FN - no static at all

[Bongo Lewi]

Interesting. So it’s the only the back strap that’s different?

 

[One Ping Only]

Interesting. So it’s the only the back strap that’s different?

No, there are three different frame module sizes, as well as the 3 back straps that Echelon ships with. So you have quite a bit of adjustability to see what you like the best.

Echelon ships with the "Medium" frame module and 3 back straps. But you can can also buy a large or small frame module from SA. The back straps are a separate part and size option. They ship with the firearm.

My apologies if what I wrote earlier confused ya.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

No, there are three different frame module sizes, as well as the 3 back straps that Echelon ships with. So you have quite a bit of adjustability to see what you like the best.

Echelon ships with the "Medium" fame module and 3 back straps. But you can can also buy a large or small frame module from SA. The back straps are a separate part and size option. They ship with the firearm.

My apologies if what I wrote earlier confused ya.

I looked at the at the web site and they don't make it very clear. You confirm my initial suspicion that the small frame is physically smaller, presumably just the grip. Each size also offering interchangeable back straps. There's only one slide length available today.

I agree the XD/m should go on. Great platform. There's been speculation that the Echelon would replace it but I dont see any signs of that coming from SA.

Springfield is really on a roll. The owner of my LGS tells me that his distributor indicated SA have begun outselling Kimber in the 1911 space. I'm not shocked, given Kimber's notorious QA issues in recent years.

I've not pulled the trigger on the Echelon because I really want a smaller, compact version.

 

[One Ping Only]

Right, they only offer the original slide size at the moment. I can't wait to see them offer compact and subcompact variants, with corresponding frame modules!

The XD-M Elite OSP 3.8" I'm drawn towards in 10mm, instead the Glock 29. I just think the trigger will be so much better, and likely handle better as well. There is also quite an aftermarket for upgrades if one is inclined - like a SS grip safety instead of the SA plastic unit, and so forth.

I haven't had one of SA's 1911's in my mitts yet, but have been eyeballing the Garrison...and a few others of theirs....have never heard anybody who owns a SA 1911 express anything but praise for theirs & don't recall anyone having a negative experience with them, though I'm sure there may be a few here and there.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

I have the 10mm XD in full and compact. As much as I like my G20, the Springfield's are more refined. I consider the XD/M in 10mm the best of breed in the polymer/striker world.

The EMP is an evolved version of the original 1911 design. Great 9mm carry gun. As is the Ronin

The TRP is among the best semi-customs. Match shooters love 'em.

Garrison... classic, well made 1911. I like the blued model.

Springfield has something for everyone in 1911's. Unlike Kimber, whose pistols are all the same on the inside, SA has tailored their 1911 product line with multiple levels of refinement. Excellent fit and finish across the board. They also tend to run well right out of the box and not lean on 'break-in' to excuse poor QA.

 

[One Ping Only]

Went to a LGS in Medford today. While there were a few out of stock I was hoping to sample of various calibers and sizes in mind for different things , one of my items of focus was a high cap small (micro) carry solution to replace my P938. We had the 365’s, S&W CSX, and the FN Reflex (in FDE & wearing basic black) out on the counter side by side. Once I tried the Reflex’s trigger it ruined me for any of its competitors. The CSX wasn’t in a fair fight there…lol.

And you know what? My wife loves it too, though she/we hadn’t shot one yet…but she can easily cycle the action instead of fighting her 26 and 19 clones. Light at the end of the tunnel!

Also checked out some 2011’s, a few 1911’s and that nice Springfield SA-35 high power clone. Sadly, they did not have a XD Elite 3.8 10mm in stock to check out. I understand they are about the size of a G19. Nothing like firsthand handling. But we had fun.

Thanks BongoLewi for the tip on the reflex!!!

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Went to a LGS in Medford today. While there were a few out of stock I was hoping to sample of various calibers and sizes in mind for different things , one of my items of focus was a high cap small (micro) carry solution to replace my P938. We had the 365’s, S&W CSX, and the FN Reflex (in FDE & wearing basic black) out on the counter side by side. Once I tried the Reflex’s trigger it ruined me for any of its competitors. The CSX wasn’t in a fair fight there…lol.

And you know what? My wife loves it too, though she/we hadn’t shot one yet…but she can easily cycle the action instead of fighting her 26 and 19 clones. Light at the end of the tunnel!

Also checked out some 2011’s, a few 1911’s and that nice Springfield SA-35 high power clone. Sadly, they did not have a XD Elite 3.8 10mm in stock to check out. I understand they are about the size of a G19. Nothing like firsthand handling. But we had fun.

Thanks BongoLewi for the tip on the reflex!!!

