The FNH PS90 Diary.

Racer88

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Figured I'd keep a diary of what I do with my new Christmas ('24) rifle. :cool:

Getting this gun has been over 10 years in the making. Many years ago, I got a dozen PS90 mags (during Obama years, as I recall, when they were chirping about mag bans). They went on sale at CDNN (I think) for $30 - 35 each! Back in 2011 - 2012! I bought a few here and there, eventually at 12 mags. Those mags have been sitting in my closet for all these years. Pic was taken when I was "inventorying" my mag stash.

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So far, I've done nothing to it. The bullpup design makes for a very compact 26.3" overall length. The action is behind the trigger instead of in front of it.

The ergonomics are designed for "close quarters battle." I don't have any plans for "battle," but it sure makes for very cool gun that looks like it came of the set of a sci-fi movie!

For those not familiar, besides being an unusual "bullpup" rifle, it uses an unconventional magazine and mag connection to the rifle. The mag has a 50-round capacity. As the rounds are pushed into the mag, they rotate 90-degrees. And as they are stripped and fed to the chamber during operation of the rifle, they rotate back.

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My most immediate plans for the rifle are to get an optic and a low-profile mount for the optic.

I did take it the range and put 100 rounds through it. With ear muffs on, it was nearly impossible to get a good cheek weld and use the crappy stock sights that are built into the OEM top rail. Nevertheless, I shot a decent group at a mere 25 yards.

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"THE" optic to get is the Aimpoint T-2. And "THE" mount to get for it (replacing the OEM top picatinny rail) is the Design Machine mount. I can't wait to see how I shoot with a proper optic.

So, stay tuned!

PS... My other bullpup is its FNH cousin, the FS2000 (with Aimpoint PRO optic):

FS2000.jpg
 
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Cool and unusual design. I have been tempted many times to jump into 5.7x28. The KelTec P50 is also an odd yet interesting design in that caliber.

Civilians cant buy the hotter loads that the 5.7x28 was originally designed for. The carbines and pistols still offer some interesting and useful capabilities. Capacity is only one of those benefits.
 
The KelTec P50 is also an odd yet interesting design in that caliber.
I recently handled one. Kel-Tec definitely has some interesting designs (I have a Sub2000). As it would appear, the P50 is VERY front heavy. So you would have to use a support hand on the "foregrip." So, I'm really not sure how you would hold it to aim and shoot it effectively.... unless you put a "brace" on it.

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Civilians cant buy the hotter loads that the 5.7x28 was originally designed for. The carbines and pistols still offer some interesting and useful capabilities. Capacity is only one of those benefits.
Yeah.... sucks about the hotter factory loads. There is a company, Elite Ammunition, that makes boutique 5.7 ammo. I went to their website last night. It would appear they are out of that business, even though they have a page with all the types of ammo listed. They are all marked "not available." Also interestingly, they have a disclaimer to not use ANY of their ammo in the Kel-tec P50.
 
Having 5.7 firearms might motivate me to do some hand loading. I have a simple Lee setup. Just dont use it. I bought it when I was dabbling in bench rest shooting but I found the matches dull and uninviting, so I moved on.
 
I recently handled one. Kel-Tec definitely has some interesting designs (I have a Sub2000). As it would appear, the P50 is VERY front heavy. So you would have to use a support hand on the "foregrip." So, I'm really not sure how you would hold it to aim and shoot it effectively.... unless you put a "brace" on it.

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Yeah.... sucks about the hotter factory loads. There is a company, Elite Ammunition, that makes boutique 5.7 ammo. I went to their website last night. It would appear they are out of that business, even though they have a page with all the types of ammo listed. They are all marked "not available." Also interestingly, they have a disclaimer to not use ANY of their ammo in the Kel-tec P50.
The KelTec to me is more of a subgun than pistol - that needs a brace. Some like to shoot these "PDWs" as a 'cheek weld' pistol. I'm not a fan of that technique but it's workable. If nothing else, a handstop would be a good addition to the P50. A forward grip would be perfect but that's a Bozo-No-No according to the Men in Black. Another silly rule that makes no sense.
 
Not to be cheeky... :)

This technique is getting some traction lately among training camps that cater to law enforcement special teams. The word is that this is optimal for close quarter engagements. I'm trying to keep an open mind about this but as I mentioned already I'm not sold on the technique. I'd be willing to take a course and see how it goes in a shoot house simulation.

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The gun is a Ruger LC Charger in 5.7x28.
 
For those not familiar with the 5.7 round... Caliber comparison (visual).

9mm | 5.7-mm (my PS90 and Five-seveN pistol) | .223 (AR-15)

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(photo not mine - grabbed from google)

5.7-mm is fun to shoot. Almost zero recoil. The pistol has a 20-round capacity in the flush-fitting standard magazine... and is still freakishly light in the hand. There are 30-rd extended mags available for the pistol.

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The PS90 rifle 50-round mag seems to last "forever" on the range.

The downside.... ammo costs about double 9mm.
 
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When I bought the PS90 mags years ago, two of them were 30-round mags. The other 10 mags were 50 round mags. I simply bought what was available.

