4 law enforcement officers killed in shooting at Charlotte, North Carolina

[Racer88]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/29/us/officers-shot-charlotte-north-carolina/index.html

Am I understanding this correctly?

<<< The shooting unfolded in the 5000 block of Galway Drive as members of the US Marshals Fugitive Task Force were serving a warrant for possession of firearm by a convicted felon, Jennings said.
The officers were met with gunfire from a “high-powered rifle” and returned fire, fatally shooting a suspect in the front yard of the house. Jennings said the US Marshals had been serving the warrant to that suspect.
“As officers approached, they received additional gunfire from inside the residence,” the police chief said.>>>

So the "person of interest" was DOWN in the front yard. The officers approached that suspect and were then (unexpectedly) fired upon by OTHER people inside the house?

If so, is it SOP to not secure the entire area (including the house) before... well... turning their backs - so to speak - on the residence from which the suspect emerged?

 

[Bongo Lewi]

The guy in charge, who was a US Marshall, appears to have fucked up and got himself and the others killed. They were there to arrest a felon on a firearms charge and were standing in the yard when the perp climbs out a window, opens fire and there’s no cover? WTF. This is a textbook example of how cops get killed.

Two others killed were corrections officers (another WTF) who may not know jack about this kind of extraction.

It’s unusual for a US Marshall to make such a colossal error in judgement. Maybe the full story isn’t being told. The article is CNN, so I wouldn’t take their facts too literally - yet.

I feel bad for the families of the officers killed. Chasing fugitives is a dangerous job for sure. If the facts stated are true, this didn’t have to happen.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Commenting on the tragedy, Biden calls for an assault weapons ban. He added, “Enough is Enough. Pause. Wait for paid attendees to applaud.”

 

[no4mk1t]

 

[no4mk1t]

Deceased suspect identified in fatal shooting of four officers in N.C.

Terry Clark Hughes Jr., 39, had been wanted on a felony charge of fleeing to elude arrest in connection with a Jan. 6 incident in Lincoln County.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[no4mk1t]

<<< The shooting unfolded in the 5000 block of Galway Drive as members of the US Marshals Fugitive Task Force were serving a warrant for possession of firearm by a convicted felon, Jennings said.
The officers were met with gunfire from a “high-powered rifle”

Strange, not too many years ago, the AR15 was called a "poodle shooter" and not legal to hunt deer size game in most states.
During the M16's adoption, it was referred to as an "intermediate powered cartridge". But that doesn't sound as good in a press release...

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Not revealed: How a career criminal obtained the firearms. An AR and 40 cal handgun recovered from the scene. Interesting that this isn’t mentioned.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Strange, not too many years ago, the AR15 was called a "poodle shooter" and not legal to hunt deer size game in most states.
During the M16's adoption, it was referred to as an "intermediate powered cartridge". But that doesn't sound as good in a press release...

Stoner designed the gun for infantry use as we all know. The Pentagon embraced it because it’s good at killing people in the hands of relatively unskilled personnel and it’s done well at that since the 1960s in spite of the opinions of the opinionated. It’s never been a poodle shooter. Those in love with WW2 weapons are among those who have been shoveling that horseshit for years.

"Oh, an AR? How cute. Get a real rifle ", said everybody’s great grandpa who also loved his ‘48 Packard and swore it was the best car ever made.

I agree the term "high powered" is ridiculous and means nothing. What would a "low powered" rifle be?

Personally, I’m not an AR aficionado. But there’s no denying the effectiveness of the platform in doing what it was designed to do for 50+ years. Now that Stoner's AR is approaching the last years of military service, there will be a flood of haters who say the AR design was superior to whatever replaces it. Human nature to fall in love it inanimate objects from our youth:

When plastic begins replacing brass at scale there will be outrage. It’s already coming. A generation from now brass casings will be fondly remembered and hoarded by owners of 20th century guns and primers will cost as much as a kidney if you can find them. True Velocity's New Polymer-cased Ammunition - Guns and Ammo

 

[Racer88]

I agree the term "high powered" is ridiculous and means nothing. What would a "low powered" rifle be?

