Breaking! Comment Now To Stop the ATF’s Illegal Registry!

[NavyVette]

They have a click and paste comment to the ATF ready to go:

Comment Now To Stop the ATF’s Illegal Registry! | GOA

As part of ATF’s recent package of 34 new rules, they’ve proposed a change to their “out-of-business” records retention. This record retention amounts to an unconstitutional, illegal registry of guns and gun owners. The registry, compiled by ATF using Form 4473 — which is the dealer sales form...

www.gunowners.org

 

[Racer88]

Dear Ay-Tee-Eff....

"I think your rules suck."

Signed,
My real name and address.

What could possibly go wrong?? And I'm QUITE confident the entirety of the "comments" received are given exactly ZERO consideration or weight. ZERO-point-fucking-ZERO.

I'm also confident they KEEP the list of "malcontents" who wrote them a letter.

 

[NavyVette]

Dear Ay-Tee-Eff....

"I think your rules suck."

Signed,
My real name and address.

What could possibly go wrong?? And I'm QUITE confident the entirety of the "comments" received are given exactly ZERO consideration or weight. ZERO-point-fucking-ZERO.

I'm also confident they KEEP the list of "malcontents" who wrote them a letter.

OH, I should not have said my first name was LT and my last name was Racer88 then?
My address was #1 patriotgunbuilders in the state COM

 

[Racer88]

OH, I should not have said my first name was LT and my last name was Racer88 then?
My address was #1 patriotgunbuilders in the state COM

I'm sure they're already watching me / this forum!

 

[NavyVette]

I asked my favorite nurse in the hospital "May I call you by your first name" and she said that "When the Army commissioned me they said 'Your fist name is Lieutenant now'".

But she did let me call her Ellen.

That's how I figured out your fist name.

 

[no4mk1t]

This is nothing new. Ever since the Firearms Owners Protection Act prohibited ATF from compiling a computer searchable list of firearms owners from "dealer records", they have claimed a loophole that "former" dealer records are fair game and have been busy digitizing all the 4473 records of dealers that have gone out of business for any and all reasons.

Under the Obama and Biden administrations, I would not be surprised if they were secretly digitizing all 4473 records into a searchable database.

In recent high profile shootings, the speed with which they are able to establish that the shooter bought the weapon from a specific dealer, and that the purchase was legal has to suggest they have a nationwide searchable database for firearms.
An old school manual search from manufacturer to distributor to dealer to end purchaser would take much longer.

 

[CECannonJr]

They have a click and paste comment to the ATF ready to go:

Comment Now To Stop the ATF’s Illegal Registry! | GOA

As part of ATF’s recent package of 34 new rules, they’ve proposed a change to their “out-of-business” records retention. This record retention amounts to an unconstitutional, illegal registry of guns and gun owners. The registry, compiled by ATF using Form 4473 — which is the dealer sales form...

www.gunowners.org

Done!

 

[Racer88]

In recent high profile shootings, the speed with which they are able to establish that the shooter bought the weapon from a specific dealer, and that the purchase was legal has to suggest they have a nationwide searchable database for firearms.
An old school manual search from manufacturer to distributor to dealer to end purchaser would take much longer.

Ummmm.... Why would they go nationwide or start at the manufacturer? The obvious place to start is LOCAL. Just start at the gun dealer closest to the perp's home. Kind of a no-brainer, eh?

"Hey... did you sell this guy a gun?"

"Yep. All legal. Next question."

I'd bet 99% of the time, the investigation would begin and end with a single visit to a single dealer... the one closest to where the perp lived. Done and done. Probably takes them 10 minutes to solve that "mystery."

And of course, if the perp bought the gun legally, all of that is utterly irrelevant. Even if he bought it illegally.... It still doesn't matter. What are we going to do? Pass MORE laws to make crime illegaler? More laws to be ignored by CRIMINALS??

 

[no4mk1t]

Ummmm.... Why would they go nationwide or start at the manufacturer? The obvious place to start is LOCAL. Just start at the gun dealer closest to the perp's home. Kind of a no-brainer, eh?

"Hey... did you sell this guy a gun?"

"Yep. All legal. Next question."

I'd bet 99% of the time, the investigation would begin and end with a single visit to a single dealer... the one closest to where the perp lived. Done and done. Probably takes them 10 minutes to solve that "mystery."

And of course, if the perp bought the gun legally, all of that is utterly irrelevant. Even if he bought it illegally.... It still doesn't matter. What are we going to do? Pass MORE laws to make crime illegaler? More laws to be ignored by CRIMINALS??

Nope.
Took them 2 days to trace the weapons used by the WHCD shooter. It seems they are still doing it old school.

According to CBS News:
Authorities traced the firearms and determined where they were bought within about two days — by Sunday, April 27, prosecutors said the guns had been purchased in 2023 and 2025 from California dealers. CBS News

They traced the guns using firearm transaction records from the dealers (ATF/National Tracing Center trace of the serial numbers), matching the recovered weapons’ serial numbers to purchase records and dealer paperwork. CBS News

Law enforcement traces a recovered firearm by sending its serial number to the ATF’s National Tracing Center, which queries dealer records and manufacturing/transfer chains (manufacturer → wholesaler → dealer → purchaser) and contacts the selling dealers to obtain their (paper or electronic) acquisition/sales records. Those records are not publicly searchable; access is limited to authorized law enforcement and, in some cases, courts via subpoenas.

