looks like some legit sites selling P80 frames again

[Alex]

TL/DR : The court ruled the P80 Buy Build Shoot kits are in fact guns as they were marketed as a gun, there was a whole gun in the box along with the tools, jig and instructions to finish the frame. As has been the habit of the court the past few years they did not give any guidance beyond that. What does that mean in 2025? I don't know and neither of the guys on the Reload knew either. There are no more of those kits to be had so...‍

The current administration has the 2A quite low in its priorities so who knows if they will act one way or the other on advancing or clawing back gun control.

Colorado governor Jared Polis has a pretty comprehensive gun ban/registration bill sitting on his desk right now that seems very unconstitutional and is one signature away from becoming law. Look up CO SB-003. What good are federally protected rights that can be deleted on a state-by-state basis? You guys who think you are in "safe" states are one election away from being in the same boat as Colorado or Washington or Minnesota. Those states gave up their gun rights in the current generation, gun control is not ingrained there like it is in say New York. Wisconsin's new progressive supreme court majority looks primed to tip that state towards Utopia like their neighbors.

 

[k3nny173]

The ruling did not say that 80% lowers had to be serialized and transferred via an FFL, I am pretty sure the interpretation is you cannot buy the 80% frame, a jig, the tools, the instructions, the barrel the slide, etc, etc ALL in the same shipment.

If I am looking at the packing list correctly, it looks like the jig and the frame are being sent in two separate shipments

YES, I love P80s, and more importantly I never bought a PF45, I was focused on the PF940v2 and the 940c, so paying an extra $100 to get a PF45 that will probably never be for sale again in the future was worth it to me. I can move my 10mm over to this frame, the lone wolf frame was ok, but I think the PF45 frame is better.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

The ruling upheld the claim that frames are firearms and subject to the NFA. SCOTUS ruled in favor of the Atee Eph.

I suspect some vendors are splitting hairs by splitting orders for jigs. Maybe in defiance. Or to get rid of inventory and keep the lights on.

It remains to be seen what happens. I vaguely recall FRT triggers being outlawed and the list of people who bought them was seized. Then there’s bump stocks. How many people destroyed or turned them in? Almost nobody. The thing is.. . If for some reason it is discovered you have or illegally obtained something that’s been banned, you may be prosecuted.

My impression is that it is not illegal to possess a 80% frame or one that has been completed. But it is now illegal to buy a new 80% frame or lower without a serial number and NICS background check. Also.. selling an unserialized handgun or AR may be difficult or impossible depending on where you live.

Are 80% frames and lowers already in market exempt and the rule applies to new parts? I’m not sure. What I am certain of is having no desire to be a martyr.

 

[Racer88]

I am pretty sure the interpretation is you cannot buy the 80% frame, a jig, the tools, the instructions, the barrel the slide, etc, etc ALL in the same shipment.

I do not believe that is correct. To my knowledge that was a question quite some time ago and not the subject of Vanderstok vs Garland. Vanderstok was about the frames themselves and the reason Polymer80 went out of business. They couldn't sell their frames (by themselves) AT ALL.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

This is interesting:

https://freedomunlimitedinc.com/pistol-blanks/\

This (below) is bullshit meant to give the appearance of disclaimer. If I were a betting man I'd suggest pretending to be an FFL is going to get them into legal hot water. These are questions from a 4473. None of these criteria are worth the figurative paper they are written on because none of it can be verified. If a customer is a 'yes' to any of these and buys anyway, the seller is not protected. This is a FAFO situation for this company. Don't be shocked if they get shut down. I don't want my name in their customer database.

The people running this company are tempting fate or are just stupid.

By using this website to purchase and/or use this product, you affirm that

• You are a permanent resident or US citizen, nor have you renounced your citizenship.
• You have never been convicted of a felony.
• You have verified that you may possess, purchase, and use this product under all applicable city, county, state and/or federal laws
• You have never been convicted of a crime punishable by more than one year in prison.
• You have never been convicted of a domestic violence crime misdemeanor.
• You have never been committed to a mental institution or adjudicated as mentally defective.
• You are not currently under a court order restraining you from stalking, threatening, or harassing a child or an intimate partner.
• You authorize Freedom Unlimited to send emails, text messages or other forms of electronic communications to the contact information you provide.

