Thinking about building a bufferless AR-45

[NavyVette]

Hello,
I have 80% AR-9 and AR-45 lowers from Juggernaut Tactical, and I am going to build an AR-9 with this upper:

BC-9 | 9MM Billet Right Side Charging Bufferless Upper | 7.5" Parkerized M4 Barrel | 1:10 Twist | Blow Back Gas System | 6.5" MLOK

Upper Only! The upper will come with the back piece and all the parts to make it bufferless. If using on an AR15 Lower you will need this tool to convert the non bufferless to bufferless. You will also need a Stern defense magwll adapter. Watch here to learn how to change to bufferless

www.bearcreekarsenal.com

I'm thinking of buying 2, and converting one to 45 ACP with this barrel and bcg:

7.5″ .45 ACP | Black Nitride | Medium Profile Barrel | 1:16 RH Twist | Blowback Gas System

45 ACP | Black Nitride | Medium Profile Barrel | 1:16 RH Twist | Blowback Gas System Description: LENGTH: 7.5" PROFILE: MEDIUM GAS SYSTEM: BLOWBACK TWIST RATE: 1:16 GAS BLOCK: .750" MATERIAL…

www.durkintactical.com

.45 ACP | Black Nitride | BCG

This is a .45 ACP, 8.5" Black Nitride, Bolt Carrier Group. Model: AR-45 Caliber: .45 ACP OAL: 6.75 inches Weight: 14.5 ounces Material: 8620 Steel | Nitride Finish Can Use With: Glock Magazine fed…

www.durkintactical.com

And this muzzle brake

K-Type Compact Tactical Muzzle Brake

The K-Type Compact Tactical Muzzle Brake is designed for minimal weight, minimal added length and maximum performance. Recoil and muzzle rise are roundly mitigated in this humble yet dignified 3 ounce package. The USA sourced hardened steel will live up to the harshest treatment and...

rexsilentium.com

Durkin says their parts will work with the BCA upper, so I'm good there.

Does anyone see any problem with my plan?

Thanks

 

[Miltonboro]

I have zero experience w/bufferless uppers, but I watched the video on the Bear Creek page, and the bufferless BCA looks highly proprietary, and he states the upper receiver is proprietary. Would the standard AR 45 bolt be adaptable?? I assume Durkin meant a standard upper?

 

[Alex]

Does anyone see any problem with my plan?

Thanks

Yeah! Feel free to disregard my opinion...

I think pistol caliber ARs combine the low energy and poor long range performance of a pistol with the weight and bulk of a rifle while adding clunky straight blowback operation to a previously smooth and elegant rifle design. The height over bore of typical AR sights also makes the point of impact as much as 2 inches off at typical pistol engagement distances while the pistol ballistics will make shots suited to a rifle an even larger holdover. PCC ARs combine the worst of 2 worlds in my opinion.

If you are still here...

I know you want to build a 45 but I just have to mention the BRN-180 upper as a bufferless AR option. They are available in a variety of barrel lengths and rifle calibers. I have a couple and they are sweet, smooth shooting rifles. The M-LOK handguard is super slim, which feels great to my hand but can get hot because it is so close to the barrel. They fit any AR15 lower, surely you have one of those lying around in need of a mate?

BRN180 | Brownells

Shop for BRN180 at Brownells!

www.brownells.com

Strike Industries makes a nice buffer tube plug with a vertical pic rail and a QD sling mount - a great solution for a rear sling mount on something without a traditional stock. For now you can use it as a large format pistol. If/when the pistol brace rule gets an injunction, or even better, the NFA is repealed it is super easy to add a brace or folding stock.