 

[Racer88]

Nope.
Took them 2 days to trace the weapons used by the WHCD shooter. It seems they are still doing it old school.

According to CBS News:
Authorities traced the firearms and determined where they were bought within about two days — by Sunday, April 27, prosecutors said the guns had been purchased in 2023 and 2025 from California dealers. CBS News

They traced the guns using firearm transaction records from the dealers (ATF/National Tracing Center trace of the serial numbers), matching the recovered weapons’ serial numbers to purchase records and dealer paperwork. CBS News

Law enforcement traces a recovered firearm by sending its serial number to the ATF’s National Tracing Center, which queries dealer records and manufacturing/transfer chains (manufacturer → wholesaler → dealer → purchaser) and contacts the selling dealers to obtain their (paper or electronic) acquisition/sales records. Those records are not publicly searchable; access is limited to authorized law enforcement and, in some cases, courts via subpoenas.

Well, there ya go... "at the speed of government."

I'll bet the dealer was the one closest to his house. Shazam!

 

[no4mk1t]

While the news source doesn't name the stores, is does say "dealers" in Torrance and Lawndale, which indicates two different locations. One was purchased in 2023 and the other in 2025.

The FFL density in that part of L.A. is 6 FFL's per square mile. Torrance and Lawndale are adjacent to each other and equal 23 square miles combined. So, approximately 138 FFL's.
So, in Torrance, where he lived, you could search closest to farthest. But Lawndale is several miles away.

And in thinking of my own purchase history, I can recall buying a firearm from a dealer in my own zip code maybe twice, and that was in the 80's.
Do you make all, or even most of your purchases at the dealer closest to your house?

 

[Racer88]

The FFL density in that part of L.A. is 6 FFL's per square mile. Torrance and Lawndale are adjacent to each other and equal 23 square miles combined. So, approximately 138 dealers.

That's hard to believe. I live in the GUNSHINE state, and we don't have nearly that many dealers. LOL! You're telling me that in (that part of) CALIFORNIA, there are SIX dealers PER SQUARE MILE???

Who knew? California is the place to be for guns! LOL!

I have to drive almost 30 minutes to the nearest gun store.

 

[FrankenGlock]

That's hard to believe. I live in the GUNSHINE state, and we don't have nearly that many dealers. LOL! You're telling me that in (that part of) CALIFORNIA, there are SIX dealers PER SQUARE MILE???

Who knew? California is the place to be for guns! LOL!

I have to drive almost 30 minutes to the nearest gun store.

Was my largest market by far until the recent changes to their laws. Not worth the liability or hassle to sell there anymore.

 

[serger]

Being on the "list" used to bother me. Now it doesn't. I know when/if
they decide to round me up they will do it @ 02:30 +/-. That's just the
way it is.

I posted my comment and feel good about it. I'm too old to spend the
rest of my life on my knees.

 

[no4mk1t]

That's hard to believe. I live in the GUNSHINE state, and we don't have nearly that many dealers. LOL! You're telling me that in (that part of) CALIFORNIA, there are SIX dealers PER SQUARE MILE???

Who knew? California is the place to be for guns! LOL!

I have to drive almost 30 minutes to the nearest gun store.

Not 6 dealers per square mile, 6 FFL's.

There are 10 flavors of FFL, only 2 of them are for dealing, the rest are for manufacturers, importers, and collectors. But all of them are included in that 12K FFL's in the state of CA internet statistic. The 6 per square mile estimate is based off that.

All of these businesses that do Cerkote, hydro dipping, laser engraving, and gunsmithing have to have a 01 FFL to ship and receive the guns they work on. They are technically dealers even if they don't sell guns as part of their business. In a criminal investigation, they would have to be included as well.

Upon digging a little deeper, it appears that most of the FFL's in CA are not dealers or pawn brokers.
In fact, FL has about 5 times the number of dealers (Type 01/02) as CA. Wow!
So, the 6 per square mile stat is irrelevant.

It would seem that Beverly Hillbillies aside, Californie ain't the place you wanna be, if you be a gun dealer.

 

[Bobster]

I'll bet the dealer was the one closest to his house. Shazam!

That logic is flawed. In MY neck of the woods, there are probably 100 FFLs within a 20mi radius. And who is to say you are going to buy (or transfer) a gun with the FFL closest to you? If one is charging $40 for a transfer but another 2mi away is only charging $20 who are you going to go to?

FFL Finder Keep in mind these are only dealers who have "signed up" with GB...

PS: I was pretty fucking close!

 

[Racer88]

That logic is flawed. In MY neck of the woods, there are probably 100 FFLs within a 20mi radius. And who is to say you are going to buy (or transfer) a gun with the FFL closest to you? If one is charging $40 for a transfer but another 2mi away is only charging $20 who are you going to go to?

FFL Finder Keep in mind these are only dealers who have "signed up" with GB...

PS: I was pretty fucking close!

View attachment 39645

The average Schmoe buys a gun at a gun STORE. They don't even know what a (kitchen table) FFL is.