"Good shoot?" Suspected Texas vehicle thief dies in shootout with vehicle owner who tracked him down.

What if you shoot the pie mid-flight, like skeet?
I could... I'm pretty good at clays. But it's hard to swing a 30-inch O/U 12 gauge in a crowded corridor!

Might be some collateral damage though. They dont make pie plates like they used to ;)

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Point of fact here: The truck owner did not "shoot the thief because the thief stole his truck." The truck owner presumably shot the thief in self-defense because the thief produced a firearm threatening and then using deadly force on the owner of the truck!

I'll not debate the mistakes the truck owner made in getting to that point, but a private citizen carrying a firearm for self-defense and being met with a deadly force threat, shoots TO STOP THE THREAT, just as an LEO is trained to shoot to stop the threat in the course of doing that increasingly difficult job. Unless there is evidence to the contrary, neither private citizen nor an LEO "shoots to kill." That distinction is important and that mindset should be part of any reputable training in self-defense, concealed carry courses, etc. OR if the private citizen is carrying where a license/permit is not required (such as we now have here in Florida and over half of these United States), then they need either seek out quality self-defense training that includes training on "use of force statutes." Alternatively they need study those statutes very thoroughly on their own, which can be daunting. Otherwise, the legal consequences can be dire! 🤠
I agree on all those self-defense points. Everybody has the right to defend themselves.

The problem I see in all of this is the owner introduced guns into the equation when he made them get out of the vehicle at gunpoint. That could be interpreted differently than a cut-and-dried self-defense case. The only people that know what ultimately led to gunplay are the truck owner, the girlfriend, and the guy who is dead. And he ain't talkin'.

You are right about all the facts not being known. The discussion is academic. But what if... the guy who owned the truck was a loose cannon, pissed off, and wanted to shoot the guy that stole his truck? It's plausible.
 
The discussion is academic. But what if... the guy who owned the truck was a loose cannon, pissed off, and wanted to shoot the guy that stole his truck? It's plausible.

Or he stole his truck AND killed his dog? And the truck owner's name is Johnny Brick?
 
Funny... Right now, wife and I are watching John Wick (1) for the umpteenth time, because it's the only thing on TV that is somewhat interesting. The JW series is comedy! Some funny stuff.
My wife sometimes calls me John Wick.

I wouldn't shoot a guy for stealing my truck. But kill my dog and there will be no quarter.
 
I agree on all those self-defense points. Everybody has the right to defend themselves.

The problem I see in all of this is the owner introduced guns into the equation when he made them get out of the vehicle at gunpoint. That could be interpreted differently than a cut-and-dried self-defense case. The only people that know what ultimately led to gunplay are the truck owner, the girlfriend, and the guy who is dead. And he ain't talkin'.

You are right about all the facts not being known. The discussion is academic. But what if... the guy who owned the truck was a loose cannon, pissed off, and wanted to shoot the guy that stole his truck? It's plausible.
We can "what if" this case to death. I'll stick with the known facts of this case and work from there. I'm guessing you're not from Texas, though. :unsure:

It'll be interesting to see if Attorney Andrew Branca, author of The Law of Self Defense - The Indispensable Guide for the Armed Citizen and his LOSD website will cover this case in one of his Legal Analysis videos sometime after he finishes his reading of the NYSRPA vs Bruen SCOTUS ruling. In the meantime, God bless Texas! 🤠
 
We can "what if" this case to death. I'll stick with the known facts of this case and work from there. I'm guessing you're not from Texas, though. :unsure:

It'll be interesting to see if Attorney Andrew Branca, author of The Law of Self Defense - The Indispensable Guide for the Armed Citizen and his LOSD website will cover this case in one of his Legal Analysis videos sometime after he finishes his reading of the NYSRPA vs Bruen SCOTUS ruling. In the meantime, God bless Texas! 🤠
Visitor only. I have boots but no hat. I have a cousin in Kerrville though. Does that count for anything?

It would be interesting to get a self-defense lawyer's analysis of this case.
 