No problemo. Sounds like you had a fun day at the range!

The SA35 is a really nice full size handgun. A bit too large for me as a carry but I would if I didn't have to conceal it. Perfect for the range or home defense though. All the less desirable aspects of the original Browning High Power design were improved.

G4G is awesome and they do have the compact XD 10mm in stock. Their prices are great and there's often no shipping, cc fees or tax. Springfield Armory XD-M Elite Compact OSP 10MM 3.80″ Barrel Optic Cut Black Includes 2 Mags 11Rd | Good 4 Guns

 

[One Ping Only]

After handling the SA-35, I was shocked at how svelte it actually is for a full-size, high capacity pistol...I haven't handled one in 40+ years, so it was a re-acquaintance with that platform. Very nice. Daddy LIKE!

Re the Reflex: Some would balk BC there is no manual safety lever, and while society has been conditioned to think they should be standard on semiautos, I would like to draw our attention to SA/DA revolvers- many have been carried for decades with not much ado about accidental discharges or "Glock leg"

...like you said in a post earlier, BL, it's all about safe handling and keeping your finger OFF the trigger until needed, and practice safe holstering....with a safe holster as well. While a manual safety would be welcome and is displayed (allegedly) in the Reflex manual, it's not a deal-breaker for us without one.

Meanwhile- we'd snagged new MS housing, spring, and hogue grip upgrade for the P938 as this one is a 2014 model, it's only had about 20 rounds or less through it (2-tone, AMBI, black wood grips, night sights), and I'm thinking of flipping it as the Reflex is actually thinner than the P938 by a hair. Such an amazing feat!

(edit) while the 365 range is also a great platform and hot with many options, It's trigger doesn't compare to the reflex, IMO.

I was hoping they might have had a HK P30SK to check out, but they did not...and at 1.37" in width is chubbier than the Reflex. Maybe actual carry masks that somewhat.

Thank you for the referral & link for the XD-M Elite, BL!

 

[Bongo Lewi]

After handling the SA-35, I was shocked at how svelte it actually is for a full-size, high capacity pistol...I haven't handled one in 40+ years, so it was a re-acquaintance with that platform. Very nice. Daddy LIKE!

Re the Reflex: Some would balk BC there is no manual safety lever, and while society has been conditioned to think they should be standard on semiautos, I would like to draw our attention to SA/DA revolvers- many have been carried for decades with not much ado about accidental discharges or "Glock leg"

...like you said in a post earlier, BL, it's all about safe handling and keeping your finger OFF the trigger until needed, and practice safe holstering....with a safe holster as well. While a manual safety would be welcome and is displayed (allegedly) in the Reflex manual, it's not a deal-breaker for us without one.

Meanwhile- we'd snagged new MS housing, spring, and hogue grip upgrade for the P938 as this one is a 2014 model, it's only had about 20 rounds or less through it (2-tone, AMBI, black wood grips, night sights), and I'm thinking of flipping it as the Reflex is actually thinner than the P938 by a hair. Such an amazing feat!

(edit) while the 365 range is also a great platform and hot with many options, It's trigger doesn't compare to the reflex, IMO.

I was hoping they might have had a HK P30SK to check out, but they did not...and at 1.37" in width is chubbier than the Reflex. Maybe actual carry masks that somewhat.

Thank you for the referral & link for the XD-M Elite, BL!

Since you are still browsing.. The trigger on the Walther is best of breed in striker guns IMHO. The 4 inch compact PDP is not as diminutive as the Reflex, but it's sweet. The grip design (both shape and texture) on the Walther is also a cut above. The PDP F model is almost identical but tweaked for smaller hands. They started out with the goal of marketing that to women gun buyers but a lot of men bought them too.

I'm an HK fan as well. It ranks pretty well with the Walther.

The Reflex is becoming my casual EDC now that the weather is getting warmer and I'm wearing lighter clothes. So easy to conceal and the trigger as we have discussed is pure heaven for a small handgun. I still keep my Hellcat in the rotation but the reflex has won the day for when I'm sporting shorts and a t-shirt.

 

[One Ping Only]

"The Reflex is becoming my casual EDC now that the weather is getting warmer and I'm wearing lighter clothes. So easy to conceal and the trigger as we have discussed is pure heaven for a small handgun"

-Exactly my train of thought process, BL.

You know, I've heard many glowing praises of the PDP... my hands are pretty good sized- large but lean, guitarists' hands...maybe the PDP F variant for the missus would be appropriate.

While in the valley of decision(s) I want to try as many variants as I can. The XD-M, HK and modern Walthers I've not yet tried.

