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Clm2112- apologies for the raccoon hijack..
Time to "Mup"... my Sig P320C clone build.
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No Worries, I'm the one who brought up the subject of trash pandas.
As I prepare for another night engagement with the marauding band of furry predators. Took a crack at one last night, but missed. It got the peanut butter bait, but didn't get my chickens.
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Twiddling my thumbs again, waiting on the post office and UPS. (Yeah, I bought one of those new take-off M17 slide assemblies. Somebody put one up for sale for $342 with night sights, so I went for it.) I'm thinking more than one dealer loaded up on M17 Caliber X-Change kits and is parting them out.
Meanwhile, I finished up the 3D printed grip module and am now ready to test fire it tomorrow morning. Kinda has a Reeses Peanut Butter Cup vibe going... dark chocolate, milk chocolate, and peanut butter colored parts all mixed together.... or maybe a Kit-Kat bar.
Ok, it functions. I'm not really thrilled. The grip module file is by JP (Gatalog site) and it is a copy of the Aluminum Sig AGX grip module. It is kinda clunky. The module is wide with hard edges that mirror the contours of the AGX with it's removable grip panels. Feels to me like a Beretta M9. Glad I didn't plunk down $400 for a example of Sig's best product, that would have been a major disappointment. The grip module from the base model Compact feels a whole lot better in the hand. The Wilson Combat module is by far the best feeling one in my opinion.
I'll find out tomorrow if a 3D printed grip module is a viable tool. I think it will do pretty well. All the moving parts are within the steel FCU so the grip module wrapped around the FCU is just a handle for it. A 3D printed Glock has to handle much higher forces being passed through the plastic.
Meanwhile, I finished up the 3D printed grip module and am now ready to test fire it tomorrow morning. Kinda has a Reeses Peanut Butter Cup vibe going... dark chocolate, milk chocolate, and peanut butter colored parts all mixed together.... or maybe a Kit-Kat bar.
Ok, it functions. I'm not really thrilled. The grip module file is by JP (Gatalog site) and it is a copy of the Aluminum Sig AGX grip module. It is kinda clunky. The module is wide with hard edges that mirror the contours of the AGX with it's removable grip panels. Feels to me like a Beretta M9. Glad I didn't plunk down $400 for a example of Sig's best product, that would have been a major disappointment. The grip module from the base model Compact feels a whole lot better in the hand. The Wilson Combat module is by far the best feeling one in my opinion.
I'll find out tomorrow if a 3D printed grip module is a viable tool. I think it will do pretty well. All the moving parts are within the steel FCU so the grip module wrapped around the FCU is just a handle for it. A 3D printed Glock has to handle much higher forces being passed through the plastic.
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Another successful test firing session of both the 3D printed grip module and the modified trigger bar (although I just used in in a non-manual safety MUP-1)
Just two magazines worth of 9mm. I don't see any cracks in the grip module. I figured if it was going to fail, it would be around the take-down lever holes. But I don't see any sign of the plastic fibers de-laminating.
Just two magazines worth of 9mm. I don't see any cracks in the grip module. I figured if it was going to fail, it would be around the take-down lever holes. But I don't see any sign of the plastic fibers de-laminating.
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Ok, another package leads to another combination to try out...
And, if you like the feel of a single-stack 1911, this will feel very familiar. The M19 slide assembly on the medium compact WC grip module. It is wider than a 1911, but everything fits the hand like one and has good balance with the 15 round magazines. I really really like this combination already.
And, if you like the feel of a single-stack 1911, this will feel very familiar. The M19 slide assembly on the medium compact WC grip module. It is wider than a 1911, but everything fits the hand like one and has good balance with the 15 round magazines. I really really like this combination already.
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Ok, we are now a month into this adventure into Sig-land. I was hoping to wrap this up this weekend, but the last manual safety parts are still sitting in a USPS distribution center in Warrendale, PA. Maybe they will get here on Monday.
Meanwhile, another grip module showed up to replace the 3D printed one of the last MUP build. It is a factory Medium Compact in coyote. Midwest Gun Works has been selling off factory Sig modules at a discount.. $38. So, why not. PN: GRIP-MOD-C-943-M-COY
Unfortunately, they were sold out of the version with the cut for the manual safety, but I'm getting pretty good at adding that cut myself, so I went ahead an ordered the regular one.
