Question Warum Der Fueher's Schwanz den Bauch spritzen? 1939 K98 Sporter question...

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Warum Der Fueher's Schwanz den Bauch spritzen?
translation: why is the gun not hitting the target (sic) :D

1939 K98 Sporter barrel question...

This gun was given to me by my uncle and came from his late brother who sporterized it in the late 50s. I cleaned a lot of surface rust as it had been improperly stored for over 50 years. The bolt numbers do not match and I suspect the bolt was bought modified with the "spoon" handle. Aside from a total disassembly and cleaning, I've done a few 'smithy things to it like sanding the bedding so it passes the "dollar bill test", replaced the 1/8" random snipped rod with an actual Mauser 4mm pin, modified the "Bueller? Bueller?" safety so it would work and remounted the scope bases to be able to use the bigger scope. As-received (after cleaning) pic below.

k981.jpg gotobed.jpg triggerhappy.jpg k98bolt2.jpg k984.jpg

It came with 100rds of '36 surplus 8mm, 97 of which were duds and bullets were pulled from the Berdan-primed cases. The bullets are magnetic and appear to have a steel core. I've also bought and shot some PPU rounds through it (20/40). Targets were from about 5 years ago at 25 and 50yds with the old 4x-20 scope. The duds were shot at the gong at the 100yd range on a different date, I think. Load round, squeeze trigger, "click", wait, rinse, repeat 97 times. Only 2 of the rounds went off and 1 was a hangfire and took about three seconds to go off.

pull2.jpg pull1.jpg 8mm36.jpg targets2019.jpg

After the shooting, I did some of the work mentioned above and mounted the scope, a Bushnell 6-18x50. This was a BF "close-out" from Natchez and was $30 or $40 after rebate. :) $10 for the tall rings that I painted flat black from silver. That is the gun from the other day at the range.

2scopes.jpg k98a.jpg

I picked up a BUNCH of 8mm ammo at an auction. Apparently I was the only one with an 8mm because the guy bidding $20 for every lot did not go up to my winning bid of $25! :cool: Get a kick out of the 1971 Kmart pricing! :D I shot some of the 1944 vintage the other day and have at least 50rds more--it looks "new", is brass-cased and is boxer-primed. I don't know anything about the 1941 vintage other it was on stripper clips and some bullets are magnetic. Someone gave me the Nosler and Barnes bullets and I DO have a press and dies for 8mm. :unsure: But no powder or large rifle primers... :(

got8mm.jpg 8mm44.jpg target2024.jpg k98bolt1.jpg8mm41.jpg

Which leads us to my question: Is the barrel "shot" (ie: no good). From the pic on the bench, where I had removed the old leather sling and installed the bipod to the pic with the bolt, I fired 10 rounds of the 1944 vintage. First was all the way at the top, then I adjusted the scope down about a half turn which got us to the 10-ring, then each shot worked itself further and further away from the bullseye. :unsure: Last round was at the top of the target below. I lost a round somewhere because I only count 9. I figured 10rds was enough as the mosquitoes were trying to carry me away in the sun AND the wind (which was blowing/gusting about 10-15mph).

The barrel is filthy but where does the cleaning stop and rifling removal begin? I brushed the bore 4 times with about 20 patches used and it still kept coming out black. I can feel it is rough, especially close to the muzzle. A bore scope shows a lot of roughness in the grooves although the lands aren't terrible.

So what can I do to "save" this barrel? I don't really want to spend ANY money on this gun and it is of limited collector value with scope mounts drilled through the receiver. I'd like to get it accurate enough to shoot some hogs humanely...
 
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Lots of those were shot out or ruined with corrosive ammo that was never cleaned properly afterwards.

On the uptake, if it is ruined you can have the action rebarreled. The ‘98 Mauser action is a very good action. I miss my Mausers.
 
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Lots of those were shot out or ruined with corrosive ammo that was never cleaned properly afterwards.

On the uptake, if it is ruined you can have the action rebarreled. The ‘98 Mauser action is a very good action. I miss my Mausers.

I'm aware of the corrosive ammo issue. :(
My budget doesn't allow for a $300 barrel when that could nearly buy me a brand new gun in a "regular" caliber.

I'm wondering if there is a way to extrude a polishing paste or something like that through the barrel. :unsure:
 
Maybe check throat erosion, make cast and relaod accordingly if within tolerance.
Try lapping also.
Some older rifles have a counter bore done to remove the furbar at muzzle end. Have a couple M44 like that. Tack drivers.
 
Maybe check throat erosion, make cast and relaod accordingly if within tolerance.
Try lapping also.
Some older rifles have a counter bore done to remove the furbar at muzzle end. Have a couple M44 like that. Tack drivers.

Throat doesn't look too bad. Excuse the nearly 10yo snips of a bore scoping. One set going in from muzzle, one set going out from chamber. Crown looks OK as does the chamber. It may be hard to discern but the lands are "rougher" looking at the muzzle end vs mid-barrel and chamber end.

What is this "lapping" you speak of? :unsure:

muzzleend1.JPG muzzleend2.JPG chamberend1.JPG chamberend2.JPG chamberend3.JPG chamberend4.JPG
 
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That barrel looks pretty good given the history you mentioned. I'd keep cleaning it to get all the accumulated lead and carbon out. I have used fine lapping compound with copper or brass brushes on a variable speed drill to clean up old barrels when solvents just weren't getting the job done. Messy, but it works. You just have to clean the shit out of it when you are done to get all that grit out. If it's pitted, there's nothing you can do about it other than stop further corrosion.

