What's the Future for P80 w/ Founder & CEO Loren Kelly | SHOT Show 2023

To be quite frank, Rook is the absolute last vendor I would want to produce that tool. Not due to quality, but simply because they can't even provide enough rails to meet demand working from their kitchen, so how in the world will they meet demand for a jig that works with all frames. From this perspective, they would be the absolute worst vendor for this unless they were partnered with an entity that had cash, resources and facilities to meet both staffing and physical deliver requirements.

I realize I'm criticizing the holy grail for some of you, but what I'm stating is fact. The way he operates Rook right now, it wouldn't work and would just lead to more frustration from an already frustrated customer base. Folksy, good 'ol boy emails explaining his small business growth woes will not get the job done. Those PF45 rear rails have been in pipeline for a year. Maybe longer. Yep, I realize he is juggling the ATF rules with his cash flow depending on how the wind blows with the ATF each week, but that isn't going to change the fact that there will be a hell of a lot more demand. That demand will be from a lot more folks than just the people in this forum who have the OCD qualiities necessary to want Rook rails. With a jig, his demand will now come from Ebay, Reddit and builders like in this forum. You'll have higher odds of winning the lottery than ever successfully purchasing a jig within a year's time frame from Rook. Just sayin' from experience.

Flame away. I lit the match and put on my suit. :D
:outta here:


fire-kill.gif
They are currently focusing on the things that most people want/ that 's in higher demand , the pf45 is an extremely niche market, he currently has rears in stock for the standards as well as most fronts. Yes he started small and has since added more machines and little by little is ramping up ( Good machins cost good money) . He also doesn't sell what he doesn't have like many vendors do ( I'm looking at you Glockstore) . He has since moved out of his home and gone full time into this business and currently has begun expanding his operation.

Rook rails will soon be available from other vendors in fact Wojtek Weaponry has already started carrying his front rails.

Last I talked to Peter the Uno needing to be modified changed the schedule slightly but not enough to matter and its still on track. I'll reach out and get a specific timeline. Here's the thing, It's not inexpensive to tool up for something like this especially considering the ability to swap between several frames not just P80. The Demand may or may not be what people say because let's be honest a lot of people talk like they are ready to buy and then when they get the opportunity ... well the demand is not equal to the hype so to speak.
Also consider this, he's a full time machine shop and this is one aspect of his business , albeit the thing that launched his business, but there are lows and highs in the firearm industry and market so you supplement with outside work to keep the capital flowing. Final food for thought, If the rear rails were easy to machine plenty of other companies would have copied them by now, thing is they aren't. When you machine something flat and thin like this it becomes a very difficult task.

That being said I believe he will absolutely be able to keep up with the demand with the jig.
 
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Wasn’t it P80 who did the strike 80 frames? Maybe he could buy-out their design and incorporate it into his product line. Michele, didn’t you say those were your favorite?

Yes indeed P80 made those fantastic strike frames we all love and wish would come back into production. Is a favorite of many builders, myself included. It feels just right and natural in my hand
My understanding is Rook is working with another creator to provide a very very low cost download option for a 3d printed strike frame.
 
From what I've seen / heard, there is a separate jig for the front locking block pin hole.
DLD hardware currently makes a one time use jig for the fourth hole ... or you can take an old frame with a 3mm punch ( or close ) stick it in each side of a jig respectively and mark each side , then drill the jig out and go from there for now.

 
To be quite frank, Rook is the absolute last vendor I would want to produce that tool. Not due to quality, but simply because they can't even provide enough rails to meet demand working from their kitchen, so how in the world will they meet demand for a jig that works with all frames. From this perspective, they would be the absolute worst vendor for this unless they were partnered with an entity that had cash, resources and facilities to meet both staffing and physical deliver requirements.

I realize I'm criticizing the holy grail for some of you, but what I'm stating is fact. The way he operates Rook right now, it wouldn't work and would just lead to more frustration from an already frustrated customer base. Folksy, good 'ol boy emails explaining his small business growth woes will not get the job done. Those PF45 rear rails have been in pipeline for a year. Maybe longer. Yep, I realize he is juggling the ATF rules with his cash flow depending on how the wind blows with the ATF each week, but that isn't going to change the fact that there will be a hell of a lot more demand. That demand will be from a lot more folks than just the people in this forum who have the OCD qualiities necessary to want Rook rails. With a jig, his demand will now come from Ebay, Reddit and builders like in this forum. You'll have higher odds of winning the lottery than ever successfully purchasing a jig within a year's time frame from Rook. Just sayin' from experience.

Flame away. I lit the match and put on my suit. :D
:outta here:


fire-kill.gif
Being new to pistol building I don't know enough about this industry or its players to agree or disagree. But a reusable metal jig makes total sense to me. As it did for AR builders.
 
DLD hardware currently makes a one time use jig for the fourth hole ... or you can take an old frame with a 3mm punch ( or close ) stick it in each side of a jig respectively and mark each side , then drill the jig out and go from there for now.

I'm curious... does this 4th hole jig work with the PF940SC AND the PF940V2?
 
