like a corresponding side of a dice to a specific number. It's hard to describe, but if I showed you a picture, you would understand exactly what I did.

I only did this to my carry. The rest of my builds are unmarked.
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Hey there @qvqpvp nice to see ya !!
 
In Oregon, because measure 114 that was "voted-in" (high cap mag bans and 'đź‘»gun' bans is on-hold on appeal in the courts, the commie pukes slipped-in very quietly a new bill 2005 that was voted on (by the legislature) and signed by our Gov, this new bill/suppository has BANNED the ownership, possession, sales, or trafficking in and out of state of ANY 'unserialized' firearm. This new "law" is said to be enforceable Sept 1, 2024.

https://www.doj.state.or.us/media-h...nblum-đź‘»guns-will-finally-be-banned-in-oregon/


Anybody owning one of these units the law says must serialize their formerly LEGAL builds by a FFL-holding shop or gunsmith.

First offense is a misdemeanor with a 6,XXX fine, and the second offense is a felony.
 
One Ping Only said:
In Oregon, .... this new bill/suppository has BANNED the ownership, possession, sales, or trafficking in and out of state of ANY 'unserialized' firearm. This new "law" is said to be enforceable Sept 1, 2024.

Anybody owning one of these units the law says must serialize their formerly LEGAL builds by a FFL-holding shop or gunsmith.

First offense is a misdemeanor with a 6,XXX fine, and the second offense is a felony.
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Unconstitutional.

www.reuters.com

Ban on guns with serial numbers removed is unconstitutional -U.S. judge

A federal judge in West Virginia has ruled that a federal ban on possessing a gun with its serial number removed is unconstitutional, the first such ruling since the U.S. Supreme Court dramatically expanded in June.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
One Ping Only said:
In Oregon, because measure 114 that was "voted-in" (high cap mag bans and 'đź‘»gun' bans is on-hold on appeal in the courts, the commie pukes slipped-in very quietly a new bill 2005 that was voted on (by the legislature) and signed by our Gov, this new bill/suppository has BANNED the ownership, possession, sales, or trafficking in and out of state of ANY 'unserialized' firearm. This new "law" is said to be enforceable Sept 1, 2024.

https://www.doj.state.or.us/media-h...nblum-đź‘»guns-will-finally-be-banned-in-oregon/


Anybody owning one of these units the law says must serialize their formerly LEGAL builds by a FFL-holding shop or gunsmith.

First offense is a misdemeanor with a 6,XXX fine, and the second offense is a felony.
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Sounds like they followed CA with their unconstitutional laws… pack sand communists.
 
Well, I did etch one P80 (a 940C) with a Glock style alpha-numeric serial number. With HR 777 still alive in the PA legislature, I've hedged my bets a little and have that option in the tool box. It will probably die in the PA Senate, but should it get passed I wanted to have multiple options. Still in discussion with a local FFL about how this might work should the need arise.

I'm not going to give the pricks the satisfaction of confiscating my property. I'll scrap them myself before submitting to that.
 
Luckily in PA you only need to serialize a PMF if you sell it!
 
flowers9 said:
Luckily in PA you only need to serialize a PMF if you sell it!
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I like to number mine for use in public ranges. If a LEO is there they may look as they are trained and have automatic muscle memory to snoop. 👻 don’t have # so I feel go to go put in public.
 
flowers9 said:
Luckily in PA you only need to serialize a PMF if you sell it!
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Ummm, not quite right, you cannot sell your PFM at all. That's the caveat to the GCA... if you sell your PFM, you are a unlicensed manufacturer who didn't pay the excise tax. So, while you can currently make a PFM in Pennsylvania, you just can't sell it.... no Federal tax paid makes it contraband goods.

However, your heirs can sell it later on.... you kinda satisfy criteria that you made it for personal use with no intent to sell it... your dead and you owned it to the end. So, whoever ended up with your estate can sell it at that point with or without a serial number. If you give it a unique serial number yourself, that might make the process easier for your heirs. That's about the only reason I would consider adding a serial number to one, though the faux markings, as Michelle pointed out, might also be handy to keep from freaking the fudds out at the local range.

I haven't heard anything recent on the law the PA house passed. I am hoping it dies in the PA senate. The uncertainty is gnawing at me... hence I serialized one P80 to see how to do it, and availed myself of two factory serial numbered frames as a backup plan.
 
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clm2112 said:
Ummm, not quite right, you cannot sell your PFM at all. That's the caveat to the GCA... if you sell your PFM, you are a unlicensed manufacturer who didn't pay the excise tax. So, while you can currently make a PFM in Pennsylvania, you just can't sell it.... no Federal tax paid makes it contraband goods.

