M193 or m855

[Curmudgeon]

Have you actually measured the twist rate?

Yeah, my dowel with a cleaning cloth spun just under 1 & 3/4 turns pushing it through my barrel.

 

[no4mk1t]

So I’m assuming m855 would work good in a 1 in 7 and maybe even 1 in 8 twist.

Yes.
It should be stable in a 9 twist or faster.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

 

[Bongo Lewi]

It's easy to get in the weeds on ballistics.

All good info here but in the end, if you aren't preparing for the upcoming season of Top Gun or trying to qualify at sniper school, none of this matters. Buy the least expensive brass 5.56/223 ammo and be happy. As No4 mentioned, if you are competing, buy match ammo. If long range precision is your hearts desire, I'd ask ... why are you shooting an AR?

For defensive scenarios, in most cases the perp is going to be close enough where you can smell his breath. There is no such thing as a defensive shot at 100, 200, or 500 yards.

Stating the obvious ... faster twist, better long range stability. Provided you pick the right ammo. If you listen carefully you can hear the weeds growing

Infantry weapons are designed for a specific purpose and the least common denominator: 19-20 year olds with a modest amount of training putting holes in the enemy. AR Carbine... effective range about 400 meters. Rifle, 6-700. You can spend a bunch of money to accurize and/or choose another caliber and do better, go longer. The question is why do this with a rifle designed for intermediate range.

Bullet weight and type, powder, twist, barrel length, and the skill of the shooter are all factors.

My personal preference... beyond 400 yards, get a decent bolt gun in 6.5 CRM if ringing steel out to 1000 yards or learning how to put five rounds in one ragged hole is your thing. There are a lot of affordable factory rifles now that are sub MOA. Meaning the gun is better than the person shooting it.

Most 3 gun matches... the rifle stage ... the multiple targets are between 100 and 400 meters. I've seen them as far out as 600 in pro matches. The average schlub - even if well practiced has a tough time hitting a target at 600 yards with an AR. Especially under the pressure of time. On forums there's always a guy that says he can do that blindfolded in a hurricane. Yea, right.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

My range is the back 40 with no restrictions on ammo type or shooting style. Just basic common sense and firearm safety.

Lucky. That's why I mostly shoot on my own property. But distance is limited.

 

[Racer88]

The average schlub - even if well practiced has a tough time hitting a target at 600 yards with an AR.

To be fair... I'm not a schlub, and this isn't a garden-variety off-the-shelf AR.

Heh heh.... I can regularly shoot sub-MOA at 300 yards or less. But this was an extraordinary group, even for me!

 

[BlueBuck]

To be fair... I'm not a schlub, and this isn't a garden-variety off-the-shelf AR.

View attachment 31866
View attachment 31865

Heh heh.... I can regularly shoot sub-MOA at 300 yards or less. But this was an extraordinary group, even for me!
View attachment 31867

That’s a nice setup you got there, what’s the specs.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

To be fair... I'm not a schlub, and this isn't a garden-variety off-the-shelf AR.

View attachment 31866
View attachment 31865

Heh heh.... I can regularly shoot sub-MOA at 300 yards or less. But this was an extraordinary group, even for me!
View attachment 31867

Fair enough. That's good shooting. Some of the most common sniper rifles are semi autos now. Variants of the AR design but mostly piston gas systems. 600 yards is the outer limit of the typical AR. Certainly the 5.56/223 standard ammo. The long bull barrel, big glass on yours... not typical.

I can still see and shoot well enough to ring steel with a premium quality AR at 600 yards. But if you asked me what rifle I would prefer for any long distance shooting - let's say 500 yards and beyond - the last long gun I would choose would be an AR. It's not that I don't like the platform. This could be debated forever but if I had to pick the main reason for making that decision it would be the ergonomics of the AR are not optimal for precision shooting. Ceteris paribus... shooters being of equal skill, barrels being of equivalent quality, etc., I'd put money on the bolt gun shooter to win that contest every time.

As I've repeated many times... Choose the right gun for the right job. In short, there's time and place for a pocket gun and another for a custom fitted Government sized 1911. One isn't better than the other. Just better suited for the situation.

 

[Racer88]

That’s a nice setup you got there, what’s the specs.

A friend of mine built it for me years ago. Except since this photo was made, I've changed the trigger to a Geissele National Match Trigger. Also a different (vertical) grip now: APRG Precision Rifle Grip

 

[Racer88]

600 yards is the outer limit of the typical AR. Certainly the 5.56/223 standard ammo. The long bull barrel, big glass on yours... not typical.

Agree. In this case, more of a personal challenge... like shooting long distance with a .22LR. I'm using Federal Gold Medal Match 77-gr factory ammo in this AR.