A family member is getting my Echelon....as good as it is, and it IS good, it just doesn't do it for me and I'm moving on. With maybe one exception, I'm done with SF pistols and on overload.

aside from the Reflex or other similar EDC option, I can see a SA-35 in my future, as well as a 1911 variant to replace the one I sold my dad years ago. Good old John Moses Browning designs...

 

[Bongo Lewi]

"The Reflex is becoming my casual EDC now that the weather is getting warmer and I'm wearing lighter clothes. So easy to conceal and the trigger as we have discussed is pure heaven for a small handgun"

-Exactly my train of thought process, BL.

You know, I've heard many glowing praises of the PDP... my hands are pretty good sized- large but lean, guitarists' hands...maybe the PDP F variant for the missus would be appropriate.

While in the valley of decision(s) I want to try as many variants as I can. The XD-M, HK and modern Walthers I've not yet tried.

A family member is getting my Echelon....as good as it is, and it IS good, it just doesn't do it for me and I'm moving on. With maybe one exception, I'm done with SF pistols and on overload.

aside from the Reflex or other similar EDC option, I can see a SA-35 in my future, as well as a 1911 variant to replace the one I sold my dad years ago. Good old John Moses Browning designs...

In the non custom 1911 arena I like the TRP. The bobbed carry model is the bomb. For a little more, there’s BUL. The SAS Ultra in sub or compact is as close to a double stack Staccato as it gets - for a thousand bucks less. I carried the BUL SAS w/ 4.5 barrel on several gigs. Hard to beat it in the 2011 realm without spending a lot more. Only problem is you have to wait your turn to get one. They usually sell out in one day.

SA recently refreshed the TRP line. Every bit as good as when SOCOM adopted the TRP back in the early 2000’s.

 

[One Ping Only]

Thank you for taking the time and your input, BongoLewi...really appreciate it. Do you favor 4.25 or a 5" barrel 1911's in .45acp? Mine was a Commander...but I know some .45acp buffs only want the 5" barrel to maximize velocity because it's so intrinsically slow in comparison to 9mm...in fact, the Commander was originally chambered in 9mm as I'm sure you're aware.

The SAS Ultra is a bad boy double stack and I have never seen one in the wild yet...I had RIA's 10mm double stack in my hands yesterday. that sucker is substantial....and those TRP's are SWEET!

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Thank you for taking the time and your input, BongoLewi...really appreciate it. Do you favor 4.25 or a 5" barrel 1911's in .45acp? Mine was a Commander...but I know some .45acp buffs only want the 5" barrel to maximize velocity because it's so intrinsically slow in comparison to 9mm...in fact, the Commander was originally chambered in 9mm as I'm sure you're aware.

The SAS Ultra is a bad boy double stack and I have never seen one in the wild yet...I had RIA's 10mm double stack in my hands yesterday. that sucker is substantial....and those TRP's are SWEET!

I don't worry about lower velocity in a defensive pistol. The overwhelming odds are that if you need to pull the trigger, the conflict is going to be up close and personal. It bears mentioning that higher velocity - over penetration - can be an issue in a home defense situation.

The shorter barrel is more concealable, lighter. It also clears the leather faster. If I wasn't concealing, I'd grab the Gov't Model because the longer barrel has a few obvious advantages. At defensive range the 45 ACP in any 1911 variant is more than adequate. I have no concerns about my Baby Rock, which is 3 inches. Despite the short length, the perp standing on the wrong side of the muzzle is still going to have a bad day.

I do also like the 1911 in 9mm. But mainly because of capacity and modernity. Some of the newest offerings in the 1911 realm are 'evolved' and have design features and functionality that are an improvement over the Browning original. Purists hate to hear that but it's a fact. The BUL and Staccato are good examples. As are the various Nighthawk, Ed Brown, and Wilson Combat 9mm 1911s. All of them are better guns than what Dad or Grandad may have been issued by Uncle Sam in 1943. John Browning himself would agree. I think he would also be amazed at how many of his brilliant designs were still being used a century later.

The RIA is heavy for sure. But it's a badass 10mm doublestack. I went with that as a bear gun after numerous disappointments with the more expensive Kimber Camp Guard. The Tisas and Girsan are just as reliable as the RIA in 10mm. The Turks are not fancy finish-wise, but they always go bang and the price is hard to beat.

I'd definitely put that PDP-F in Mrs. OPO's hand before making a decision if she's looking for a new pistol. The design was strongly influenced by female pro shooters.

 

[One Ping Only]

One more thing... the PDP-F variant may be a bit too much for her to cycle, as it's a striker-fired unit; but we'll see. It may be more compliant than her 26 or her 19's. Thanks again for being gracious about my sideways hijack on your thread, BL. That said, it truly centers on the FN Reflex...