The conversation in One Ping Only's thread on choosing a Glock 19 or a P320 lead me down a rabbit warren that resulted in the discovery of a really odd product. Amend2's S300 grip module.
Amend2® S300™ Hybrid Grip Module
Interesting concept... a P320 grip module that utilizes P365 magazines. This plays off the two design paths: The P320 is designed as a native full size pistol that keeps getting scaled down. The P365 is a native sub-compact pistol that keeps getting scaled up in size. Hence the magazines are not compatible. The S300 grip is a sub-compact grip that takes the 10 round 9mm P365 magazine and feeds it up through the larger P320 FCU. (The reverse condition is impossible to do... a P320 magazine is too big to fit through the P365 FCU, which is why the P365 isn't offered in anything larger that 9mm.)
As much as I dislike giving MidwayUSA any business, they did have both the S300 grip module, a factory Sig 10 round P365 magazine, on sale and with free shipping. So, by next weekend I can try this combination out and see if it works. Worst case, it is a total failure and I end up gifting the magazine to a friend with a P365 to use in good health.
Now, I've got another racoon corpse to clean up. That's four coons and two possums in a week that have had taken a fatally unhealthy interest in my chickens. The word has to get around soon that this is not the place to hang out at night looking for a free meal.
Meanwhile, another grip module showed up to replace the 3D printed one of the last MUP build. It is a factory Medium Compact in coyote. Midwest Gun Works has been selling off factory Sig modules at a discount.. $38. So, why not. PN: GRIP-MOD-C-943-M-COY
Unfortunately, they were sold out of the version with the cut for the manual safety, but I'm getting pretty good at adding that cut myself, so I went ahead an ordered the regular one.
The conversation in One Ping Only's thread on choosing a Glock 19 or a P320 lead me down a rabbit warren that resulted in the discovery of a really odd product. Amend2's S300 grip module.
Amend2® S300™ Hybrid Grip Module
Interesting concept... a P320 grip module that utilizes P365 magazines. This plays off the two design paths: The P320 is designed as a native full size pistol that keeps getting scaled down. The P365 is a native sub-compact pistol that keeps getting scaled up in size. Hence the magazines are not compatible. The S300 grip is a sub-compact grip that takes the 10 round 9mm P365 magazine and feeds it up through the larger P320 FCU. (The reverse condition is impossible to do... a P320 magazine is too big to fit through the P365 FCU, which is why the P365 isn't offered in anything larger that 9mm.)
As much as I dislike giving MidwayUSA any business, they did have both the S300 grip module, a factory Sig 10 round P365 magazine, on sale and with free shipping. So, by next weekend I can try this combination out and see if it works. Worst case, it is a total failure and I end up gifting the magazine to a friend with a P365 to use in good health.
Now, I've got another racoon corpse to clean up. That's four coons and two possums in a week that have had taken a fatally unhealthy interest in my chickens. The word has to get around soon that this is not the place to hang out at night looking for a free meal.
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That’s a brilliant idea! I can’t wait to hear what you think of the product quality & ergo’s
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Not much to report today. The last of the Sig parts are still missing in action at the USPS distribution center. If they don't make the scene in a day or so, I'm going to ask the local post office to shake it loose. At least I have the tracking number.
Small stuff done and progress made. A second eBay hard-case showed up, so one of the MUP-1 based guns now has a silver Sig case just like it's factory made brother. That should be enough... the carry gun and magazines have a 3D printed stand to rest in when not in a holster, and the MUP-1 clones can rest in the hard cases between their trips to the range. I'm planning on taking them to the next makers match, so they will get to travel at some point.
The coyote colored Sig grip module has been modified to accept the manual safety levers. I didn't bother to photograph it, since it is just a repeat of doing the black grip module. Speaking of which... don't bother getting a Coyote grip module from Sig... it is just paint on a regular black one. At least the Wilson Combat grip module is moulded of the same color plastic all the way through....score another point for them. I'll just rattle-can paint the black modules in future. Brownell's Aluma-hyde should do the job nicely and be just as durable as the Sig paint.
