Optics on carry pistols??

Many of us here are "men and women of a certain age." Those who aren't... aren't far behind us! Read on!

MRDS (micro red dot sights) have been gaining in popularity. Yet, some of us cling to the old school, proven, low-tech ways. I totally get it. Part of the fundamentals of marksmanship is the use of iron sights... learning sight alignment and sight picture. I still think it's VERY important. And I will never give up iron sights entirely.

HOWEVER....

There are some significant advantages for pistol-mounted reflex sights.
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First... those of us whose eyes have aged and need "readers" (aka presbyopia), have noticed that we can't focus on that front iron sight very well. I have resorted to getting some "top focal" eye pro, which have a "bifocal" magnifying lens at the TOP of the lens on my dominant eye. I change the lens on the left side to a "bottom focal." That helps with any administrative firearms handling at the range bench.
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And, it works a CHARM! At the range. I highly recommend them. But, what about out in the "wild?" I wont' be wearing my top focal glasses, eh?

"Dot" optics don't require corrective lenses. In fact, they go blurry with readers.

Here's the other BIG advantage: "Dog forbid" you're ever forced to defend yourself "in the wild," the MRDS allows for a "threat-focused" sight picture. Both eyes open. Focused on the target. Super easy and very intuitive. Just superimpose the dot over the target.

Consider the time it takes to shift your point of focus from the target / threat to your front sight, even if you have "good eyes." With a "red / green dot," there's no shifting. You focus on the threat and STAY focused on the threat.

Caveat: I am also trained in "point" or "instinctive" shooting. At close distances, I won't likely be using sights at all. But, that's ANOTHER whole discussion, mmm-kay?

The only "trick" of the whole thing with MRDSes is getting used to "finding the dot."

Ah... but, here's another thing: You don't want to "find the dot." That's right. If you have to look for it, precious fractions of a second are ticking away in a SHTF moment. No bueno!

The KEY is to present the gun consistently such that the dot finds you. It's just there. Every time. You bring the gun up, and there's the dot. You learned how to do it with iron sights. You can learn how to do it with an MRDS.

This takes some practice. But, I promise you will get there, and it will happen faster than you think.

That said... Holosun has come out with a new reticle callled "Vulcan ACSS." It's pretty slick. It projects a LARGE outer ring that isn't there if the "dot" is in the center of the field of view. But, if you're "off," the edge of the circle shows up in the sight window and tells you which way you need to correct the orientation.
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I've got one of these new Holosun sights (with green reticle) on the way for my new P80 "EDC" build. You'll notice that it has a chevron rather than a dot. We'll see how I like that!

I've got two other MRDSes in my "stable." I mounted the "gold standard" Trijicon RMR (RM07) on my home defense FNP-45T years ago. It has a 6.5-MOA dot.
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More recently, I put one on my first P80 build, a G34 clone intended as a range toy. This is the Holosun HE507C-GR X2. It has a 2-MOA GREEN dot. I like the green color better, I think.
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But, this will be the first time I put one on a carry piece. This Polymer80 PFC9 G19-clone:
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As my eyes have changed, I am experiencing a newfound appreciation for MRDS optics. But, I also appreciate the ability to stay threat-focused even as I transition from instinctive to sighted fire.
 
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👏👏👏 Great write-up... A+

Everyone probably knows by now I'm a big fan of RDS, if it wasn't so expensive I would put on all my pistols. Just to reiterate, the benefit of RDS far out weighted using just iron sight. As the Hipster usually says... "The Future Is Now"

I'll add a few more caveats...
  • Dry practices - If you never had RDS it would take time, Vulcan ACSS reticle is great for beginners as it will help you find the Dot naturally.
  • Co-Withness - It was all the hype but personally it will make it more difficult to use RDS. Why would you want to use only half of the optic window? Never made good sense to me. Get 1/4 or 1/3 height.
  • Front/Rear of iron - There are merits for both, I have both and I don't see the iron when I'm using RDS.
  • Durability - For CCW most if not all of the optics nowadays are really good and durable. Trijicon RMR is the gold standard but they seem just seating on their concave optic window patent and have not innovated much. Holosun (yea it is made in China get over it) is getting fancy new products and seem to be the best bang for the buck.
  • Mill/footprint/adopter/screws - Required pain in my ass. Figure it out for your setup.
  • Stripped screws - OMFG~ How much I hate this. Use gel blue Loctite, I used too much liquid version. Do not over-tighten.

