Tomorrow's targets

[Bongo Lewi]

I'm thinking Echelon. Or maybe the BUL Tomahawk. I'll decide tomorrow. 7 yards. 6 inch plates.

My usual. Three shots, repeat five times. Any flyers not on the plates, start over. Until all 15 rounds hit the mark. No timer. I'll be by myself.

 

[Racer88]

Such the "artiste!"

 

[One Ping Only]

7 Yards is good!

Why not take all 3, Lewi? heeharhee.
FWIW, I hope to get out to the range soon and give my Echelon some serious feeding of freedom seeds. Not planning on leaving out my .45 either....

 

[Bongo Lewi]

7 Yards is good!

Why not take all 3, Lewi? heeharhee.
FWIW, I hope to get out to the range soon and give my Echelon some serious feeding of freedom seeds. Not planning on leaving out my .45 either....

I usually shoot one so I don't get distracted by the differences between one or the other. Not as important it used to be since I do nothing for a living these days. Just an old habit.

BTW: I recently saw another one of those ODG Echelons. It's calling my name.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Echelon it was!

Like shooting fish in a barrel at 7 yards. This is why I like to shoot at 20-25 yards. It makes the shorter game so much easier.

The Echelon is really growing on me. Like my Hellcat, it feels good in the hand. Well designed grip, modest but effective bore axis. My beloved u channel sights - same as the HC (the one without the optic) . This really is a thoughtfully designed handgun. It's not that much bigger than the Hellcat pro. With appropriate clothing you could conceal it.

The Echelon leans toward the duty weapon realm, thus the trigger is suitable for that application. I'm not a trigger snob at all. I am not one of those guys that relentlessly argues that no striker gun can match the 1911 trigger. What-ever. I say shoot the gun you have and STFU. If you can't shoot well, it ain't the trigger that's the problem.

No Moe Green shot on this drill. I made an effort but failed. Even so... close enough. The bad guy would still have a bad day - and a major sinus headache for a second or two while his brain died. I've noticed that I am pulling to the right a little bit on the follow up shots. Not that unusual with a factory trigger. I wasn't managing the reset as well as I should. I'm better at that with the HC because I'm more practiced with that gun.

 

[One Ping Only]

I usually shoot one so I don't get distracted by the differences between one or the other. Not as important it used to be since I do nothing for a living these days. Just an old habit.

BTW: I recently saw another one of those ODG Echelons. It's calling my name.

I'm thinking extra plates for each sidearm. Noice!!

 

[One Ping Only]

"I am not one of those guys that relentlessly argues that no striker gun can match the 1911 trigger. What-ever. I say shoot the gun you have and STFU. If you can't shoot well, it ain't the trigger that's the problem."

For many shooters, it's not about being able to shoot the gun well or not, it's preference. I let my Glock GSSF discount coupon expire because I have all the "Glock" (SF) I can stand as it is with our clones.

Granted, the one pulling the trigger is the determining factor, aside from some absolutely hideous case of a bad trigger that might be a problem. That being said, I am (no surprise here) one of those who unashamedly finds that a striker-fired handgun of any kind will never have the quality of trigger that a 1911 can offer (there are certainly lesser or greater glaring differences thereof in the 1911 family). Consistent reports are that the Walther PDP has the best striker-fired trigger on the mkt today....but I do say that with ZERO personal experience...yet.

I shoot my 26 clone very, very well. It's scarily accurate. Yet my humble RIA Officers ECS .45 has an out-of-the-box trigger to aspire to in comparison...and that's with zero modifications or 'smithing of any kind. I'm not saying it's perfect or beyond improvement, but it's doggone GOOD.

Having said that- in agreement with one of your comments, I see no excuse why somebody can't shoot a striker-fired gun well. (again, unless it has a positively hideous trigger) And many do, and compete with them.
For that matter, many folks shoot their DA/SA revolvers more accurately SA due to the particular DA pull on a given sidearm. Some of that may be legitimate, some is likely personal mastery. That being said, my wife once had a Taurus 85 (DAO) w/bobbed hammer, and that was a 'personal space/short distance' kind of application anyways....its trigger wasn't too great. But it worked.

Back to striker vs hammer fired- there are physics and mechanical differences that make them what they are, and what they aren't. In BOTH cases, it's up to the user to do their part. For me- I just prefer a hammer-fired system. Even the FN Reflex shines because of their internal hammer. I'm looking at a Beretta PX4 that may, MAY replace my Echelon. We'll see. It's not eating any groceries....and it's one of the finest SF pistols made today, and I do have tentative plans for it. TWT.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Granted, the one pulling the trigger is the determining factor, aside from some absolutely hideous case of a bad trigger that might be a problem. That being said, I am (no surprise here) one of those who unashamedly finds that a striker-fired handgun of any kind will never have the quality of trigger that a 1911 can offer (there are certainly lesser or greater glaring differences thereof in the 1911 family). Consistent reports are that the Walther PDP has the best striker-fired trigger on the mkt today....but I do say that with ZERO personal experience...yet.

