Is Polymer80 DIW (Dead in the Water)

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Anyone have any new info on this?
 
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Racer88 said:
I just found this on the P80 reddit group. I have no idea if it's real, since the source is not linked or referenced. It's a screenshot.

But it seems the writing is on the wall for Polymer80. Fucking sad. I hope they come back after the win in Garland vs Vanderstok. Maybe they can rename the company, "Phoenix80!"


View: https://www.reddit.com/r/polymer80/comments/1emo5si/p80_temporarily_out_of_business/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
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Yes, exactly. I'm surprised they have not declared bankruptcy to avoid paying the penalties but they may be waiting until the court cases make it to SCOTUS with the hopes they say that P80 can't be sued. They should also reverse all the other gun manufacturing lawsuits too. I don't see where the automakers are sued when some jut job drives a car intentionally through a crowd of people with nefarious intent. Just can't understand how a manufacturer can be sued for a product that depends on the user and their intent or bad will. Next up is spoon and fork manufacturers being sued for people dying from metabolic syndrome.
 
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Well, it sure does suck the big one about Polymer80.

I am quite optimistic (with good reasons) about a favorable SCOTUS decision this fall (Garland vs Vanderstok).

Hopefully, the remaining <100% frame manufacturers will pick up the slack. Maybe Polymer80 will rise from the ashes in another form or name.

We still have serialized frames, too.

I expect we'll also see advancements in computerized milling and printing.

I do not anticipate this hobby to wane. Rather, I expect it will bounce back bigger and better.
 
Racer88 said:
Polymer80's property is for sale.


Maybe we can pool our money and come up with $3.25MM?

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www.commercialsearch.com www.commercialsearch.com
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Except pool the $ and buy property in a state where 80% P80s are legal.

Racer88 said:
bounce back bigger and better.
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Sounds close to "Build Back Better". Be careful ;)
 
Racer88 said:
Polymer80's property is for sale.


Maybe we can pool our money and come up with $3.25MM?

Dayton, NV Commercial Real Estate for Lease

Explore Dayton, NV commercial real estate for lease availabilities, including all property types across all local submarkets.
www.commercialsearch.com www.commercialsearch.com
Click to expand...
You don't want to located in Nevada as it is not gun friendly. Tennessee or Missouri are the gun friendly states to locate and you can still live there relatively cheaply if you stay out of the big cities.
 
brian said:
That's what I was getting at - I don't think P80 could sell 80%'s in Nevada.
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Ummm... the problem isn't that they can't sell 80%s in Nevada. They got shut down from selling them ANYwhere in the country. This is NOT a problem of which state in which they were located. You know that, right?
 
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Just thoughts...

Let Polymer 80 fade into obscurity. That name is forever associated with the medias 👻gun buzz word.

Take a page from Air America.
Set up new company HQ with new name in another state. Come up with an innocuous sounding name that suggests the company makes something benign like "Lonestar Injection Molding". Actually make some kind of boring widgets for cash flow and subterfuge. Have that company owned by a series of LLC's that eventually lead to an overseas company. Make it hard to track down who owns it.

Determine the most gun friendly location to have the manufacturing facility. Maybe even think about not having everything made in one location. Make it like the 19th Century gun guilds in Birmingham England where multiple shops made individual pieces, but no one local made the whole gun.
 
Racer88 said:
Ummm... the problem isn't that they can't sell 80%s in Nevada. They got shut down from selling them ANYwhere in the country. This is NOT a problem of which state in which they were located. You know that, right?
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I get that. BEFORE the ATF crap went down, they couldn't sell in NV. So if they're property in NV is for sale, why buy it? I realize your original comment about buying it was tongue in cheek, but as a serious observation my comment is suggesting they relocate to a gun friendly state.
 
brian said:
So if they're property in NV is for sale, why buy it? I realize your original comment about buying it was tongue in cheek, but as a serious observation my comment is suggesting they relocate to a gun friendly state.
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Yes, it was tongue-in-cheek. :-)

But yeah... moving to a gun-friendly state is the last thing on their priority list when they were fighting for their very survival. Being in Nevada was the least of their problems.