When you decided to get one, there are TONs options in 2022. Toolbox just drop new vid about RDS 2022 a few days ago

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r8w9Zy6ADc
 
Co-Withness - It was all the hype but personally it will make it more difficult to use RDS. Why would you want to use only half of the optic window? Never made good sense to me. Get 1/4 or 1/3 height.
I agree. My FNP-45T with RM07 is a full co-witness. It blocks half the window. So, for my BACK-UP iron sights on the new EDC build, I got "mid-height" for a 1/3 co-witness.

But, if I think about it... just the center of a blank window would likely be adequate at most (close) self-defense distances. In reality, in my case, at ~7-10 yards or less, I'll be point shooting if the SHTF.

Front/Rear of iron - There are merits for both, I have both and I don't see the iron when I'm using RDS.
I can't get over the weird esthetics of the rear sight in front of the optic. Not gonna do it. Just "don't look right!" :)

Holosun (yea it is made in China get over it) is getting fancy new products and seem to be the best bang for the buck.
From what little I've gathered... yeah... Holosun represents the best value in pistol optics on the market.

Mill/footprint/adopter/screws - Required pain in my ass. Figure it out for your setup.
I'd rather not use adapter plates.


Good addendum write-up, @Mooner !
 
hope you never have to deal with stripped or broken screws. I do not wish it even for my worst enemies... well I wish on Newsom and Hochul :LOL:

Stripped heads? Or stripped threads? How did it happen?

I use blue locktite and a torque driver.
 
Happened twice... stripped heads are usually what I get.

Stripped head optic screws, luckily I was able to get this out with an extractor I got from amazon.
Set screw from Johnny Glock flat trigger, after many attempts I emailed johnny and even he said he can not get it out either🤦‍♂️.
 
Happened twice... stripped heads are usually what I get.

Stripped head optic screws, luckily I was able to get this out with an extractor I got from amazon.
Set screw from Johnny Glock flat trigger, after many attempts I emailed johnny and even he said he can not get it out either🤦‍♂️.

Maybe it's your tools?? :) A bit pricey, but a very nice bit of kit.

Love my "FixIt Sticks."

I recently picked up a magnetic Glock front sight socket that fits into it: Fix It Sticks Glock Front Sight Bit
 
I have a Wheeler FAT wrench for torque sensitive applications.

The only optic I'm familiar with is the Holosun 510C. I believe the 507 has pretty much the same features, just scaled down for handguns. You can choose dot, dot in circle, or just the circle (6 moa, I believe). Shake and wake w/solar backup. It works quite well on an AR-22 pistol.
 
I am still really new at experimenting with the MRDS. I do have a Holosun mounted on one of my G19 builds. I liked the price and the fact that the battery can be changed without unmounting it. The P80 builds in general I have found are pretty accurate in the 5/7yd ranges. No exception with a red dot mounted. I am definitely in the school of aging eyes. That's one of the reasons I haven't worried too much about the Dicken drill -- seeing what I shoot not mentioning hitting it at 40 yards isn't in my comfort zone. With that said, this past weekend I did run a full mag at a "man target" at 25 yards (max distance at the indoor range) with it. Surprisingly all 15 hit the torso area overall and about half of them hit in the central "red" zone. I'll keep playing with it. I could see mounting one on a bump in the night gun, though that assumes I swap to a different gun as my current one is a .357 Mag revolver. I may just opt to get a bigger lock box so I can have two options to use :)

Certainly not sold on it being on a concealed carry for me for a number of reasons including that it adds a little additional bulk to conceal and that it is just another point of failure. Going with the odds, a defensive scenario in the wild is likely 5 to 7 yards or closer and the optic won't add much for me at least at this point. Not ruling it out forever. I'll likely get to a point where I have more than one mounted on range toys such that I get more comfortable with them and maybe even get that confidence boost, via practice, of targeting at longer ranges.
 