And last, put 10 rounds through the M17 slide assembly. No issues. It digested all of the test rounds, which were my powder coated cast lead round nose bullets. Cheap stuff that just rings the steel plate target.
I would say the basic mission has been accomplished. Two MUP-1 builds, where all of the parts interchange with the factory made Sig P320C. I think I have shot every combination of slides and grip modules on both MUP-1 fire control units as well as the factory FCU. It all works, which is what I wanted to happen. I can't ask for much more than that.
Small stuff done and progress made. A second eBay hard-case showed up, so one of the MUP-1 based guns now has a silver Sig case just like it's factory made brother. That should be enough... the carry gun and magazines have a 3D printed stand to rest in when not in a holster, and the MUP-1 clones can rest in the hard cases between their trips to the range. I'm planning on taking them to the next makers match, so they will get to travel at some point.
The coyote colored Sig grip module has been modified to accept the manual safety levers. I didn't bother to photograph it, since it is just a repeat of doing the black grip module. Speaking of which... don't bother getting a Coyote grip module from Sig... it is just paint on a regular black one. At least the Wilson Combat grip module is moulded of the same color plastic all the way through....score another point for them. I'll just rattle-can paint the black modules in future. Brownell's Aluma-hyde should do the job nicely and be just as durable as the Sig paint.
And last, put 10 rounds through the M17 slide assembly. No issues. It digested all of the test rounds, which were my powder coated cast lead round nose bullets. Cheap stuff that just rings the steel plate target.
I would say the basic mission has been accomplished. Two MUP-1 builds, where all of the parts interchange with the factory made Sig P320C. I think I have shot every combination of slides and grip modules on both MUP-1 fire control units as well as the factory FCU. It all works, which is what I wanted to happen. I can't ask for much more than that.
Can someone direct me to the link to download MGB's jig? I found a link that requires permission to download it:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Fz7PWlZ4GaKeX-Sp8f_3ZljM95j4dnpd/view
But anytime I try to request access, I get a message saying they were unable to send a request... Any help would be greatly appreciated.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Fz7PWlZ4GaKeX-Sp8f_3ZljM95j4dnpd/view
But anytime I try to request access, I get a message saying they were unable to send a request... Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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You might want to post that question as your own thread for the sake of being seen. I don't know the answer, I've haven't used the jig.
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Last package with the safety lever for the second MUP looks to me lost forever in the USPS Mail Distribution Center in Pittsburgh. I contacted ModGuns to start the process if getting them replaced or refunded.
Meanwhile, the Amend2 grip module and a Sig P365 magazine arrived. Just got through putting a MUP and slide in that grip module to try out.
Ok, in terms of quality and fit, it is just fine. It is well made in terms of material and finish. The FCU fit right into it, the slide went on, and the magazine goes right in. So, it works as advertised.
Ergonomically... it sucks.
No gang, it really, really sucks.
By the way... did I mention it sucks?
The entire pistol ends up being roughly the same size as a Glock 26 or PF940SC. So it will fit into my jacket pocket. But I cannot grip the pistol the way you normally do and get thumb and four fingers on it. Just dry firing it to try out, the most effective way I could find to grip the pistol was to shoot using my middle finger on the trigger. (Index finger on the frame, in that stippled area above the trigger, and my ring and pinky fingers on the grip.)
Can I shoot this way, sure, with a little practice. The P320 trigger is light, and teaching my middle finger to do the trigger work is something that could happen. I'll give it a go this weekend.
But I can already recommend against using this grip module unless you are desperate to have a P320 in jacket pocket size. There are much better options.
Here are some comparison photos to give you a sense of scale. The Amend2 grip vs. a Polymer80 PF940SC vs. the normal Sig P320 Compact.
In reality, a Glock 26 or Polymer80 PF940SC beats a Sig P320C / Amend2 Grip combo. It isn't even a contest. Similar in size, normal grip, and you get two extra rounds of ammunition too.
Meanwhile, the Amend2 grip module and a Sig P365 magazine arrived. Just got through putting a MUP and slide in that grip module to try out.
Ok, in terms of quality and fit, it is just fine. It is well made in terms of material and finish. The FCU fit right into it, the slide went on, and the magazine goes right in. So, it works as advertised.