Strike AR Picatinny Stock Adapter

The Strike AR Picatinny Stock Adapter gives the user the ability to mount a 1913 Picatinny interface stock/stabilizer assembly where normally the receiver extension is attached. For ARs that do not need an in-line buffer and buffer spring to function, this is a simple, fast and budget friendly...

www.strikeindustries.com

I have a B&T APC10. It is a clunky 10mm blowback operated piece of compared to my 300blk BRN-180 while offering 1/3 of the muzzle energy. It recoils worse than my Lone Wolf subcompact pistol with its G20 slide. It is too big to carry while the subcompact/G20 build is part of my CCW rotation and takes the same 10, 15 & 30 round 10mm Glock mags as the APC10. I think the BCG of the B&T weighs as much as the whole entire Lone Wolf pistol.
Now that pistol braces can not show their faces in polite society the APC10 is just taking up space. It is a gun that serves no purpose. When I want to shoot a lighter recoiling, cheaper to feed rifle I bust out my 15-22. I had intended for the APC10 to serve as a PDW type firearm to bridge the gap between a CCW pistol and a full power rifle but the new rule spoiled my plan.

These are strictly practical considerations. If you are wanting to build something just for the sheer joy of creating something different ignore everything I just posted and have a nice day.

 

[NavyVette]

I have zero experience w/bufferless uppers, but I watched the video on the Bear Creek page, and the bufferless BCA looks highly proprietary, and he states the upper receiver is proprietary. Would the standard AR 45 bolt be adaptable?? I assume Durkin meant a standard upper?

Thanks for the feedback.

Bear Creek says I just need a 45ACP barrel and BCG and Durkin specifically say they are compatible. PSA actually says theirs are "milspec"
Bear Creek also says that I can test it as I have a 30 day return, so they don't seem too worried
I do see that the BCG looks proprietary though "There's a hole in the top weight" on the BCG.
I don't see him saying the receiver itself is proprietary?

Thanks again.
I will reach out to Bear Creek again.

 

[NavyVette]

Yeah! Feel free to disregard my opinion...

I think pistol caliber ARs combine the low energy and poor long range performance of a pistol with the weight and bulk of a rifle while adding clunky straight blowback operation to a previously smooth and elegant rifle design. The height over bore of typical AR sights also makes the point of impact as much as 2 inches off at typical pistol engagement distances while the pistol ballistics will make shots suited to a rifle an even larger holdover. PCC ARs combine the worst of 2 worlds in my opinion.
View attachment 9793

If you are still here...

I know you want to build a 45 but I just have to mention the BRN-180 upper as a bufferless AR option. They are available in a variety of barrel lengths and rifle calibers. I have a couple and they are sweet, smooth shooting rifles. The M-LOK handguard is super slim, which feels great to my hand but can get hot because it is so close to the barrel. They fit any AR15 lower, surely you have one of those lying around in need of a mate?

BRN180 | Brownells

Shop for BRN180 at Brownells!

www.brownells.com

Strike Industries makes a nice buffer tube plug with a vertical pic rail and a QD sling mount - a great solution for a rear sling mount on something without a traditional stock. For now you can use it as a large format pistol. If/when the pistol brace rule gets an injunction, or even better, the NFA is repealed it is super easy to add a brace or folding stock.

Strike AR Picatinny Stock Adapter

The Strike AR Picatinny Stock Adapter gives the user the ability to mount a 1913 Picatinny interface stock/stabilizer assembly where normally the receiver extension is attached. For ARs that do not need an in-line buffer and buffer spring to function, this is a simple, fast and budget friendly...

www.strikeindustries.com

I have a B&T APC10. It is a clunky 10mm blowback operated piece of compared to my 300blk BRN-180 while offering 1/3 of the muzzle energy. It recoils worse than my Lone Wolf subcompact pistol with its G20 slide. It is too big to carry while the subcompact/G20 build is part of my CCW rotation and takes the same 10, 15 & 30 round 10mm Glock mags as the APC10. I think the BCG of the B&T weighs as much as the whole entire Lone Wolf pistol.
Now that pistol braces can not show their faces in polite society the APC10 is just taking up space. It is a gun that serves no purpose. When I want to shoot a lighter recoiling, cheaper to feed rifle I bust out my 15-22. I had intended for the APC10 to serve as a PDW type firearm to bridge the gap between a CCW pistol and a full power rifle but the new rule spoiled my plan.

These are strictly practical considerations. If you are wanting to build something just for the sheer joy of creating something different ignore everything I just posted and have a nice day.