In the last few days, I learned that the 30round mags can be easily converted to 50 rounds. The 30 round mags simply have a baseplate that has an integrated block. Change the baseplate to one without a block, and presto! 50 rounder! And no spring change needed, since the 30-rd mag uses the same spring.

30-vs-50-round-magazine.jpg
 
Having 5.7 firearms might motivate me to do some hand loading. I have a simple Lee setup. Just dont use it. I bought it when I was dabbling in bench rest shooting but I found the matches dull and uninviting, so I moved on.
Do a good bit of reading before reloading this caliber. It has unique qualities not encountered with standard calibers.

Factory ammo is available from FN, Fiocchi USA, and Federal, who buys the brass from FN.
Don't know about the Fiocchi, but the FN made cases have a polymer coating to make extraction reliable at this cartridges factory pressure level, due to it having little to no taper. I doubt you want to leave this coating in place as it will be embedded with firing residue. I'm assuming Hodgdon's data accounts for this.

Hodgdon has load data. The difference between the start load and max is about .6gr. so diligence when powder charging is going to be paramount. OAL is also a critical factor. You don't want the bullets seated deeper than spec.
 
Do a good bit of reading before reloading this caliber. It has unique qualities not encountered with standard calibers.

Factory ammo is available from FN, Fiocchi USA, and Federal, who buys the brass from FN.
Don't know about the Fiocchi, but the FN made cases have a polymer coating to make extraction reliable at this cartridges factory pressure level, due to it having little to no taper. I doubt you want to leave this coating in place as it will be embedded with firing residue. I'm assuming Hodgdon's data accounts for this.

Hodgdon has load data. The difference between the start load and max is about .6gr. so diligence when powder charging is going to be paramount. OAL is also a critical factor. You don't want the bullets seated deeper than spec.
Ugh. I’d probably buy new brass and not re use it. All I’m interested in is the velocity the round was initially designed for. Not saving a few bucks reloading. All that you mention being the case, the quantity I would hand load would be relatively low. I can be happy practicing with factory ammo.

I shoot a lot of handgun ammo. If I reloaded , it would be like a full time job. I’d rather watch paint dry !
 
Ugh. I’d probably buy new brass and not re use it. All I’m interested in is the velocity the round was initially designed for. Not saving a few bucks reloading. All that you mention being the case, the quantity I would hand load would be relatively low. I can be happy practicing with factory ammo.

I shoot a lot of handgun ammo. If I reloaded , it would be like a full time job. I’d rather watch paint dry !
The 5.7X28 was a clean sheet design. The case is not based off of a current or previous caliber. This is probably why Federal buys the brass from FN rather than tool up to make it. Right now, it's a low volume item with just a few firearms chambered for it. A cursory Google search turned up only once fired brass. A search of FN, Fiocchi, and Federal's website does not show any of them offering 5.7 brass, only ammo.

The point I'm trying to make is that your stated goal to load ammo up to the original spec when the cartridge was introduced may not be feasible. The polymer coating is to aid in extraction because the case has little to no taper. I'm making a guess that the once fired brass for sale has had the coating removed in the process of cleaning/sizing, etc. So the pressure level needed to achieve the original velocity may not be doable with no coating and the powders available to handloaders. But that's just a guess.

There is little reloading data out there. Hodgdon only shows data for pistol, so velocities are not comparable to rifle. And they only lists 3 powders. I have not found any pressure tested data for rifle.
 
The 5.7X28 was a clean sheet design. The case is not based off of a current or previous caliber. This is probably why Federal buys the brass from FN rather than tool up to make it. Right now, it's a low volume item with just a few firearms chambered for it. A cursory Google search turned up only once fired brass. A search of FN, Fiocchi, and Federal's website does not show any of them offering 5.7 brass, only ammo.

The point I'm trying to make is that your stated goal to load ammo up to the original spec when the cartridge was introduced may not be feasible. The polymer coating is to aid in extraction because the case has little to no taper. I'm making a guess that the once fired brass for sale has had the coating removed in the process of cleaning/sizing, etc. So the pressure level needed to achieve the original velocity may not be doable with no coating and the powders available to handloaders. But that's just a guess.

There is little reloading data out there. Hodgdon only shows data for pistol, so velocities are not comparable to rifle. And they only lists 3 powders. I have not found any pressure tested data for rifle.
Good info. It discourages me a little from making the leap. Some thoughts...

The consumer ammo is anemic when compared to it's original NATO design. Fun to shoot, low recoil for sure but range guns are really not my thing. The velocity of off the shelf 5.7x28 is better than your typical 9mm but bullet size and weight matter too as we all know.

I'm more interested in the 5.7x28 carbines than the pistols. As a defensive round, hydrostatic shock-wise the 5.7x28 has an edge. But the effect of hydrostatic shock starts to become a factor somewhere around 1800 fps. Most 9mm defensive rounds can check that box. And then some. I read that even with the impressive velocity, the 5.7x28 doesnt perform much better in meeting the proverbial 12 inches of penetration in ballistic gel. I don't overvalue shooting bullets into jello, but there has to be some kind of benchmark for ammo. Other than Bubba shooting a rump roast wrapped in a jean jacket on Youtube and calling it science. :)

I may not have looked hard enough but I haven't seen any solid copper or hollow points in this caliber yet. Maybe that will come down the road sometime. That is just fun fact. It doesn't really turn me off to the caliber. As I have repeated many times, in terms of priority good shot placement trumps expansion every time.