The fact is that the .223 cartridge is the LOWEST power centerfire round on the market. The lowest. Not one of the lowest. Not the third lowest. THE lowest. A .308 packs about 2 times the ballistic energy.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

The fact is that the .223 cartridge is the LOWEST power centerfire round on the market. The lowest. Not one of the lowest. Not the third lowest. THE lowest. A .308 packs about 2 times the ballistic energy.
View attachment 19440

It still can kill at twice the impact of a 357 magnum. The hole will just be a little smaller. You don't hear anyone say, "Just so you know, the AK 7.62x39 is really not very powerful." This is the kind of thing nimrods debate on the internet.

I have been shot with an AK. The round penetrated a car door, went thru my calf and out the other door. I'll bet a 223 Rem or its NATO equivalent hurts just as much, but after passing thru one's pink squishy insides it might not go thru the opposite door on the vehicle you are sitting in!

It makes me chuckle when people debate the caliber decisions for light arms made by literally every military organization in the modern world. I guess the fat, zit face kid sitting in the darkness of his mothers basement knows more about combat and killing enemies more efficiently than the DoD, Pentagon, The UK Strategic Command, NATO, the former Soviet Union or today's Russia, et al.

Right gun and caliber for the right job. For the longest time, Mossad assassins carried 22LR Berettas, often used with shorty suppressor. The Mob famously used 22's to whack people... two shots behind the ear was the protocol. Reason being, the 22LR tends to bounce around inside the skull turning the brain to Jello vs. going clean thru. The lowly 22LR can easily kill a human or anything else with a pulse at a fraction of the ballistic performance of an AR round.

It's true the AR round was not designed for hunting big game and some states prohibited use of the AR for hunting. There are many other restrictions on guns and ammo types used for hunting, enforced at the state level. The AR was made for soldiers to kill enemy combatants at close range, not a 1000 lb bull elk at 500 yards.

Sampson killed 10,000 Philistines with the jawbone of an ass. Caliber debates on the interwebs are often fought with the same weapon.

 

[Racer88]

It still can kill at twice the impact of a 357 magnum. The hole will just be a little smaller. You don't hear anyone say, "Just so you know, the AK 7.62x39 is really not very powerful." This is the kind of thing nimrods debate on the internet.

My point is to counter the media and political narrative that the AR-15 is a "high power rifle," and that nobody "needs" it.

It's the weakest centerfire rifle on the market. If they are concerned about the "power" of rifles in civilian hands, they are barking up the wrong tree.

Of course, that's NOT their concern. Their goal is to disarm American citizens. Naturally, the most popular rifle in America would be their first target for elimination. The power of the specific cartridge / rifle has nothing to do with it. All manner of hunting rifles are FAR more powerful.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

My point is to counter the media and political narrative that the AR-15 is a "high power rifle," and that nobody "needs" it.

It's the weakest centerfire rifle on the market. If they are concerned about the "power" of rifles in civilian hands, they are barking up the wrong tree.

Of course, that's NOT their concern. Their goal is to disarm American citizens. Naturally, the most popular rifle in America would be their first target for elimination. The power of the specific cartridge / rifle has nothing to do with it. All manner of hunting rifles are FAR more powerful.

The meaning of power is also unclear. The potential rate of fire in rounds per minute? Capacity? Maybe that is what defines powerful in the minds of certain nimrods. Or reporters just like to use drama to get dumb people to read their drivel.

I get the feeling that any long gun that's black is somehow powerful in the minds of gun haters.

My not so subtle point was it never occurred to me that being shot with an AR vs an AK might have been more enjoyable.

 

[Bobster]

The fact is that the .223 cartridge is the LOWEST power centerfire round on the market. The lowest. Not one of the lowest. Not the third lowest. THE lowest.

I kinda hate to say this, but you ARE mistaken. That claim goes to the .222 Remington, the .223's predecessor... While rare here, it is still semi-popular in Europe where "military" calibers (ie: 223/5.56) are forbidden for civilian use. (.222 on right)

 

[Racer88]

I kinda hate to say this, but you ARE mistaken. That claim goes to the .222 Remington, the .223's predecessor... While rare here, it is still semi-popular in Europe where "military" calibers (ie: 223/5.56) are forbidden for civilian use. (.222 on right)

View attachment 19472

LOL! Well... I did say "on the market" - presumably the American market.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

I also found .380 to attract a lot of nabobs of negativity. Repeaters of interwebs nonsense.