But, yes... when the time is right, move to a friendlier state. Like Magpul did. Like Smith & Wesson did. Like Beretta did. Like Colt did. Take that tax revenue and the jobs to a state that supports the Constitution and is business-friendly.
 
no4mk1t said:
Just thoughts...

Let Polymer 80 fade into obscurity. That name is forever associated with the medias 👻gun buzz word.

Take a page from Air America.
Set up new company HQ with new name in another state. Come up with an innocuous sounding name that suggests the company makes something benign like "Lonestar Injection Molding". Actually make some kind of boring widgets for cash flow and subterfuge. Have that company owned by a series of LLC's that eventually lead to an overseas company. Make it hard to track down who owns it.

Determine the most gun friendly location to have the manufacturing facility. Maybe even think about not having everything made in one location. Make it like the 19th Century gun guilds in Birmingham England where multiple shops made individual pieces, but no one local made the whole gun.
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If history is any guide, they are done forever. You can escape creditors under bankruptcy law, but the well funded anti-gun cabal will follow you everywhere. They dont want their money back like a creditor. Figuratively speaking, they want you dead.

The founder could come back and make a gun or gun parts that separates it from the pack. Frames with a serial number. There isnt a damn thing anyone can do to stop them if they serialize. Unless they infringe on patents, which they did.

I know it's unpopular to say this, but P80's leadership chose to repeat Picketts Charge. And it ended the same way.

Is it impossible to build parts for hobbyists and inspire gun enthusiasts to buy them? The 1911 aftermarket suggests yes. There are more 1911 and 1911 parts makers today than at any time in the 100+ year history of the gun. Wilson, Ed Brown, Nighthawk, Cabot, and others are literally printing money by making parts and offering custom and semi custom 1911s and more modern derivative works. This is years after the 1911 was declared to be on life support - in the 1990s. Kimber, Tisas, Girsan, Sig, S&W, Springfield, RIA, and more are cranking out more 1911s and related handguns than ever.

Is this a totally fair comparison? Yes and no. The 1911 market and aftermarket doesn't even try to serve the guy who wants to make his own gun as cheap as possible. If your MBA thesis was you were going to start a firearm company that dances around a well established legal precedent for serialization; one that government regulators and anti-gun lobby was sure to attack; based on your target market being those who want a cheap gun and no background check, you would get a failing grade.

If you tweak that plan to serve gun enthusiasts (not doofuses) who are looking for something they can customize and make their own and have it be in some ways superior to factory guns, then you have a business model that can fly.

Every maker of cheap guns has gone out of business. With a couple exceptions: HighPoint and SCCY. The government regulators, Bloomberg and his minions isn't trying to shut them down. Why?
 
They need to name the company something like "Freedom of Choice," "Liberal Press Bias," "Liberals for Gun Control," "Stop Gun Violence," "Safe Manufacturing," and donate a percentage of sales to a cause all the Dems love. Need a name that the press sounds terrible for even talking about.
 
Bongo Lewi said:
try to serve the guy who wants to make his own gun as cheap as possible.
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Bongo Lewi said:
target market being those who want a cheap gun
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You must be in a different hobby. During my time in this realm, on various forums, my observation is that the VAST majority of P80 builders are NOT looking for "cheap." If they were looking for a cheap way to obtain a gun by building a P80, they surely soon discovered they were barking up the wrong tree.

If you are very resourceful and patient, you can eventually acquire cheaper parts (on sale) to build a P80 for just SLIGHTLY less than a factory Glock. But most of the time, it will cost slightly more to a LOT more.

Anyone who says or tries to build a P80 because it's cheaper is not paying attention. If you want a "cheap Glock," buy a used factory Glock in the private market. You'll save money... and likely save frustration, if you're the typically mechanically inept millennial or Gen-Xer.

My least expensive P80 came in at $740 total. Of course, this doesn't include the tools I had to buy.
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Bongo Lewi said:
Every maker of cheap guns has gone out of business. With a couple exceptions: HighPoint and SCCY. The government regulators, Bloomberg and his minions isn't trying to shut them down. Why?
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Did you forget about the political effort (which has not gone away entirely) to ban "Saturday Night Specials" - a euphemism for cheap guns???
 