The BIG fly in the Texas gun law ointment is their 30.06 / 30.07 sign laws - "No Guns" signs carry the weight of law. Booooooooooo!
I don't know if anyone heeds those signs in TX, but speaking of flying and carrying the weight of something, I hope I don't get the middle seat between these two. Unless it crashes. Then I will probably walk away without a scratch. Human airbags.
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I don't know if anyone heeds those signs in TX, but speaking of flying and carrying the weight of something, I hope I don't get the middle seat between these two. Unless it crashes. Then I will probably walk away without a scratch. Human airbags.View attachment 12739
I've never been known as overweight and have been a gym rat most of my adult life, but still felt like I was carrying more than I should. So I've gone to much more healthy diet, exercise regularly, and have lost 44 lb over the last 18 months (over 20% of my peak body weight). I'm even close to what I weighed when I graduated Basic Training in 1980, but it appears those two found it, plus a lot more, a whole lot more! 🤠
 
I say it was a good shoot made in self defense.

Fact: the deceased was sitting in a stolen truck- either by committing grand larceny or being an accessory/accomplice.

Fact: the vehicle owner was holding the people that were sitting in his truck at gun point to keep them there until the police arrived.

Fact: those attempting to hold the alleged thieves contacted the police and were awaiting police arrival, and whether those being held actually stole the truck or not they are connected/implicated in grand larceny.

Fact: alleged thief began shooting at the truck owner and it wasn’t until AFTER this point that the truck owner actually fired their weapon.

Also a fact: I’m not a lawyer, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I know that the burden to make a citizens arrest varies by local and state laws, however the rights and legal protections of people also change when they’re in the midst of breaking the law.

At a bare minimum (grand larceny aside), the deceased was in possession of stolen property with a high value and also in the process of being arrested when the deceased decided to start a shooting at people.
 
I am not a lawyer but here is a video from a couple of Texas lawyers discussing a Texan who tracked his truck that was stolen in Texas to Texas where he confronted, then shot to death the Texan who stole it... it might be relevant to this discussion. 🤔


View: https://youtu.be/M1Mm9M5y7vQ
 
I am not a lawyer but here is a video from a couple of Texas lawyers discussing a Texan who tracked his truck that was stolen in Texas to Texas where he confronted, then shot to death the Texan who stole it... it might be relevant to this discussion. 🤔


View: https://youtu.be/M1Mm9M5y7vQ

How DARE she call us "judgemental???" LOL! ;)
 
I generally like The Armed Attorneys channel, but all too often I find their video's too short on legal analysis of factual details of the cases they're discussing; i.e., too much "subjective" discussion of what "might be" or "might not be" and not enough "objective" discussion of each established fact and/or pointing out what facts still need to be nailed down. YMMV :unsure:
 
I say it was a good shoot made in self defense.

Fact: the deceased was sitting in a stolen truck- either by committing grand larceny or being an accessory/accomplice.

Fact: the vehicle owner was holding the people that were sitting in his truck at gun point to keep them there until the police arrived.

Fact: those attempting to hold the alleged thieves contacted the police and were awaiting police arrival, and whether those being held actually stole the truck or not they are connected/implicated in grand larceny.

Fact: alleged thief began shooting at the truck owner and it wasn’t until AFTER this point that the truck owner actually fired their weapon.

Also a fact: I’m not a lawyer, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I know that the burden to make a citizens arrest varies by local and state laws, however the rights and legal protections of people also change when they’re in the midst of breaking the law.

At a bare minimum (grand larceny aside), the deceased was in possession of stolen property with a high value and also in the process of being arrested when the deceased decided to start a shooting at people.
Very good post.
Would need to see the exact evidence, but your outline is accurate with the little information that exists now.

Bexar County is not a good place for this to have happened though IMHO. The Bexar Country Sheriff filed criminal charges against DeSantis not quite two months ago for shipping illegal Mexicans north. I think he sent them to the Hamptons if I recall correctly. The city is a liberal enclave with a huge chunk of illegal aliens and votes solid blue in the metro area. If it happened in the heart of the city, it may not be a favorable situation for this guy.

