Anybody have experience with a 45 ACP AR pistol?

[BillKilgore]

I have been looking at a Bear Creek Arsenal AR45 pistol with a 10.5” barrel. Perhaps build the lower from an 80% lower if I can find one in stock. I think it would be a lot of fun as a suppressor host.

Does anybody have experience with this caliber in an AR platform?

Thanks.

 

[bkbrno]

I had an Olympic .45 years ago. Pretty much proprietary, nothing like what is available today.

All I remember is it took really expensive mags and kicked like a mule. I thought about revisiting it with modern solutions but I already scratched that itch and would rather have other stuff.

.45 ACP is a round that does NOT benefit from a longer (16"+) barrel. Whatever the barrel length is on the Thompson is where max velocity is obtained. I think it is around 10" so on target there.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Making a 45 ACP AR is an unnatural act. So sayth the Gun Bible ... in Calibers 3.12.15.

The best pistol suppressor host for the 45 ACP is: Kris Vector.

A less expensive options is the MPA. You can pick these up hardly used and very cheap because nimrods buy them then realize the 80s are over and they aren't Tony Montana or some other coke dealers in South Florida. Heavy and crude, but they are very simple mechanically and always go bang.

 

[BillKilgore]

Thanks @bkbrno The Thompson had a 10.5” barrel and the M3 grease gun had an 8” barrel. BCA also makes a 45 with a 7.5” barrel.

At this point, I am just curious about the options.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Check out Moriarity Armaments. They have a few AR pistols in 45 ACP. Even if you choose to build it cant hurt to look at those that someone has already worked out all the kinks.

I have a TNW survival rifle that takes Glock mags. I originally bought it in Gods Caliber but later converted it to 10mm. I figured that if I needed a survival rifle, putting a large hole in whatever I point it at is desireable but doing that at far greater velocity is even better. I do run that gun with a can. A survival rifle should be quiet.

I'm not a huge AR pistol fan, so I admit that bias. Honestly, I think they suck. Good at nothing. Worst home defense weapon ever conceived. That's not a criticism of anyones preference. Just my opinion.

If you want to go big with the AR platform, why not 450 Bushmaster or 50 Beowulf? You mention short barrel/pistol so I presume you don't want a big bore carbine. So scratch that option.

If it is about having a better pistol in 45, why not choose a double stack 1911 (a.k.a. 2011) with a can? Or a full size polymer/striker in 45? You are going to need to use pistol mags anyway, so why pack the extra bulk and weight of an AR if your preference centers on the 45? I guess my question is what the AR platform brings to the table if your goal is a 45 ACP pistol.

I think most people agree that compared to the 9mm, 45 ACP is at it's best (ballistically) when you are up close and personal. Also inherently subsonic thus easy to suppress and it's quiet. Under what circumstances is an AR pistol in 45 practical? It isnt. Also costs more to build, costs more to feed it.

 

[bkbrno]

I'm sure recoil control has only improved in the 25+ years since I shot the Oly .45 Don't let that sway your decision. I was surprised by how much a pistol caliber thumped my shoulder. I can shoot a 1911 all day long and it doesn't bother me. Fed by a Glock magazine instead of a $50 welded together Uzi magazine would have been game changing. I wouldn't consider anything but a Glock fed lower.

This is what I used for velocity comparisons. BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: Calibers/Cartridges Some loads do well with a longer barrel, some do worse. 10" seems to be a sweet spot. I believe these guys used a Thompson Center, cutting the barrel an inch at a time, to do their testing. Velocities are a little better than pistols.

 

[Bobster]

The best pistol suppressor host for the 45 ACP is: Kris Vector.

What op sys does the Vector have?

 

[bkbrno]

Copy+paste from the Kriss site.

Patented Technology​

The KRISS Vector’s Super V Recoil Mitigation System is a delayed blowback operating system with a small bolt carrier group connected to a low mass slider guided by channels in the frame that run perpendicular to the barrel. As a result, the KRISS Super V System redirects blowback energy downward, becoming a counterweight to the barrel’s natural tendency to rise when fired.

The KRISS Vector also features the lowest bore axis of any firearm in the world. The barrel is situated below the fire control group, in line with the second knuckle of the dominant hand, giving the operator mechanical advantage over recoil forces. This aids the operator in controlling the KRISS Vector for fast and accurate follow up shots

 

[bkbrno]

I had a Berreta CX-4 at the same time. The ergonomics were much better but it kicked like a mule also.

I'm not recoil sensitive. I was shooting a lot of .308 at the time and my shoulder never hurt like it did when I shot the .45 rifles. It was a quick hard punch to the shoulder.

 

[BillKilgore]

If you want to go big with the AR platform, why not 450 Bushmaster or 50 Beowulf? You mention short barrel/pistol so I presume you don't want a big bore carbine. So scratch that option.

If it is about having a better pistol in 45, why not choose a double stack 1911 (a.k.a. 2011) with a can? Or a full size polymer/striker in 45? You are going to need to use pistol mags anyway, so why pack the extra bulk and weight of an AR if your preference centers on the 45? I guess my question is what the AR platform brings to the table if your goal is a 45 ACP pistol.

I think most people agree that compared to the 9mm, 45 ACP is at it's best (ballistically) when you are up close and personal. Also inherently subsonic thus easy to suppress and it's quiet. Under what circumstances is an AR pistol in 45 practical? It isnt. Also costs more to build, costs more to feed it.