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Racer88 said:
You must be in a different hobby. During my time in this realm, on various forums, my observation is that the VAST majority of P80 builders are NOT looking for "cheap." If they were looking for a cheap way to obtain a gun by building a P80, they surely soon discovered they were barking up the wrong tree.

If you are very resourceful and patient, you can eventually acquire cheaper parts (on sale) to build a P80 for just SLIGHTLY less than a factory Glock. But most of the time, it will cost slightly more to a LOT more.

Anyone who says or tries to build a P80 because it's cheaper is not paying attention. If you want a "cheap Glock," buy a used factory Glock in the private market. You'll save money... and likely save frustration, if you're the typically mechanically inept millennial or Gen-Xer.

My least expensive P80 came in at $740 total. Of course, this doesn't include the tools I had to buy.
View attachment 22050


Did you forget about the political effort (which has not gone away entirely) to ban "Saturday Night Specials" - a euphemism for cheap guns???
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I think spending a lot of money on a P80 is a phenomenon that's unique to a subset of the market. The more skilled hobbyists or enthusiasts that exist here at PGB are in my observation not the majority. I wouldn't quote numbers, but the proverbial 80/20 rule comes to mind. 20% enthusiasts, 80% doofuses. Reddit seems to validate my theory. PGB is unique. Especially with handguns.

I think the 80% AR world differs slightly from handguns. Fewer doofuses.
 
Bongo Lewi said:
I think spending a lot of money on a P80 is a phenomenon that's unique to a subset of the market.
Click to expand...

Bongo Lewi said:
The more skilled hobbyists or enthusiasts that exist here at PGB are in my observation not the majority.
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I have made no such claim. My observations come from various sources, including "low rent" Reddit. I've "been around." :)

But I can do simple math. When you add up the cost of even the cheapest components of a P80 build, you will be hard-pressed to build one cheaper than a factory Glock.

As I said.... a truly diligent and resourceful person can build one for slightly less than a factory new Glock. It CAN be done, but not easily or quickly (have to wait for sales). Add in the cost of even the minimal number of tools, of course, and you may be back over the cost of a factory Glock.

If someone is trying to be thrifty in acquiring his first decent quality gun, he'd be better off buying a used Glock.

And the person who is trying to acquire his first gun cheaply by building a P80 is likely to be VERY disappointed and disillusioned when the lack of mechanical skills, dearth of knowledge (of how the gun actually works - since it's his first ever), and poor dexterity results in a "cheap" gun that doesn't fucking work. And I've seen that PLENTY on groups like Reddit and GlockTalk.
 
I do my own because what I build would cost 2x or more what it costs me to do myself. It is comical what some of the Glock clone manufacturers charge for something you can do yourself for a huge savings. If I wanted a Glock, I would do what Racer suggests and buy a complete LEO trade in for cheap. There is approximately one basic Glock style clone in my collection, and I built it for around $200. It's a challenge that I accept to buy lower grade parts and make them function, work, and look like a higher end part. I also buy high end parts but wait until there is a clearance deal or huge sale.

The secret is to always be on the lookout for those clearance deals or huge sales. Black Friday or Cyber Monday is a great time to buy slides, frames, and parts as the sales tend to be huge. Stock up then for the year. Buy OEM parts that matter and or are inexpensive compared to aftermarket products. Why buy the ZEV slide internals when the Glock internals work great and can be purchased cheaply? Do you really need a $300 barrel or will one that cost $50 to $100 shoot and look fine? Are you signed up for email lists from the major manufacturers and using their coupons? It all adds up. I'm sure many of you also buy sometimes years ahead if you found a great deal for a later build.

The only issues I had with slide parts were from Lone Wolf. I'm a huge fan of their offerings so don't take it as bashing because it is not. Their strikers are chrome plated and I've had that chip off and clog the striker channel causing a light strike. The other issue is their trigger housings don't always work in the large frame Glock/clones.
 
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