Ergonomically... it sucks.
No gang, it really, really sucks.
By the way... did I mention it sucks?
The entire pistol ends up being roughly the same size as a Glock 26 or PF940SC. So it will fit into my jacket pocket. But I cannot grip the pistol the way you normally do and get thumb and four fingers on it. Just dry firing it to try out, the most effective way I could find to grip the pistol was to shoot using my middle finger on the trigger. (Index finger on the frame, in that stippled area above the trigger, and my ring and pinky fingers on the grip.)
Can I shoot this way, sure, with a little practice. The P320 trigger is light, and teaching my middle finger to do the trigger work is something that could happen. I'll give it a go this weekend.
But I can already recommend against using this grip module unless you are desperate to have a P320 in jacket pocket size. There are much better options.
Here are some comparison photos to give you a sense of scale. The Amend2 grip vs. a Polymer80 PF940SC vs. the normal Sig P320 Compact.
In reality, a Glock 26 or Polymer80 PF940SC beats a Sig P320C / Amend2 Grip combo. It isn't even a contest. Similar in size, normal grip, and you get two extra rounds of ammunition too.
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Went up to the range this morning and tried out the Amend2 grip module. It did kinda suck, but it went better than I expected. Shooting the pistol by using my middle finger on the trigger work surprisingly well. With my index finger on the frame, I was able to get a good grip on the pistol. The thumb of my support hand was on the groove of the dust cover picatinny rail, and I could really clamp down on the frame.
So, maybe not as much of a complete failure as I expected. I could see this grip module working, in a normal grip style, for someone with small hands. I wear size XL gloves, so my attempt at using this is unfair in general.
I'm still waiting for the last set of safety levers. No word yet from ModGuns or the post office about what happened to the last parcel of parts. I guess it is another one of those useless government holidays, So no chance of checking up on it today.
Meanwhile, just to explore the concept a little further, I'm going to try one of these out as well:
MTX 365 +3 Round Magazine Extender with Spring for P365
It has gotten some good reviews, with the only down check being very difficult to load past 11 rounds. If it allows me to go back to a full, normal, grip on the pistol, it might be worthwhile, even if it has trouble increasing the capacity of the magazine to 13 rounds. It would still end up shorter than the regular Compact grip module, though a little longer than a G26 with a pinky extension on the magazine.
Another train of thought I going along with is removing 0.30" from the end of the dust cover on the grip. Amend2 probably should have done this, but I can see they wanted the grip to be flush with a 3.9" Compact slide. I think if I cut the grip back to what would be flush on a 3.6" Sub-Compact P320 slide, there would still be an overlap of the Compact slide's recoil spring perch and the shorter dust cover. The inside surface of the dust cover is molded in a solid channel with the same diameter down it's length, so doing this should not leave any unsightly gap between the grip module and the slide.
So, maybe not as much of a complete failure as I expected. I could see this grip module working, in a normal grip style, for someone with small hands. I wear size XL gloves, so my attempt at using this is unfair in general.
I'm still waiting for the last set of safety levers. No word yet from ModGuns or the post office about what happened to the last parcel of parts. I guess it is another one of those useless government holidays, So no chance of checking up on it today.
Meanwhile, just to explore the concept a little further, I'm going to try one of these out as well:
MTX 365 +3 Round Magazine Extender with Spring for P365
It has gotten some good reviews, with the only down check being very difficult to load past 11 rounds. If it allows me to go back to a full, normal, grip on the pistol, it might be worthwhile, even if it has trouble increasing the capacity of the magazine to 13 rounds. It would still end up shorter than the regular Compact grip module, though a little longer than a G26 with a pinky extension on the magazine.
Another train of thought I going along with is removing 0.30" from the end of the dust cover on the grip. Amend2 probably should have done this, but I can see they wanted the grip to be flush with a 3.9" Compact slide. I think if I cut the grip back to what would be flush on a 3.6" Sub-Compact P320 slide, there would still be an overlap of the Compact slide's recoil spring perch and the shorter dust cover. The inside surface of the dust cover is molded in a solid channel with the same diameter down it's length, so doing this should not leave any unsightly gap between the grip module and the slide.