As far as the Turkish handguns you mentioned, those are also under consideration along with RIA...I don't have the Cast vs Forged frames hangup that some do (Tisas uses forged..), and the Turkish sidearms overall seem to be pretty robust and can take a lot of rounds through them. Metallurgy being what it is, there are advantages and tradeoffs with both- even Caspian uses cast frames...as do those myriad of polymer wonders, lol. Now done with the hijack. snort....

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Threads are conversations. The best of them often meander.

Like velocity in a defensive weapon, I dont worry about metallurgy either. If the gun were expensive I'd consider the merits of forged vs cast I suppose. To put that in perspective, the Hi Point comes with a lifetime guarantee. The frame and slide are more or less a cheap, cast alloy. I've put somewhere around 1000 rounds thru my Yeet Cannon. Runs like a champ. No cracks, hasn't blown up... High Point offers that gun and others in 10mm as well as the traditional 9mm. I haven't heard any news of them failing due to the higher pressure of the 10mm round.

In my past life as an armed personal security professional, I only carried the best. Before that as an armed agent, most of the popular duty weapons including pistols, subguns and AR's. All the best of breed. Only the very best ammo too. Reason being... a weapon failure could end badly for me and others in my purple circle.

Living life as a private citizen with no place to go and all day to get there, I want concealability, light weight, reliability, and affordability. Long term durability and build quality are not irrelevant, but they are less important. A handgun for personal protection will never have to endure the rigors of a duty or combat weapon. Not even close. Any modern handgun today that comes from the mainstream gunmakers is not going to wear out and wont fail if you maintain it properly and use good ammo. Unless it's a new Kimber

The moral of my diatribe and personal philosophy is that for self defense, I always advise others to buy the pistol that fits their hand well, train properly, practice a lot, and don't overthink the gun's attributes. Another consideration is in the event one does find themself in a shooting incident, you may have to rack the slide on the pavement or beat the perp with it if you are empty. If you survive the gun will absolutely be taken into evidence while the investigation or trial is conducted. I'd hate it if that was a $6000 Cabot!

 

[Racer88]

I'd hate it if that was a $6000 Cabot!

Of course, I don't need a $6k Cabot (whatever that is) to defend myself. A Glock at 1/10th the price will definitely get the job done. But I figure my life is worth at least $6k. So, if that's what it took to save it, I'd get over the monetary loss... and buy another one.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Of course, I don't need a $6k Cabot (whatever that is) to defend myself. A Glock at 1/10th the price will definitely get the job done. But I figure my life is worth at least $6k. So, if that's what it took to save it, I'd get over the monetary loss... and buy another one.

Better Than Custom 1911 Pistols - Cabot Guns - 100% Made in the USA

Cabot Guns - makers of custom 1911 Pistols Handbuilt in the USA. The finest craftsmanship, materials and gunsmithing available on a custom 1911.

cabotguns.com

I can't argue with that. Still, I'd rather crack the bad guy's skull with a Turkish 1911 vs one that costs the equivalent of a kidney. I don't care if it's forged or cast.

You cant beat an egg with a polymer gun.

 

[One Ping Only]

"Another consideration is in the event one does find themself in a shooting incident, you may have to rack the slide on the pavement or beat the perp with it if you are empty. If you survive the gun will absolutely be taken into evidence while the investigation or trial is conducted. I'd hate it if that was a $6000 Cabot!"

That too, has been swirling around in my thought process, regarding a CC pistol. Imagine having to throw-down your Nighthawk, Wilson, or Cabot on the pavement by order of LE.

"Uhh officer, I'm just going to throw this over on the grass, please..."

 

[Bongo Lewi]

"Another consideration is in the event one does find themself in a shooting incident, you may have to rack the slide on the pavement or beat the perp with it if you are empty. If you survive the gun will absolutely be taken into evidence while the investigation or trial is conducted. I'd hate it if that was a $6000 Cabot!"

That too, has been swirling around in my thought process, regarding a CC pistol. Imagine having to throw-down your Nighthawk, Wilson, or Cabot on the pavement by order of LE.

"Uhh officer, I'm just going to throw this over on the grass, please..."

Could be worse... Cop says drop the gun and you have a P80 made from a 75% frame and Chung King frame parts that were on sale. Bad time to find out that firing pin lug engagement isn't quite right.

 

[One Ping Only]

Could be worse... Cop says drop the gun and you have a P80 made from a 75% frame and Chung King frame parts that were on sale. Bad time to find out that firing pin lug engagement isn't quite right.

View attachment 19215

Chung King parts come with fortune cookie?