I dont mind the cost and relative scarcity of suppliers for the 5.7. But the only reason for me buying in is terminal performance. Especially when compared to competing calibers. Not just 9mm. I do have an affinity for pistol caliber carbines and subguns. Unless you are a sniper, short to intermediate range weapons and ammo is where you want to be with your skills and gear if your goal is about defensive shooting. Good skill to have, but nobody who doesn't wear a uniform is going to find himself shooting bad guys from half a mile away.

Maybe it's just too soon. the 5.7x28 does seem to be gaining some momentum in the consumer market. The options will increase if that trend continues. For now anyway, hand loading 5.7x28 is clearly too much of a pain in the ass.
 
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Just remember that ballistically speaking, there's not that much new under the sun.

Most peeps sneer at traditional calibers if for no other reason than it's "old". Modern advertising has them equating old with inferior.
So it's somewhat distressing to them to point out that the 5.7 is ballisically inferior to the 22 Hornet, which can push a 40gr. bullet to 2826 fps, compared to 1950 fps for 5.7 or, to compare to the FN restricted to LE/Mil load with a 31gr. bullet @ 2350 fps, the Hornet can achieve 3055 fps with the same weight bullet, and do it at a lower pressure, and has been a commercial cartridge for 100 years. Yeah, the Hornet has a rimmed case, so it's not going to be used in a semi, but in a bolt gun it is a better choice.

As far as the ammo types discontinued by FN, it was due to ability to defeat a Level IIIA Kevlar vest. This was achieved by using a very light bullet (23gr.) at high velocity (2800 fps). Current ammo is loaded to the same max pressure of 50K psi, just with heavier bullets, which reduces velocity. Most of your commercial ammo is loaded with 40-45gr, bullets, which gee, guess what? They are the same bullets loaded in the 22 Hornet, they just don't shoot as Fast...

So, setting aside the semi auto thing, imagine proposing a handgun and rifle for LE/Mil in 22 Hornet. Everyone would sneer at the idea, why? Mainly because it's old, and we all know that old is no good, especially 100 years old. But could the Hornet be made to cycle in a semi? Why not? S&W had the Model 52 back in the day that functioned with 38 Special wadcutter ammo, and the BREN gun functioned with rimmed 303 British, so it can be done.
 
I may not have looked hard enough but I haven't seen any solid copper or hollow points in this caliber yet. Maybe that will come down the road sometime. That is just fun fact. It doesn't really turn me off to the caliber. As I have repeated many times, in terms of priority good shot placement trumps expansion every time.
Speer has a Gold Dot load that's a HP.

And Fiocchi has a lead free load they market as SD with a copper jacket and copper core. It's labeled as frangible, so I'm guessing a drawn copper jacket and a sintered copper core. But I think you were wanting something like a Barnes bullet?
 
The Speer is interesting. Looks like a hunting round. I'm curious about the frangible. I presume it is more about reducing the risk of penetrating walls, etc.
 
Hornet can achieve 3055 fps with the same weight bullet, and do it at a lower pressure, and has been a commercial cartridge for 100 years. Yeah, the Hornet has a rimmed case, so it's not going to be used in a semi, but in a bolt gun it is a better choice.
I took note of your comments about Hornet a while back. Not something you see very often. Coincidentally I recently saw a box of 22 Hornet at a LGS I just happened to stop in to browse. First time I had seen that caliber in stock anywhere. Not too many choices for firearms in that caliber these days. Interesting nonetheless. The ballistic specs are impressive.

I agree the unwashed masses tend to follow the popular trends and some roll their eyes when the performance of older, mostly defunct calibers are mentioned.
 
I took note of your comments about Hornet a while back. Not something you see very often. Coincidentally I recently saw a box of 22 Hornet at a LGS I just happened to stop in to browse. First time I had seen that caliber in stock anywhere. Not too many choices for firearms in that caliber these days. Interesting nonetheless. The ballistic specs are impressive.

I agree the unwashed masses tend to follow the popular trends and some roll their eyes when the performance of older, mostly defunct calibers are mentioned.
I've got a Ruger 77/22H and a CZ527 in the caliber.
 
I've evolved to the complete opposite end of the spectrum. Instead of having a gun with 50 rounds at the ready I now have one with 7 rounds at the ready.

I shot my PS90 plenty, it was whelming. Granted you can't judge terminal ballistic performance by the ring on steel but it was more of a "dink" than a "ding" and the little flakes of metal left behind did not inspire confidence.

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TSUSA had the Speer Gold Dot on sale this past fall so I picked some up to shoot over the chrono but don't feel like digging the PS90 out of the back of the safe. Maybe one of you guys can get your wife a Garmin Xero for Valentines day... 💘 ?
 
Got my Design Machine optic mount! Now I just gotta "save up" for a stupid-expensive "must have" Aimpoint T-2 red dot optic. :)

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