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Well, that was pretty easy. Lopped off the end of the Amend2 grip module. Just sawed through it around halfway through the last picatinny rail slot, then milled the end using a router bit to get it square. When assembled with a 3.9" compact slide assembly, the recoil spring is still covered and protected from debris. I don't have a 3.6" sub-compact slide, but if the dimensions are correct, it should be flush with the end of the dust cover.
Only thing left to do is add the angled cuts to match the original look, then we sand the cuts to blend everything in.
Only thing left to do is add the angled cuts to match the original look, then we sand the cuts to blend everything in.
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A little more time adding bevel cuts to the end of the picatinny rail to help it holster. Going to hold off on adding the cheek cuts. No real need for them except to match the contour of a Sig Sub-Compact slide, which I don't currently have.
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Little update. The magazine extension arrived in the post, and I've had a chance to install it.
On the plus side, it gives enough space on the pistol's grip to handle it like a normal pistol. No more resorting to shooting with my middle finger on the trigger. So, in that respect, it makes the Amend2 grip module usable. Still smaller that the P320 Compact, but larger than a G26. Bit of a half-way house. I could definitely see using the extension on a regular P365.
Down side.... damn hard to load. Getting the first eleven rounds in was not a problem. Last two... not happening yet. I'm giving some though to drilling a small hole in the body of the magazine, so I can shove the coil spring around if it gets stuck during loading. I have to give that some thought.
On other fronts.... Still have not received the last manual safety parts from ModGuns. They put me in a perpetual holding pattern over their shipping insurance. Kinda dissappointed with them. They have known for going on two weeks now that the post office lost the package in transit. It never made it to the local post office. I would have been nice to send out replacements back then. It's not like I'm scamming them out of the parts.
And, in my ongoing war with the trash panda army.... I'm up to seven raccoons and two possums KIA, with no losses to the chickens and only a few days worth of eggs lost. Nothing has gotten inside the coop since the early days of the conflict.
On the plus side, it gives enough space on the pistol's grip to handle it like a normal pistol. No more resorting to shooting with my middle finger on the trigger. So, in that respect, it makes the Amend2 grip module usable. Still smaller that the P320 Compact, but larger than a G26. Bit of a half-way house. I could definitely see using the extension on a regular P365.
Down side.... damn hard to load. Getting the first eleven rounds in was not a problem. Last two... not happening yet. I'm giving some though to drilling a small hole in the body of the magazine, so I can shove the coil spring around if it gets stuck during loading. I have to give that some thought.
On other fronts.... Still have not received the last manual safety parts from ModGuns. They put me in a perpetual holding pattern over their shipping insurance. Kinda dissappointed with them. They have known for going on two weeks now that the post office lost the package in transit. It never made it to the local post office. I would have been nice to send out replacements back then. It's not like I'm scamming them out of the parts.
And, in my ongoing war with the trash panda army.... I'm up to seven raccoons and two possums KIA, with no losses to the chickens and only a few days worth of eggs lost. Nothing has gotten inside the coop since the early days of the conflict.
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Last little alteration to the shortened Amend2 grip module... Put the cheek cuts back into the shortened dust cover.
Pretty easy to do. Mark up the front and back edges of the dust cover to be removed, set it up in the mill using a wood router bit as the cutter. Then mill right across. The material cuts very easily, and left a very smooth surface. I just need to burnish it with my fingernail to finish it.
Pretty easy to do. Mark up the front and back edges of the dust cover to be removed, set it up in the mill using a wood router bit as the cutter. Then mill right across. The material cuts very easily, and left a very smooth surface. I just need to burnish it with my fingernail to finish it.
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Schaweeeet!!!! Great work. That's what really blows me away with you folks. Very talented bunch...and have the tooling to do it.
So cool!! Me- I'm just beyond the loathed "parts assembler" that gets looked at narrowly...that 'just beyond' is the actual finishing of an 80 percent unit and fitting...ah maybe parts choice is part of it.
But MAN...that turned-out impressively. I've still not completely given-up on the P320... going to have to scratch that itch somehow. lol
Please do give us a range report!!