Thanks for the feedback, Lewi. As I said, a 45 AR is just a curiosity at this point. I wonder how the 45 AR would compare to a Thompson in semi-auto? If I build one, I will probably put a stock or brace on it.

Speaking of going big...
I am really interested in Bear Creek's 30-06 AR. I already reload a lot of 45 and 30-06, so ammo is not a problem.

 

[NavyVette]

I am quite taken by the BCA AR 30-06 too, as well as the new bolt action uppers.

Like I need more platforms

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Copy+paste from the Kriss site.

Patented Technology​

The KRISS Vector’s Super V Recoil Mitigation System is a delayed blowback operating system with a small bolt carrier group connected to a low mass slider guided by channels in the frame that run perpendicular to the barrel. As a result, the KRISS Super V System redirects blowback energy downward, becoming a counterweight to the barrel’s natural tendency to rise when fired.

The KRISS Vector also features the lowest bore axis of any firearm in the world. The barrel is situated below the fire control group, in line with the second knuckle of the dominant hand, giving the operator mechanical advantage over recoil forces. This aids the operator in controlling the KRISS Vector for fast and accurate follow up shots

I have shot the Kriss in 45 ACP and it's sweet. More of a subgun than what I would consider a pistol though. The Kriss looks different but operating system is not radical. As mentioned above... they cleverly implemented the roller delay and some other design elements, similar in some regard to the MP5. Stribog also. All those named are relatively soft in terms of recoil. It allows for a lighter bolt, and is strictly blowback so no gas system to contend with. Especially if you want to use a can.

Roller delayed subguns shine when using pistol caliber ammo. Also when running suppressed. Rifle rounds.. not so much.

The HK in full auto and suppressed was a frequent companion in my previous life. In an urban environment, CQB.... I dont think there's a better weapon. 9mm is the norm but 45's like the Kriss and a few others are nothing to sneeze at. 10mm seems to be getting some traction in this category. I've been debating getting the 10mm Stribog to play around with.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

I had a Berreta CX-4 at the same time. The ergonomics were much better but it kicked like a mule also.

That's a fun gun to shoot! I also had one for a while. 9mm. It ended up getting relegated to being the gun I lended to friends who were not proficient with firearms. Small, light, simple controls. Soft shooting. It was less intimidating for them.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Thanks for the feedback, Lewi. As I said, a 45 AR is just a curiosity at this point. I wonder how the 45 AR would compare to a Thompson in semi-auto? If I build one, I will probably put a stock or brace on it.

Speaking of going big...
I am really interested in Bear Creek's 30-06 AR. I already reload a lot of 45 and 30-06, so ammo is not a problem.

I'm usually not prone to nostalgia, but there's something about the "Chicago typewriter" that calls to me. It only went out of fashion with the military because it was expensive and complicated to build. If you wanted to fill the air with lead, there was nothing better at the time. That's why it received the Al Capone seal of approval Unfortunately, the prohibition-era Mob's affection for the Tommy gun is the main reason we have the NFA.

30-06 would be interesting. More power than a 308. Long action though. I have not seen an AR in this config. Are you a deer or hog hunter?

 

[Stephen G]

Making a 45 ACP AR is an unnatural act. So sayth the Gun Bible ... in Calibers 3.12.15.

The best pistol suppressor host for the 45 ACP is: Kris Vector.

View attachment 26910

A less expensive options is the MPA. You can pick these up hardly used and very cheap because nimrods buy them then realize the 80s are over and they aren't Tony Montana or some other coke dealers in South Florida. Heavy and crude, but they are very simple mechanically and always go bang.

View attachment 26911

Beware of that buffer in the MPA- when it starts to go/breakdown. It " WILL" end up in firing pin.
1100 rds a min = 1 mag in 1.2 sec. Took 2 mags to know what happened. Another 5 to be sure it happened.

 

[Bobster]

Took 2 mags to know what happened. Another 5 to be sure it happened.

And another 10 mags to be double-sure...

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Beware of that buffer in the MPA- when it starts to go/breakdown. It " WILL" end up in firing pin.
1100 rds a min = 1 mag in 1.2 sec. Took 2 mags to know what happened. Another 5 to be sure it happened.

I have heard that. It's a safe queen now. I shot the hell out of it when I first bought it. Bought a half dozen of the clear buffers from MPA. No idea where those are now. It's been years. I'll definitely take a look at the one in the gun before I shoot it again.

Once you shoot an MP5, everything else in that genre sucks. Still, the old Mac 10, Intertec, MPA and Cobray have a certain 80's charm. Those huge fake suppressors and barrel extensions with the holes in them make me laugh. Useless but they do look menacing! Dont go to the Babylon Club without one!
View: https://youtu.be/HcL_lyyvBzA

 

[Stephen G]

Yeaaaa, Calico with its delayed blowback & w/100 rd drum is kinda fkn AWEEESOME.
Stick a suppressor on the end and its a PARTY.
HK is cool too.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Yeaaaa, Calico with its delayed blowback & w/100 rd drum is kinda fkn AWEEESOME.
Stick a suppressor on the end and its a PARTY.
HK is cool too.

Now there's a subgun I haven't heard anybody mention for a long time! That crazy helical mag on the top... gets the prize for being different. I figured they weren't making them anymore - but they are!

If it were cerakoted some wacky colors I think it might win a ray gun contest. Sorry @Racer88.

 

[Stephen G]

Yes it does. Then lets not forget the party favorite of Calicos version of 52x2 card pickup when you hit that lil silver tab on a loaded/wound magazine.