 

[Alex]

The thing is.. . If for some reason it is discovered you have or illegally obtained something that’s been banned, you may be prosecuted.

This is the goal of the GOSAFE Act, which is what Colorado's SB-003 is based on. Ban future sales of all semi auto guns, mandate registration of units currently in civilian hands, make it illegal to transfer any of those units to another owner.

Progressives play the long game. It is hard to do an outright ban and buyback on ownership of useful self defense weapons. But while they are chipping away at that right, one state at a time, they can also choke off any new ownership, one state at a time.

Virginia has a progressive legislature that keeps sending gun control bills to Glenn Younkin's desk where they get vetoed. If the people of that state elect a veto proof majority of legislators or get a prog in the governor's mansion then another state will be welcomed into the gun free Utopia.

I know that Reload video is long and neither of the guys are particularly exciting to listen to but it is worth taking the time to understand what the result of Vanderstock really was. It was not argued on 2A grounds. It was a challenge to the GCA's definition of "frame or reciever". The court admitted to not being gun experts but they ruled that a Buy Build Shoot kit, or something similar, is a gun and subjected to the GCA's serialization and background check requirements. They recognized that the kit is marketed as a gun, has everything in the box to make it into a gun, therefore it is a gun. They did not even attempt to provide a clear line to guide the industry as to what is - less than - a gun, as defined by the GCA. Until congress acts to craft new legislation on this, decisions will be left up to administrative agencies subject to the whims of whoever is in charge of them at the moment.

 

[k3nny173]

My purchasing info connected to 80% P80 purchases has been in the F U Inc, database for years
same with Brownell's, arm or alley and a few others, one more isn't going to matter

The feds are not coming after 80% purchases, several of you are misunderstanding what has happened. Its ok if you want to play it safe and avoid, that is exactly what they want you to do, be confused, be afraid, and avoid, their plan is working

No one at the federal level has banned 80% lowers, the state level is a completely different story. My state as of today allows them. I am moving to another state later this year that also allows them

There are so many companies selling the geisler 19x 80% frames that it can't possibly be against federal law. AR15 80% lowers too, literally all over the place being sold publicly on dozens of web sites

The fear boogeyman got ahold of some of you

 

[Racer88]

My purchasing info connected to 80% P80 purchases has been in the F U Inc, database for years
same with Brownell's, arm or alley and a few others, one more isn't going to matter

The feds are not coming after 80% purchases, several of you are misunderstanding what has happened. Its ok if you want to play it safe and avoid, that is exactly what they want you to do, be confused, be afraid, and avoid, their plan is working

No one at the federal level has banned 80% lowers, the state level is a completely different story. My state as of today allows them. I am moving to another state later this year that also allows them

There are so many companies selling the geisler 19x 80% frames that it can't possibly be against federal law. AR15 80% lowers too, literally all over the place being sold publicly on dozens of web sites

The fear boogeyman got ahold of some of you

Why did Polymer80 (the largest producer of unfinished frames) go out of business?

They were prohibited from selling their 80% frames, even without the full kits. They couldn't sell them AT ALL. Unless they were serialized and went through an FFL. That's why they came out with the "76% bridge" frames, which were a commercial FLOP. They couldn't hold out for a favorable ruling, which never came in the end anyway.