I dont disagree with any of what you said. I just don't bitch about triggers. If they are really that bad, I don't buy the gun. Problem solved. I dont believe a striker gun has a built in handicap vs. hammer. Proficiency is a matter of skill, training, and regular practice. Not the gun. That's all I'm saying.

There is no question the 1911 trigger is better than any striker pistol. It is equally undeniable that the best trigger in the world pulled by someone who never bothers to learn to shoot any fireman properly doesnt make any difference. Some time ago I shared a story about a challenge I accepted with man who had a very nice 1911 that must have cost close to 4-5 grand. I told him I could outshoot him with a $200 gun. He took the bait. I defeated him to the point of embarrassment with my Yeet Cannon. To his credit, he didnt welch on the bet and we had an awesome meal and enjoyable conversation - on his dime.

I have some really nice 1911s and their double stack derivatives and some of the modern 9mm variants. I love them all. The design is brilliant and timeless. Still relevant 100+ years later. Not too many inventions can make that claim. Best trigger on a striker gun? I agree Walther. With a nod to HK as well.

A different example is the original S&W Bodyguard and its infamous 10-11 lb pull. Oh! The things dickwads said about this tiny gun. That pistol was designed to be a last ditch. As in guy on top of you punching you in the head. The weight of the trigger is irrelevant in that scenario. The BG trigger was also intentionally heavy by design because a lot of people simply pocketed the gun. No holster. A lot of people do this. I have done it on a rare occasion, such as needing to wear nothing but swimming trunks to blend into a crowd. Even the best pocket holsters print in that situation. The only other gun that was better for that situation was the Beretta Pico. Which I think gets the prize for the thinnest, most concealable 380 ever. It also had a very heavy trigger. On purpose. That didn't make it a bad gun.

I have always agreed with the idiom that a poor carpenter always blames his tools. I dont know who said that first but I wish it was me.

 

[One Ping Only]

BL- uhh, if I’m not mistaken the issue of triggers wasn’t an issue in this thread….until….ahem…but yes, a bad mechanic blames his tools too. Same adage.

A lazy mechanic will shrug and say “that’s just a characteristic of the vehicle” , and walk off to diffuse any work orders he might have to do. Lol I worked with one of these clowns years ago. The entire shop knew his game.

 

[One Ping Only]

Bad trigger, don’t buy it. That’s a good place to start.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

There are no bad triggers. Only bad fingers.

 

[One Ping Only]

Now that’s vintage…

Triggers….many moons ago I was at a gun show and there was a table full of SKS’. One guy puts one rifle down after looking at it funny, pauses, and then walks off. Spidey senses told me to grab it…i checked it out and it had a phenomenal (for SKS) trigger. So unlike your usual faire of this kind. I bought it on the spot…as the other guy came back to the table to get it. The other SKS my wife had was nothing like this one’s trigger, not any iI’d came across afterwards…eventually, both were sold as I just don’t like them.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Now that’s vintage…

Triggers….many moons ago I was at a gun show and there was a table full of SKS’. One guy puts one rifle down after looking at it funny, pauses, and then walks off. Spidey senses told me to grab it…i checked it out and it had a phenomenal (for SKS) trigger. So unlike your usual faire of this kind. I bought it on the spot…as the other guy came back to the table to get it. The other SKS my wife had was nothing like this one’s trigger, not any iI’d came across afterwards…eventually, both were sold as I just don’t like them.

I have a VN battlefield pickup SKS that was gifted to me by the guy who picked it up.

It's an interesting curio. As a shooter... I'll just say I've seen better. I have a lot of respect for the riflemen of the past, carrying and fighting with heavy, wood stocked infantry rifles in challenging weather and terrain. I'm spoiled. I have been in some backwoods places that took ATVs and two days hiking with everything you need to stay alive. Every ounce feels like a pound. Although I did the same in the service of Uncle Sam every now and then, most of the time my trips like that were recreational and there was no enemy. The rifles and carbines I carried on those trips easily weighed half what an SKS, M1 or Mauser weighed. The majority of my gubbament days were urban. The guns were different because the threats were different.

I can't honestly say what gun is my favorite. It depends on the situation. Being out in the middle of nowhere in difficult terrain carrying a heavy loadout, my most common choice was my Tikka T3 Superlite in 7mm. Six pounds, sans the scope. The Finns know a lot about carrying long guns in inhospitable climates and mountains.