Thanks for the feedback - I may rethink this and do normal pistol builds.

 

[Miltonboro]

Thanks for the feedback.

Bear Creek says I just need a 45ACP barrel and BCG and Durkin specifically say they are compatible. PSA actually says theirs are "milspec"
Bear Creek also says that I can test it as I have a 30 day return, so they don't seem too worried
I do see that the BCG looks proprietary though "There's a hole in the top weight" on the BCG.
I don't see him saying the receiver itself is proprietary?

Thanks again.
I will reach out to Bear Creek again.

If Bear Creek says it'll work they should certainly know. I'm just confused as both their bufferless upper and BCG look highly proprietary to me in the two videos. At 2:22 in the first video his entire finger fits inside the upper behind the BCG suggesting it's very short, as a standard BCG would be flush w/the rear of the upper. But yeah both Bear Creek and Durkin have good customer service in my experience so little risk. Let us know how it goes. I've built a couple AR-9's and have been tempted to build a AR-45.

 

[brian]

If Bear Creek says it'll work they should certainly know. I'm just confused as both their bufferless upper and BCG look highly proprietary to me in the two videos. At 2:22 in the first video his entire finger fits inside the upper behind the BCG suggesting it's very short, as a standard BCG would be flush w/the rear of the upper. But yeah both Bear Creek and Durkin have good customer service in my experience so little risk. Let us know how it goes. I've built a couple AR-9's and have been tempted to build a AR-45.

I hadn't even thought about an AR-45, was planning on an AR-9. AR45 sounds fun too - a modern Tommy Gun. While I am sure there are quirks, can't imagine that "they don't work" or there'd be a lot of buzz about them not working. As far as sight issues that @Alex mentions, I have sighting issues on handguns with suppressor sights so that's an adaptation one can figure out. If using an optic, a pretty easy one to work out at that Need to do some research and throw out some ideas of what I plan to do to gather community feedback. Too focused on other things right now. Hope to get there in the next few weeks, maybe mid April after tax season.

 

[Miltonboro]

I hadn't even thought about an AR-45, was planning on an AR-9. AR45 sounds fun too - a modern Tommy Gun. While I am sure there are quirks, can't imagine that "they don't work" or there'd be a lot of buzz about them not working. As far as sight issues that @Alex mentions, I have sighting issues on handguns with suppressor sights so that's an adaptation one can figure out. If using an optic, a pretty easy one to work out at that Need to do some research and throw out some ideas of what I plan to do to gather community feedback. Too focused on other things right now. Hope to get there in the next few weeks, maybe mid April after tax season.

Far fewer options for .45 ACP AR parts(BCG, barrel, lower receiver, especially 80% lower) than 9mm, but all are certainly findable. Maybe I'll compile a list at some point. Durkin has complete AR-45 uppers.

 

[NavyVette]

Far fewer options for .45 ACP AR parts(BCG, barrel, lower receiver, especially 80% lower) than 9mm, but all are certainly findable. Maybe I'll compile a list at some point. Durkin has complete AR-45 uppers.

Moriarti Armaments has AR-45 uppers, as well as AR-9, and 10MM and .40 uppers as well.
Plus, lowers, and build kits - including 80% lowers.

AR-9 MM- AR 9 - THE NEW WAY OF FUN

AR-9 MM, AR 9 - THE NEW WAY OF FUN

moriartiarmaments.com

 

[NavyVette]

Oh, and Juggernaut still has 80% lowers PCC 45 - Juggernaut Tactical

 

[NavyVette]

I hadn't even thought about an AR-45, was planning on an AR-9. AR45 sounds fun too - a modern Tommy Gun. While I am sure there are quirks, can't imagine that "they don't work" or there'd be a lot of buzz about them not working. As far as sight issues that @Alex mentions, I have sighting issues on handguns with suppressor sights so that's an adaptation one can figure out. If using an optic, a pretty easy one to work out at that Need to do some research and throw out some ideas of what I plan to do to gather community feedback. Too focused on other things right now. Hope to get there in the next few weeks, maybe mid April after tax season.