 

[k3nny173]

not 100% accurate
and you are skipping over part 2 - Polymer 80 was sued out of existence by Soros funding

Biden put a stop to 80% sales, a federal judge overturned it, then that federal judge was overturned again by another judge, this is what brought about the 76% frames

The federal judge battle was waiting for SCOTUS, the decision that recently happenend
that decision is against any kit (whatever name you want to give it) that is a complete pistol with instructions and tools in one kit, one purchase, that is what you are not allowed to do TODAY

 

[k3nny173]

https: // uspatriotarmory . com/

Not linking any of these intentionally

I missed the PF45 at us patriot army by about an hour
they still have other 80%s you can buy right now

 

[Racer88]

not 100% accurate
and you are skipping over part 2 - Polymer 80 was sued out of existence by Soros funding

Biden put a stop to 80% sales, a federal judge overturned it, then that federal judge was overturned again by another judge, this is what brought about the 76% frames

The federal judge battle was waiting for SCOTUS, the decision that recently happenend
that decision is against any kit (whatever name you want to give it) that is a complete pistol with instructions and tools in one kit, one purchase, that is what you are not allowed to do TODAY

Sued for what? By whom?

 

[k3nny173]

Giffords and Everytown for gun safety to name a couple of groups

then all the soros funded DAs jumped in

Google, you will find pages, here are just a couple

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...-general-wins-4m-in-fight-against-👻gun-maker/

https: // oag.dc.gov/release/ag-racine-sues-gun-manufacturer-polymer80

City of Baltimore Reaches Settlement in Polymer80

Secures Strictest Injunctive Terms of Any Jurisdiction In Comparable Suits Mayor Brandon M. Scott announced that Baltimore City has reached a settlement in its lawsuit against Polymer80, the leading manufacturer of 👻gun kits in the United States.

mayor.baltimorecity.gov

https://giffords.org/lawcenter/laws...lymer80-protecting-philadelphians-from-👻guns/

You can probably find Loran Kelley's post stating all this I doubt it was scrubbed from the internet

I am not sure why the links I am posting are breaking

 

[Michele]

This is interesting:

https://freedomunlimitedinc.com/pistol-blanks/\

This (below) is bullshit meant to give the appearance of disclaimer. If I were a betting man I'd suggest pretending to be an FFL is going to get them into legal hot water. These are questions from a 4473. None of these criteria are worth the figurative paper they are written on because none of it can be verified. If a customer is a 'yes' to any of these and buys anyway, the seller is not protected. This is a FAFO situation for this company. Don't be shocked if they get shut down. I don't want my name in their customer database.

The people running this company are tempting fate or are just stupid.

By using this website to purchase and/or use this product, you affirm that

• You are a permanent resident or US citizen, nor have you renounced your citizenship.
• You have never been convicted of a felony.
• You have verified that you may possess, purchase, and use this product under all applicable city, county, state and/or federal laws
• You have never been convicted of a crime punishable by more than one year in prison.
• You have never been convicted of a domestic violence crime misdemeanor.
• You have never been committed to a mental institution or adjudicated as mentally defective.
• You are not currently under a court order restraining you from stalking, threatening, or harassing a child or an intimate partner.
• You authorize Freedom Unlimited to send emails, text messages or other forms of electronic communications to the contact information you provide.

You have no idea who”these people” are (and all the other companies selling frames) or if they have information you don’t about selling. There’s quite a bit of fake news and speculation being posted.

Several companies have been selling frames through all the misinformation and scary don’t buy frames rampant on the internet. USPA had frames for quite a while, same misinformation went out, people bought products and nothing happened to anyone. Obviously the government, whom some claim to be eyeing gun forums, have seen who is selling so called illegal frames etc… Guess what ? Not one of them have been raided.

How bout let’s stay with the facts or not spout nonsense

 

[Michele]

My purchasing info connected to 80% P80 purchases has been in the F U Inc, database for years
same with Brownell's, arm or alley and a few others, one more isn't going to matter

The feds are not coming after 80% purchases, several of you are misunderstanding what has happened. Its ok if you want to play it safe and avoid, that is exactly what they want you to do, be confused, be afraid, and avoid, their plan is working

No one at the federal level has banned 80% lowers, the state level is a completely different story. My state as of today allows them. I am moving to another state later this year that also allows them

There are so many companies selling the geisler 19x 80% frames that it can't possibly be against federal law. AR15 80% lowers too, literally all over the place being sold publicly on dozens of web sites

The fear boogeyman got ahold of some of you

EXACTLY CORRECT

 

[Michele]

Sued for what? By whom?