But if you asked me what rifle I would prefer for any long distance shooting - let's say 500 yards and beyond - the last long gun I would choose would be an AR. It's not that I don't like the platform. This could be debated forever but if I had to pick the main reason for making that decision it would be the ergonomics of the AR are not optimal for precision shooting. Ceteris paribus... shooters being of equal skill, barrels being of equivalent quality, etc., I'd put money on the bolt gun shooter to win that contest every time.

Also agree. I really like my Ruger Precision Rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor. I can also consistently shoot sub-MOA, often sub-1/2-MOA out to 300 yards with that one.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

The RPR in 6.5 CRM is a terrific factory rifle for long range shooting. I liked it so much I bought the 308. It's a bit cheaper to shoot and the 308 performs well enough. Mostly I bought it because I have other long guns in 308 and a good stash of 308 ammo.

With relatively modest glass I have no trouble ringing steel at 800 yards with the 6.5 CRM rifle without spending half a day getting it dialed in. The 308 seems to perform the same up to 5-600 yards, but the 6.5 CRM shoots a bit longer and flatter. Seems to handle windage better too but that's just a casual observation. Both have the stock barrel. There are some outstanding aftermarket upgrades for the RPR that would help it perform even better. I put the Timney trigger on both of mine. That helped.

As we have discussed before, I got some disapproving looks at bench rest matches. Especially when I did well.

 

[BlueBuck]

Hmmm maybe I should of gotten RPR instead of the SFAR.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Hmmm maybe I should of gotten RPR instead of the SFAR.

Depends on what you use it for.

The SFAR is a terrific AR10. Light weight. I have an older DPMS Panther in 308 that I transformed into a hog gun and as much as I like it, it is heavy as a mofo.

Light weight isnt the best quality if you want to do precision shooting. Even so, unless you are going to challenge Jerry Miculek in a match, I wouldn't worry about it. It's a good quality rifle. Enjoy it. Sign up for hog hunting. That rifle would be perfect. Did you get the 16 or the 20 inch barrel?

 

[BlueBuck]

20 inch I had hunting in mind. Wanted to go to South Carolina and go hog hunting I just didn’t know if my 20 inch ar15 would cut it. But never the less I won’t able to do any hunting for a bit do too recent injuries.

Depends on what you use it for.

The SFAR is a terrific AR10. Light weight. I have an older DPMS Panther in 308 that I transformed into a hog gun and as much as I like it, it is heavy as a mofo.

Light weight isnt the best quality if you want to do precision shooting. Even so, unless you are going to challenge Jerry Miculek in a match, I wouldn't worry about it. It's a good quality rifle. Enjoy it. Sign up for hog hunting. That rifle would be perfect. Did you get the 16 or the 20 inch barrel?

 

[Bongo Lewi]

20 inch I had hunting in mind. Wanted to go to South Carolina and go hog hunting I just didn’t know if my 20 inch ar15 would cut it. But never the less I won’t able to do any hunting for a bit do too recent injuries.

The SFAR with the 20 inch barrel would be perfect for hogs. In 308 or 6.5 CRM. A decent optic and you are in business. Day hunting. Night is more fun but you need a thermal optic. Expensive.

Hunting... you cant really take an ethical shot greater than 300-400 yards. With any rifle. The odds of a kill shot are difficult at best and the animal suffers.

I recently put together a lightweight 6.5 CRM AR for hog hunting. To replace the Panther.

Shooting paper... That gun should do just fine out to 500 yards with a decent optic. Further with practice. Lots of 1000 yarders shoot 6.5 CRM or 308. You probably want a different gun if that's your ambition.

 

[GuitarmanNick]

My 5.56 AR barrels are all 1:7 twist except one, that is 1:8. They are reasonably accurate with either ammo.

I keep about 1000 rounds each of M193 and M855 on stripper clips. It is intended to be strictly for SHTF. Not accurate enough for hunting, and certainly not for precision shooting, IMHO.

Hopefully, it is still in the cans long after my time here has passed.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Most of the oinkers I have sent to Hell where they belong were 50 to 150 yards away. Once you fire the first shot, they start running. Hitting a moving swine is a lot harder than a paper bullseye. It's a real challenge.

When you do go... bring a pistol. Sometimes they get up and are very unhappy after you shoot 'em. In an abundance of caution, I routinely put a 10mm round in their head as I approach.

 

[Bobster]

I'd like to kick that metric motherfucker who wrote that "guide" in his standard nuts!
25.4cm = 10", 274.2m = 300yds

 

[Bongo Lewi]

My pronouns are metric and imperial