Maybe it's your tools?? :) A bit pricey, but a very nice bit of kit.
100% it was a user error, used too much Loctite. Now I use a tiny amount and use a soldering iron to heat that MOFO before unscrewing, haven't had stripped head since
 
100% it was a user error, used too much Loctite. Now I use a tiny amount and use a soldering iron to heat that MOFO before unscrewing, haven't had stripped head since

"A little dab will do ya." - showing my age.
 
Its not the proper tightness or loctite that I see most have issue with. Its either not using the correct adapter plate or a cheap one. And what I see is the biggest issue people have is sheared off screws. The good plates have recoil lugs built into them which ‘lock’ it into the slide and lugs that ‘lock’ the optic onto it. This way recoil and shear forces are evenly distributed. The Sig forum is where I see most of the discussions related to RDS’. And its maybe once a week somebody posts up about broken screws. And it always seems they tried to cut corners either with incorrect plate, a cheap one or without one. Most often since its the Sig forum its dealing with a Sig. Either the 320 or 365. Sig seems to regularly deal with this as even when its blatantly apparent it was the users fault they fix it. Getting those broken screws out seems to be a hell of a chore.
Good write up Racer👍
 
Its not the proper tightness or loctite that I see most have issue with. Its either not using the correct adapter plate or a cheap one. And what I see is the biggest issue people have is sheared off screws. The good plates have recoil lugs built into them which ‘lock’ it into the slide and lugs that ‘lock’ the optic onto it. This way recoil and shear forces are evenly distributed. The Sig forum is where I see most of the discussions related to RDS’. And its maybe once a week somebody posts up about broken screws. And it always seems they tried to cut corners either with incorrect plate, a cheap one or without one. Most often since its the Sig forum its dealing with a Sig. Either the 320 or 365. Sig seems to regularly deal with this as even when its blatantly apparent it was the users fault they fix it. Getting those broken screws out seems to be a hell of a chore.
Good write up Racer👍

Well, yeah... to depend on the screws to withstand shear forces without lugs... recipe for breakage.
I like that the Holosun mounts directly to a slide milled for the RMR pattern. No adapter plates needed. One less point of failure.
 
Well, yeah... to depend on the screws to withstand shear forces without lugs... recipe for breakage.
I like that the Holosun mounts directly to a slide milled for the RMR pattern. No adapter plates needed. One less point of failure.

Like I told you elsewhere I only have one gun thats RDS capable and thats the 320 AXG. I’ve been kicking around getting one for it for a while just to see what I see. See what I did there? 🤪
 
Like I told you elsewhere I only have one gun thats RDS capable and thats the 320 AXG. I’ve been kicking around getting one for it for a while just to see what I see. See what I did there? 🤪

Yeah... I got my first MRDS mainly because my new (at the time) FNH FNP-45T came milled for it. And it was my only gun that was milled... until I got the slide for my first P80 build - a G34 clone. So, I had to get one for that gun, too! And, then... I think I might be hooked.
 
OK... I just made this infographic. Not easy to get these shots. And, there's no way to get the reticle perfectly sharp with the camera, apparently. But, you can see it well enough to demonstrate how the new Holosun 507C with the "Vulcan ACSS" reticle works.
Vulcan-ACSS-Reticle-Demo.jpg


Pretty cool, eh?
 
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OK... I just made this infographic. Not easy to get these shots. And, there's no way to get the reticle perfectly sharp with the camera, apparently. But, you can see it well enough to demonstrate how this works.
View attachment 6311

Pretty cool, eh?
Yep, like training wheels for red dots. I have that same sight. 🤓
 
And when I finally locate the chevron I can use the point of the ^ to make a really precice (for me) aiming point. It gives the benefits of a 6 moa dot and a 1 moa dot in one sight.
 
And when I finally locate the chevron I can use the point of the ^ to make a really precice (for me) aiming point. It gives the benefits of a 6 moa dot and a 1 moa dot in one sight.

I like the chevron more than I thought I would. I've seen some complaints (online) that the chevron is "too small." I think it's perfect!
 
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