Are you kidding me? You, and many of us, bought a kit from them to help pay for their legal team to fight the suit(s).

Don’t think u built it yet… I’m not home or I’d post my kit. The upper is etched with some cool patriotic saying., don’t remember what it was. Pretty sure it’s the only upper you have that’s etched aside from the one I made you.

 

[One Ping Only]

No 'fear of the boogyman' here. It's the state laws that are the issue...and it seems states have been doing MANY unconstitutional things that seem to stick (at least for now). I AM concerned with out of control FEDERAL agencies that are now looking to enforce STATE LAWS and prosecute in regards to these and similar matters...as in the latest revelation of FBI and ATF doing so regarding California gun ownership. It's reprehensible. That being said, until the dust settles I wouldn't bother and, in the state I reside in CURRENTLY, they have banned these what they call "guns'. I had mine serialized before the deadline for compliance, within the minimum requirements of state law and simply had serial numbers etched into them. And right now they are looking to make examples out of people who they have duly criminalized, so others will get the message. I'm not interested in being one of them, and were I half my age might give a flying flip otherwise.

(edit) - and I didn't get these thoughts from the internet hub-bub, they are simply my own.

The problem is, these bastids have the badge, and we peons have our teeth in our mouths.

 

[One Ping Only]

Are you kidding me? You, and many of us, bought a kit from them to help pay for their legal team to fight the suit(s).

Don’t think u built it yet… I’m not home or I’d post my kit. The upper is etched with some cool patriotic saying., don’t remember what it was. Pretty sure it’s the only upper you have that’s etched aside from the one I made you.

I never was able to procure one of those "kits" before they became unavailable...and always thought those were so cool. Just add talent, time, and patience. That said, it's always nice to pick and choose what parts you want in your build.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

At the federal level, 80% pistol frames—partially completed firearm frame are not inherently illegal. However, their status has been affected by the ATF's "Frame or Receiver" Final Rule (2021R-05F), which went into effect on August 24, 2022. This rule expanded the definition of a "firearm" under the Gun Control Act of 1968 to include parts kits and incomplete frames or receivers that can be readily converted into functional firearms. Under this regulation, manufacturers of such items must serialize them, obtain licenses, and conduct background checks on buyers, treating them like completed firearms. On March 26, 2025, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld this rule in a 7-2 decision, confirming the ATF's authority to regulate these items as firearms, provided they meet the "readily convertible" threshold. This means that, federally, 80% pistol frames sold as part of kits or deemed easily completable are subject to the same restrictions as fully assembled guns, but standalone 80% frames that require significant machining might still fall outside this definition—though the line is blurry and case-specific.

Clear as mud. Plastic pistol frames do not require ‘significant machining’. AR lowers arguably do.

Just because the Atee Eph hasn’t asserted their authority doesn’t mean they won’t. SCOTUS left that door open.

I’m sticking with serialized. I will gradually replace every non-serialized frame with one that is and mulch the non serialized frames.

 

[Racer88]

Are you kidding me? You, and many of us, bought a kit from them to help pay for their legal team to fight the suit(s).

Don’t think u built it yet… I’m not home or I’d post my kit. The upper is etched with some cool patriotic saying., don’t remember what it was. Pretty sure it’s the only upper you have that’s etched aside from the one I made you.

I guess I'm confused. I thought it was the feds after P80, and that's why P80 came up with the "bridge" frame to (try to) comply with the new "rules."

I guess I'm not recalling that it was private groups after P80.

 

[Bobster]

The way I interpret it, IF you are an FFL, you have to abide by the new rules. But many FFLs do not have the "manufacturing" license (07), so they could run afoul of the law without even knowing it, although they SHOULD know it.