However, your heirs can sell it later on.... you kinda satisfy criteria that you made it for personal use with no intent to sell it... your dead and you owned it to the end.
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I don't know about PA. But this is not true. You do NOT have to "own it to the end (death)" to indicate or prove that you did not manufacture it specifically for sale (aka "in the business of manufacturing for sale"). I do not believe this is correct and cannot find any such law.

You absolutely can sell a PMF.

1716034496464.png

Homemade Guns: Are They Legal? Must They Be Registered?

Homemade guns made from "đź‘»gun" kits and on 3D printers haven't had to be registered or bear serial numbers under federal law, but the rules may be changing.
www.criminaldefenselawyer.com www.criminaldefenselawyer.com
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From the alphabet agency site:
1716035307650.png


Also, I cannot find any statute requiring serialization of a PMF if it is sold. If you are engaged in the business of making firearms for sale, then you must have the license to manufacture AND you must serialize those firearms you engaged in the business of selling. But I would challenge anyone to reference the FEDERAL law that stipulates a PMF cannot be sold at all or that it must be serialized. I cannot find any such law, regulation, or rule.
 
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Racer88 said:
I don't know about PA. But this is not true. You do NOT have to "own it to the end (death)" to indicate or prove that you did not manufacture it specifically for sale (aka "in the business of manufacturing for sale"). I do not believe this is correct and cannot find any such law.

You absolutely can sell a PMF.

View attachment 19801

Homemade Guns: Are They Legal? Must They Be Registered?

Homemade guns made from "đź‘»gun" kits and on 3D printers haven't had to be registered or bear serial numbers under federal law, but the rules may be changing.
www.criminaldefenselawyer.com www.criminaldefenselawyer.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the alphabet agency site:
View attachment 19802

Also, I cannot find any statute requiring serialization of a PMF if it is sold. If you are engaged in the business of making firearms for sale, then you must have the license to manufacture AND you must serialize those firearms you engaged in the business of selling. But I would challenge anyone to reference the FEDERAL law that stipulates a PMF cannot be sold at all or that it must be serialized. I cannot find any such law, regulation, or rule.
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Bingo. Unless you're specifically making them with full intent to sell them it's up to the state whether or not you have to serialize it.
 
Racer88 said:
I don't know about PA. But this is not true. You do NOT have to "own it to the end (death)" to indicate or prove that you did not manufacture it specifically for sale (aka "in the business of manufacturing for sale"). I do not believe this is correct and cannot find any such law.

You absolutely can sell a PMF.
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It comes down to what a court accepts as "intent". Go ahead, sell a PMF and take your chances. Don't be surprised if you end up fined or in jail. The prosecutor is going to argue you intended to sell it all along and are thus an unlicensed manufacture avoiding the tax. Same argument used to prosecute having NFA parts and a firearm capable of accepting them. You never have to put the parts together, you will get prosecuted based on the intent argument.

Even in the material you just referenced, the recommendation is to wash the firearm through a federally licensed manufacturer. In short, your PMF becomes that manufactures "product"...

Now, that poses an opportunity for a company like Polymer80.... accept the finished 80% frame back from the end user, serial number it, pay the tax on it, and transfer it back to the owner through a local FFL.... the frame is no longer a PFM at that point. Polymer80 could treat you as a sub-contractor. The 80% frame you finished would go on Polymer80's books as a finished firearm as if they had done all the work.
 
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clm2112 said:
Go ahead, sell a PMF and take your chances. Don't be surprised if you end up fined or in jail. The prosecutor is going to argue you intended to sell it all along and are thus an unlicensed manufacture avoiding the tax. Same argument used to prosecute having NFA parts and a firearm capable of accepting them. You never have to put the parts together, you will get prosecuted based on the intent argument.
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100% speculation. Please cite a single case where this has happened. Sincerely... I'd like to see it. I haven't been able to find ANY such evidence, and I've looked. But maybe I missed something.

I understand your reluctance. And I don't have any pressing reason to be a "test case." My personal "rule" is I don't sell ANY of my guns, factory or PMF. :) If I bought it, I keep it. Fortunately, I don't have to sell them for financial reasons. Not yet! LOL!

Again... I understand the reluctance. I don't trust the dot-gov, either. But your reluctance does not make facts. I'm a facts guy. I need citations, references, statutes, legal precedents, etc.... before I declare something to be fact or truth.

They have to PROVE intent. You don't have to DISprove intent.

As an example, if you made your PMF five years ago and then decided you don't want it anymore (and decide to transfer / sell it), it's a BIG STRETCH to suggest you had "intent to manufacture for sale."

Now... if you built one 3 weeks ago and sell it... and then make another and sell it after 2 months..... and then make another and sell it 2 weeks later.... It's a fairly obvious difference, eh?
 
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