You talked me into it

 

[NavyVette]

Well, Poop.
BCA decided not to sell bufferless uppers anymore as "The uppers required a lot of conversion and customers were finding it difficult." - I watched the video - it's so easy even a caveman could do it.

They a;lso won't commit to having a bufferless 45, AND won't sell 10mm or 45ACP uppers as "they are proprietary to the lower that they come on"

 

[Miltonboro]

Well, Poop.
BCA decided not to sell bufferless uppers anymore as "The uppers required a lot of conversion and customers were finding it difficult." - I watched the video - it's so easy even a caveman could do it.

They a;lso won't commit to having a bufferless 45, AND won't sell 10mm or 45ACP uppers as "they are proprietary to the lower that they come on"

Gonna still build a regular AR-45? Or is non-bufferless a deal breaker?

 

[NavyVette]

I'm torn - I might sell the lowers and concentrate on AR-10 and AR-15's

It just drives me nuts. I'm tempted to ask if the complete pistols come with return labels so their customers who cannot bolt on a piece of metal on the back of the upper can send them back for cleaning every few weeks.

 

[MrMayan]

Thanks for the feedback.

Bear Creek says I just need a 45ACP barrel and BCG and Durkin specifically say they are compatible. PSA actually says theirs are "milspec"
Bear Creek also says that I can test it as I have a 30 day return, so they don't seem too worried
I do see that the BCG looks proprietary though "There's a hole in the top weight" on the BCG.
I don't see him saying the receiver itself is proprietary?

Thanks again.
I will reach out to Bear Creek again.

It won’t work. Both bolts are different. I own a bca bufferless 9. It’s different from what your planning on getting from durkin.

 

[NavyVette]

It won’t work. Both bolts are different. I own a bca bufferless 9. It’s different from what your planning on getting from durkin.

Hi,

It won't work for multiple reasons - they won't even sell the uppers anymore

 

[NavyVette]

I'm torn - I might sell the lowers and concentrate on AR-10 and AR-15's

It just drives me nuts. I'm tempted to ask if the complete pistols come with return labels so their customers who cannot bolt on a piece of metal on the back of the upper can send them back for cleaning every few weeks.

This was BCA's response "We just had a lot of phone calls and emails. We try to make it as easy as possible. "

I admit, I saw a lot of comments from whiney ass maggots like "I bent the sprong, can I get another?" and "Do I NEED to use the enclosed bolt?" and "Why should I do it the way you say in the instructions? Can't I install the conversion kit while the rifle is assembled?"

 

[Miltonboro]

A regular buffer AR-45 would still be a fun build. I haven't managed to rationalize it yet since I don't have a G45 thus no mags or ammo, so I'd need everything: Lower, BCG, barrel, mags, and ammo. If I had a G45 that'd be two down. With all my 9mm mags and ammo it makes sense to just build another AR-9. Still kinda want an AR-45. There's also .40S&W and 10mm..... though those parts get harder to find...

 

[NavyVette]

Moriarity has 10mm, 9mm, 40, and 45ACP kits

AR 9MM Build Kits - Moriarti Armaments

AR 9MM Build Kits, Build your own pistol caliber AR with confidence by selecting all American Made pistol caliber AR parts.

moriartiarmaments.com

And, non ffl lowers (plus FFL ones, which will not be mentioned here)

80% PCC Lowers

80 PERCENT PCC Lowers - AR-9 AND AR-45 80 PERCENT LOWERS

moriartiarmaments.com

I'm getting the LRBHO kits in 9mm and 45ACP. SOMEDAY

 

[Miltonboro]

Oh, and Juggernaut still has 80% lowers PCC 45 - Juggernaut Tactical

Those Juggernaut PCC lowers look pretty nice, with LRBHO and ambi bolt release. Very tempting.

AR-9 80% Lower Receiver - Juggernaut Tactical

jtactical.com

I don't own a PCC lower with LRBHO yet. Interesting to see the various mechanisms:


View: https://youtu.be/YQBYX0_Gw6A