I will say that I’ve not had the back order situ that USApat has faced that he speaks of. But my particular past orders have been their dimpled pin sets, and Smooth Operator safety plungers. All those orders shipped fast and the products are exemplary.


I plan to invest in some of their rail sets, but that’s just not in the budget at the moment, so I’ve no prior experience with them. Those who have, all seem to be quite pleased with them.
 
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I'm curious... does this 4th hole jig work with the PF940SC AND the PF940V2?
No. Front FRLB (4th) hole is in a different place for each, the Full Size (G17/G22, etc), Compact (G19, G23, G32), and the Sub-Compact (G26, G27, G33).

So, the jig would have to be specific for each model. As of right now, Polymer 80 has only released the 'new compliant' -or 'complaint':LOL:- versions in Compact and Full Size. No Sub Compacts as yet... These are currently being considered as a 'temporary measure' until the atf's rule is overturned, or an injunction applied to P80 like 80% Arms has for their GST-9. They only re-tooled to keep some cash-flow coming in and to continue providing their products to Free Builders. Not sure if the Sub Compacts will make it into production in this "76%" 'compliant' version needing the 4th hole.

@Michele is all over the Compact models' 4th hole jig, and will be getting the Full Size out for everyone too. I think she was a little incensed about a one-use 3D-Printed jig being sold for $25, gouging Builders. A little patience, that Patriot will come through and have what you need...;)
 
Not sure if I’d use word as strong as incensed… but Mr. Snow Makes busted out a jig very quickly to help the community and offered it out there for free, Middleton Made modded that jig and put his out there for free…
Does it take time to make thus stuff ? Sure
Does it cost money ? Yes..not that much. I have more filament in a bucket of waist than I used to mod the 4th hole.
In order to advance our community, move forward, continue building, keep our freedoms …I believe we should support each other with whatever skills we have. We have enough groups against us without our own community making it more difficult to keep the building alive with new builders. I’m not opposed to capitalism but I think we should help each other out. You get …what you give, what you put out into the universe… you receive back.
 
I'm OK with one time use and spending $25 on it. Lunch at McDonalds is 10 bucks now. Like building a pistol, it's not something I'm going to do every day. Or even once a month.

I would prefer a reusable metal jig that does it all of course.

I had a first generation Makerbot that I donated to a local, non-profit maker shop in Georgia. I've thought about replacing it with a new printer, just haven't gotten around to it yet.
 
No. Front FRLB (4th) hole is in a different place for each, the Full Size (G17/G22, etc), Compact (G19, G23, G32), and the Sub-Compact (G26, G27, G33).

So, the jig would have to be specific for each model. As of right now, Polymer 80 has only released the 'new compliant' -or 'complaint':LOL:- versions in Compact and Full Size. No Sub Compacts as yet... These are currently being considered as a 'temporary measure' until the atf's rule is overturned, or an injunction applied to P80 like 80% Arms has for their GST-9. They only re-tooled to keep some cash-flow coming in and to continue providing their products to Free Builders. Not sure if the Sub Compacts will make it into production in this "76%" 'compliant' version needing the 4th hole.

@Michele is all over the Compact models' 4th hole jig, and will be getting the Full Size out for everyone too. I think she was a little incensed about a one-use 3D-Printed jig being sold for $25, gouging Builders. A little patience, that Patriot will come through and have what you need...;)
Thx. Good info. I'll build what I can for now - within my noob skill level - and wait for the smoke to clear on all the regulation. I hope Polymer 80 is able to resume their normal business and product line. Seems unlikely to change until 2024.
 
Not sure if I’d use word as strong as incensed… but Mr. Snow Makes busted out a jig very quickly to help the community and offered it out there for free, Middleton Made modded that jig and put his out there for free…
Does it take time to make thus stuff ? Sure
Does it cost money ? Yes..not that much. I have more filament in a bucket of waist than I used to mod the 4th hole.
In order to advance our community, move forward, continue building, keep our freedoms …I believe we should support each other with whatever skills we have. We have enough groups against us without our own community making it more difficult to keep the building alive with new builders. I’m not opposed to capitalism but I think we should help each other out. You get …what you give, what you put out into the universe… you receive back.
Amen brother
 
I'm OK with one time use and spending $25 on it. Lunch at McDonalds is 10 bucks now. Like building a pistol, it's not something I'm going to do every day. Or even once a month.

I would prefer a reusable metal jig that does it all of course.

I had a first generation Makerbot that I donated to a local, non-profit maker shop in Georgia. I've thought about replacing it with a new printer, just haven't gotten around to it yet.
You only plan on building 1 ? This hobby is addictive you are among a community with P80 disease. We will enable you to build build build. 😊
 
This hobby is addictive you are among a community with P80 disease.

If you have P80 disease, visit "BentPistol.com" to learn more about treatment options.
 
You only plan on building 1 ? This hobby is addictive you are among a community with P80 disease. We will enable you to build build build. 😊
My minimum is 3. I'm already committed to that many!
 
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