I have a 7.7mm Arisaka that was pretty rusty. I gave it the treatment I mentioned above. It shoots OK. Mostly it's a wall hanger but it is fully functional. It performed OK at 100 yards. Good enuff for a collectible.

Agree spending money on a new barrel (unless it's really cheap) is not a good investment. You probably aren't going to any matches with this gun or deer hunting... so like some of my relics I just get them working reliably and mostly enjoy looking at them. Maybe put a few rounds thru them now and then just for shits and grins.

I'm not a hand loader so I cant comment on the ammo. Other than I avoid using ammo that is very old or reloads of unknown origin. I've managed to avoid scars on my face, still have all my fingers, and both eyes are functioning. I prefer to keep it that way as I approach the final third of my time on Earth. :). You can reload the brass since you have the tools and knowhow.

It suggest it might be a fun varmint gun. You aren't going to win any bench rest matches with it but I'll bet it will still be a decent groundhog shooter after some restoration work.
 
Those pics look rather good.
Ditch the BS cleaning solvents. Take the stock off.
Get a 5 gallon bucket of hot ass MF water and some dawn dish soap.
Cut a rag to patch around wire brush and go to town. Will need to replace rag/patch a couple times. Get some chamber brushes, mil surplus. Scrub till it hurts.
Solvents dont do shit for Black powder/ corrosive ammo. Hot soapy water and elbow grease. Its the olny way.
Then shoot some modern ammo.
Unfortunately this will be necessary for all time. Once you shoot corrosive ammo the salts are always there it seems. Maybe not as bad but will still rust badly if unchecked.

Get some RIGS or bore grease. After shooting run a patched down coating entire length of barrel WELL.
Just need to run a patch prior to shooting to remove it. Keeps everything fresh.
I have lots of old rifles and Black powder rifles. Not a speck of rust in 50+ years.

If you know a smith around or anyone with throat gauge Id still check. Or brownells has a casting kit/did/ $20 ???
 
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Stick muzzle in 4gallon water 1/2 bottle of dawn +/-.
Run brush up and down from chamber side pulling water up into barrel until you dont like me.
Then wrap a patch around brush and repeat till you want to shoot out my porch lights.
Clean water, check. Rust will form in minutes. But thats ok. Run grease down barrel and anywhere oxygen comes in contact with metal. Thin layer not butter on biscuits layer.
 
I've seen worse barrels shoot better and better barrels shoot worse. You could try a homemade electric bore cleaner. That will strip everything out of the barrel that isn't steel.

Now lets get into that rifle. It looks fully sporterized. That's what people did in the '50s and '60s when these were sold by the crate for $5-10 each. Most notable is the lack of steps on the barrel. It's spent some time on a lathe. The stepped barrel had certain harmonics that were accounted for during the design. Where the barrel touched the stock, bullet weight, powder charge, all baked into the cake. Now you have a barrel where all factors are different. I suspect that there is no surplus ammo or factory load that is going to shoot well. They were all developed for the standard barrel. The barrel may shoot best free floated, may be best with pressure on it somewhere. Bring some card stock with you next time you shoot it to see if closing the gap between the barrel and stock makes a difference. The receiver to stock interface isn't the same as modern free floated actions.

Get a bottle of Ballistol, soak the bore, leave it sopping wet for a day or 3, push a patch through clean out the gunk. Repeat until clean. I don't know what it is about that stuff but it works. Almost like it was specifically designed by a German for German guns.

What is the barrel length? It was probably shortened when sporterized so cleaning rod damage shouldn't be an issue.
 
Foaming bore cleaner works well too. one round of foam, one round of Ballistol. I had to do that one rifle. It cleaned up way better than I would have guessed.
 
For all of you that are not familiar with Ballistol, it is an amazingly versatile product. Invented for the German Army in 1904, it is a bore cleaner, a rust preventative, a wood preserver, a leather dressing, and even a topical first aid treatment.

 
Years ago (1990's), I used Sweet's (bore cleaner) on my FAL. It was good, especially for removing the copper fouling, fwiw. I'm sure there are better options today that are ammonia-free.
 
Years ago (1990's), I used Sweet's (bore cleaner) on my FAL. It was good, especially for removing the copper fouling, fwiw. I'm sure there are better options today that are ammonia-free.
When I started in High Power, Sweet's was the go to for copper removal. It works great, but just don't leave the bore wet with it for too long.
Today, the foaming bore cleaners are much better and less stinky.
 
Thanks for the suggestions, people! :) I'll try der Ballistol the next time I have the gun out of the safe--maybe in a week or two?

In related Mauser news, this came up in the local guntrader for $150. Not marked as to caliber, I asked the seller if it was 8mm and he has essentially talked me out of it... :D

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BTW, I already HAVE a 30.06 sporter, a M1917 US Enfield also given to me by my uncle. Also sporterized late 50s. The bolt handle was welded for scope clearance and rear sight is gone. The bore on this guy is beautiful, having escaped parade duty and not been fired since the 50s. I first fired it maybe 5yrs ago--100yo rifle firing 75yo surplus ammo... :D

It came with a drilled Weaver 3/4" side-mount and BB-gun scope :rolleyes:. (first pic) I found a Weaver 1" mount on debay for $20ish and mounted the 4x20 that had been on the Mauser. I should probably put some "real" scope mounts on top since the rear sight has already been milled off so whats a couple extra holes... :)

1917peashooter.jpg m1917full.jpg
 
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