The only worst place it could happen would be a few miles further north in Austin. The Austin DA convicted a military man for shooting a BLM rioter/actvist sporting an AR15 and the rioter pointed it at the man first. The military man shot him dead with a hand gun from inside his car. It was in the national news recently.

Any major city in Texas now votes blue. Same as all the other larger states. Go look at voting results. It's depressing.

EDIT: I type faster than the keyboard's batteries can keep up with my fingers. It's frustrating to have so many typos and I don't like rereading my drafts. So many of my words are chopped, or changed typing at 150wpm or more pace. These two lines that I just typed had eight errors because the keyboard couldn't keep up with the gibberish.
 
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exercise regularly, and have lost 44 lb over the last 18 months (over 20% of my peak body weight). I'm even close to what I weighed when I graduated Basic Training in 1980, but it appears those t
Well done! I have a similar story. I was an all-sport as a kid. Boxing, wrestling, football, baseball, and track. In my late 20's I got lazy and soft. Traveling all the time and eating too much unhealthy restaurant food, drinking too much alcohol. I didn't gain a lot of weight but lost a lot of muscle and energy. In my early 30's I changed jobs and was in the gym almost every day. A year or so later, I was ripped. Lost about 25-30 lbs. Hiring a trainer made a huge difference. The guy was really good. What I had been taught about weight training, cardio and nutrition in my younger years was all wrong.

I'm not at fighting weight, but not too far from it. Most of my male friends, fam, and neighbors the same age are all shaped like apples and pears. That is what happens if you don't eat right and exercise when you hit middle age. It's hard to keep weight off after 40.
 
The perp's family are complaining about vigilantism... :rolleyes: Note how slimedia is calling the perp the "victim" :rolleyes:

A man identified by KENS 5 as being the brother of the victim told that station, "There are two sides to every story."

"Whether my brother was wrong or right, he had a gun pointed at him. I guess he took it upon himself to defend himself. The guy who shot him is a vigilante, not a hero," Jose Garcia told KENS 5. "A vehicle is not worth taking someone's life, I don't care what kind of car it is. You don’t take the law into your own hands. Now my mom, my family, we all have to suffer and just deal with it."


To quote the phrase "He was always such a good boy!" excuses are way old and over-used.

It sounds like the vehicle owner did the right thing, called police, tracked down the truck, rightfully confronted the perp since when seconds count, the police are minutes away. ;) What would you internet lawyers have him do? Let the perps get away? He was probably rightfully pissed off and did not want another unsolved crime. That is what it would have been because the cops would arrive, the perp would see them around the stolen truck coming out of the mall and hightail it out of there. Probably call his Piece Of Shit brother to give him a ride... :rolleyes:
 
It sounds like the vehicle owner did the right thing, called police, tracked down the truck, rightfully confronted the perp since when seconds count, the police are minutes away. ;) What would you internet lawyers have him do? Let the perps get away? He was probably rightfully pissed off and did not want another unsolved crime. That is what it would have been because the cops would arrive, the perp would see them around the stolen truck coming out of the mall and hightail it out of there.

The truck owner found the perp IN the truck (not coming out of the mall), if I understand correctly.

What would I have done? I would have been a very good witness while calling LE. If the guy left the mall in the truck, I'd follow him while on the phone with dispatch... reporting his location.

I would not have confronted the perp, even while armed. Too risky... in so many ways (as @Bongo Lewi listed).
 
The truck owner found the perp IN the truck (not coming out of the mall), if I understand correctly.

What would I have done? I would have been a very good witness while calling LE. If the guy left the mall in the truck, I'd follow him while on the phone with dispatch... reporting his location.

I would not have confronted the perp, even while armed. Too risky... in so many ways (as @Bongo Lewi listed).
Perp was out of the vehicle (according to the news story). S.A. C.O.P. indicated it was a "good" shoot...

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I stand corrected that he tracked down the truck, THEN called police... I do not know if the truck was already reported stolen...
 
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Perp was out of the vehicle (according to the news story)

Yes... the owner ORDERED them out of the truck and had them sit down next to it... at gunpoint. HUGE mistake, IMO.
 
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