“Yea, but if the guy is wearing denim it won’t penetrate”.

My usual response:

Uh huh. Try it on yourself then. Let me know how that goes. Levi’s body armor. Denim shirt and jean jacket. Complete that ensemble with jorts!

 

[Bongo Lewi]

This guy. Completely 22LR and 380 bulletproof outfit. On sale at Macys.

This was verified by an expert named Bobby Joe Ray Bob on you tube who shot several rump roasts and a watermelon wrapped in these articles. Yet some people will still ignore the science. Never doubt the opinion of a YouTube gun expert who has a beard and tats.

 

[clm2112]

I also found .380 to attract a lot of nabobs of negativity. Repeaters of interwebs nonsense.

Yeah, I find these general public comparisons a bit frustrating. There are too many variables involved, like the 308 vs 30-06 comparisons. For the type of bullets I shoot (the 168gr SMK or hunting equivalent) the cartridges are ballistically identical... they'll both easily reach my target velocity of 2650 fps and deliver the same energy to the target. One just needs a little more propellant as filler in the extra case volume.

Same goes for comparisons of the 223 against other calibers. I can put an 77gr or 80gr VLD on it and drop Bambi with the same efficiency as a 243 Win. Just a different recipe to achieve the same results. (Like Humans, it doesn't take much to bring your average Bambi down.)

Really, the extra adjectives the media feels the need to tack onto everything for effect kinda makes me want to wretch. Sadly, decades of writers of the Guns & Ammo ilk have fed into this. We all know why they do it, to make their prose spicy and entertaining. But it can be used against us as well when the author has fear-mongering in mind.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Yeah, I find these general public comparisons a bit frustrating. There are too many variables involved, like the 308 vs 30-06 comparisons. For the type of bullets I shoot (the 168gr SMK or hunting equivalent) the cartridges are ballistically identical... they'll both easily reach my target velocity of 2650 fps and deliver the same energy to the target. One just needs a little more propellant as filler in the extra case volume.

Same goes for comparisons of the 223 against other calibers. I can put an 77gr or 80gr VLD on it and drop Bambi with the same efficiency as a 243 Win. Just a different recipe to achieve the same results. (Like Humans, it doesn't take much to bring your average Bambi down.)

Really, the extra adjectives the media feels the need to tack onto everything for effect kinda makes me want to wretch. Sadly, decades of writers of the Guns & Ammo ilk have fed into this. We all know why they do it, to make their prose spicy and entertaining. But it can be used against us as well when the author has fear-mongering in mind.

Yep. Gun makers are not without blame. They are guilty of positioning the AR and similar long guns at 'tactical', 'military grade', and use examples in ads of dudes in full combat dress. Gun makers and resellers helped created the 'assault rifle' myth in advertising. It sells guns. Nothing gives a dweeb living in Mom's basement a bigger woodie than imagining himself as a combatant. Emphasis on imagine. The guy who tells his friends about the time he almost joined the Marines. Like Private Dunkin' here:

 

[Racer88]

They are guilty of positioning the AR and similar long guns at 'tactical', 'military grade', and use examples in ads of dudes in full combat dress. Gun makers and resellers helped created the 'assault rifle' myth in advertising. It sells guns.

Equally as "valid" an argument as racing-inspired sports car advertising / marketing being to blame for speeding and traffic fatalities (which number higher than gun fatalities). Or NASCAR broadcasts being to blame.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Equally as "valid" an argument as racing-inspired sports car advertising / marketing being to blame for speeding and traffic fatalities (which number higher than gun fatalities). Or NASCAR broadcasts being to blame.

Apples and oranges. Half the country and elected officials are not spending billions trying to ban vehicles or auto racing. Weapons are a unique category. The anti gun lobby use gun marketing to their advantage. Their message to those who want to hear it is ... Gun people are a bunch a nut jobs who live in a violent fantasy land and think they are combatants. That's the image many advertisers project. Combat is not the same thing as self defense. You aren't a real man unless you have a true soldiers weapon. When was the last time anyone here was in a swamp fighting for their survival? Read the copy. What a bunch of Rambo horseshit.

Vs. years ago... centered hunting and sport shooting. Vehicles and especially NASCAR is highly regulated. License required, mandatory training, registrations and taxes. NASCAR rules and restrictions on the cars would fill a library.