So cool!! Me- I'm just beyond the loathed "parts assembler" that gets looked at narrowly...that 'just beyond' is the actual finishing of an 80 percent unit and fitting...ah maybe parts choice is part of it.
But MAN...that turned-out impressively. I've still not completely given-up on the P320... going to have to scratch that itch somehow. lol
Please do give us a range report!!
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The range reports comes down to this...
My favorite combination is the Wilson grip and the compact length (3.9) slide in 357 Sig. Really nice to shoot, no issues with reliability. Shot approximately two hundred rounds through this so far. About the same size as the Glock 32, but feels better to handle and a much nicer trigger. Mag changes are easy, they just eject right out of the grip.
Next down the line is the stock Sig module with the long M17 slide assembly. The Sig module is a bit fat in the grip area. But it works. This one has under one hundred rounds through it.
Least favorite is the hybrid Amend2. It is usable, and has functioned just fine so far, with around one hundred rounds through it. In a pinch, I could use this as a concealed carry pistol. It really feels top heavy... but yeah, it is top heavy by virtue of having the large slide tacked on to the diminutive grip. In a way it sortta reminds me of an oddball like the Japanese Type 94 pistol. But when you get right down to it, if you want a small pistol and it has to say "Sig" on it, just get a P365. By all means add the XTech mag extensions just to get the more reasonable grip area.
My favorite combination is the Wilson grip and the compact length (3.9) slide in 357 Sig. Really nice to shoot, no issues with reliability. Shot approximately two hundred rounds through this so far. About the same size as the Glock 32, but feels better to handle and a much nicer trigger. Mag changes are easy, they just eject right out of the grip.
Next down the line is the stock Sig module with the long M17 slide assembly. The Sig module is a bit fat in the grip area. But it works. This one has under one hundred rounds through it.
Least favorite is the hybrid Amend2. It is usable, and has functioned just fine so far, with around one hundred rounds through it. In a pinch, I could use this as a concealed carry pistol. It really feels top heavy... but yeah, it is top heavy by virtue of having the large slide tacked on to the diminutive grip. In a way it sortta reminds me of an oddball like the Japanese Type 94 pistol. But when you get right down to it, if you want a small pistol and it has to say "Sig" on it, just get a P365. By all means add the XTech mag extensions just to get the more reasonable grip area.
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Well, still waiting for the manual safety parts to show up. Another email from ModGuns appreciating my patience. Ahem, they have zero appreciation for just how thin my patience with them has become over this.
Meanwhile, a different vendor delivered a set of SigLite night sights (pn: SIGHT-SIGLITE-9357 ) to my mailbox today. Installation was a piece of cake as they are the same dimensions as the day sights that came on my P320C from the factory. Just measure and mark the position of the old sights on the slide. Drift them out of the dovetails with a hammer and punch. Then drive the new ones into the dovetails to the same location.
Now all three slides have the same night sight setup. They are not the same as the Sig X-Ray 3 sights on the other two slides, but I can't see any difference in the size, color, or brightness. Personally, I think Sig just re-branded the sights with a new name and doubled the price. So yeah, if you find a set of the discontinued SigLite sights, run with them and save the $45 markup of the X-Ray 3 sets.
Back to twiddling my thumbs.
Meanwhile, a different vendor delivered a set of SigLite night sights (pn: SIGHT-SIGLITE-9357 ) to my mailbox today. Installation was a piece of cake as they are the same dimensions as the day sights that came on my P320C from the factory. Just measure and mark the position of the old sights on the slide. Drift them out of the dovetails with a hammer and punch. Then drive the new ones into the dovetails to the same location.
Now all three slides have the same night sight setup. They are not the same as the Sig X-Ray 3 sights on the other two slides, but I can't see any difference in the size, color, or brightness. Personally, I think Sig just re-branded the sights with a new name and doubled the price. So yeah, if you find a set of the discontinued SigLite sights, run with them and save the $45 markup of the X-Ray 3 sets.
Back to twiddling my thumbs.
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Time to wrap this little adventure up. I started on May 9, and now they are finished on July 10. Replacements for parts lost in the mail arrived this afternoon, so the second MUP gets the manual safety added.
A few "family photos" now that they are all completed.
A few "family photos" now that they are all completed.