Proposed West Virginia Legislation Allowing Distribution of Machine Guns

[Bongo Lewi]

Everybody has an opinion on this.

Hope nobody gets carelessly shot by a dipshit who had no training or experience.

It’s true driving a car is not guaranteed by the constitution. I wonder how people would feel if the government decided nobody can own or drive a car. Or certain types of cars. Hmmm… where have I heard this argument before?

But seriously… owning a gun and the right to own a gun is not the same as being required to learn how to use it. This does not infringe. Neither does asking if someone is diagnosed mentally ill. Forget the public safety argument. How about common sense.

Nobody of sound mind would say it’s ok for a mental defective to buy a machine gun at Home Depot - because a retard or criminally insane person has a second amendment right.

 

[Racer88]

owning a gun and the right to own a gun is not the same as being required to learn how to use it. This does not infringe. Neither does asking if someone is diagnosed mentally ill. Forget the public safety argument. How about common sense.

What about knives? Ask the UK how that's working.

 

[FrankenGlock]

What about knives? Ask the UK how that's working.

The UK has gone full retard.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

What about knives? Ask the UK how that's working.

A lot of states and municipalities in the US ban certain types of knives. You can own but not carry them.

Hammers and baseball bats are frequent weapons.

Bring a machete to a PTA meeting or courtroom and see what happens.

I don’t like regulation but it’s a necessary evil in society. Too many of our fellow humans aren’t playing with a full deck.

It’s true anything can be a weapon. Some are just more effective than others.

 

[Racer88]

A lot of states and municipalities in the US ban certain types of knives. You can own but not carry them.

Hammers and baseball bats are frequent weapons.

Bring a machete to a PTA meeting or courtroom and see what happens.

I don’t like regulation but it’s a necessary evil in society. Too many of our fellow humans aren’t playing with a full deck.

It’s true anything can be a weapon. Some are just more effective than others.

Of course criminals and those with evil / violent intent are cognizant of those laws resulting in the foiling of their dastardly plans. Lucky for us, or we'd all be their helpless prey.

They don't just "bring a machete" to a PTA meeting. And they know EXACTLY what is going to happen.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

View: https://x.com/akafaceUS/status/2030707369617858649?s=20

Here’s the guy that injures or kills an innocent bystander. He’s not a criminal. I honestly don't give a fuck about the rights of the terminally stupid.. This is the type of untrained asshole who may someday make the mistake of pointing a gun at me at a range. Or maybe in a fit of anger in a parking lot or something else he's unhappy about. Because he is unskilled and undisciplined. Now, if he buys a gun to protect his home and leaves it there… no problem. Even though he will very likely be shot with his own weapon. But when he decides to carry a gun his risk to himself and everyone else is significantly increased.

Carry permit, mandatory training in my book. Two courses. 1. Basic gun safety; 2. Armed self-defense. I offer absolutely no compromise on that. It’s not required everywhere but should be. This has nothing to do with the right to own a gun. It has everything to do with knowing how and when to use it.

 

[seniormoment]

Many will disagree but my opinion is that removing the requirement for permits can and does lead to untrained individuals carrying firearms, thereby increasing the risks associated with mishandling weapons. It’s like allowing children to operate a vehicle as long as their foot can reach the gas pedal - and eliminating all drivers licenses.

If a sweeping law ever manages to pass Federally, eliminating permits nationwide, I believe that carrying a firearm is exposed to the whim of the next liberal majority. Never give the Feds power to ‘allow' anything.

The NRA has championed universal carry for years and I think that is a major fuckup. What and how someone carries is best managed at the state and local level. Go to a range and watch the morons who chose to get no training or instruction of any kind. The good news is that most of these booger eaters and bed wetters get bored and put the gun in the top shelf of their closet until their wife makes them sell it.

After watching some of these morons screw around and discharge a round unintentionally I kinda think it wouldn’t be such a bad idea for a mandatory safety class. Found a clip the other day where a guy handed a firearm to a little kid and it looked like he ended up getting shot in the face. I’ll post it if I find it again.

 

[Racer88]

View: https://x.com/akafaceUS/status/2030707369617858649?s=20

Here’s the guy that injures or kills an innocent bystander. He’s not a criminal. I honestly don't give a fuck about the rights of the terminally stupid.. This is the type of untrained asshole who may someday make the mistake of pointing a gun at me at a range. Or maybe in a fit of anger in a parking lot or something else he's unhappy about. Because he is unskilled and undisciplined. Now, if he buys a gun to protect his home and leaves it there… no problem. Even though he will very likely be shot with his own weapon. But when he decides to carry a gun his risk to himself and everyone else is significantly increased.

Carry permit, mandatory training in my book. Two courses. 1. Basic gun safety; 2. Armed self-defense. I offer absolutely no compromise on that. It’s not required everywhere but should be. This has nothing to do with the right to own a gun. It has everything to do with knowing how and when to use it.

You can give that guy ALL the training in the world, and he'll do the EXACT same thing. I know, because I've personally seen it. So many times.

I recently told the story here about the moron at the range who was told THREE TIMES to not approach the bench during the cold range. THREE times within a time period of 1 - 2 minutes. No shit. Twice by the range officer. Third time by me, who yelled it like a Marine DI. "Stay OFF the fucking bench!" Startled the shit out of him when I said it. He was a grown-ass adult. THREE TIMES in less than 2 minutes.

There are people, that no matter HOW many times you tell them to keep their fucking fingers OFF the trigger... they go RIGHT BACK to it. I had that problem with an attorney I was teaching. He just couldn't keep his finger off the trigger whenever he handled the weapon.

The same thing with muzzle discipline for some people.

No laws restricting MY Rights will fix stupid.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

You can give that guy ALL the training in the world, and he'll do the EXACT same thing. I know, because I've personally seen it. So many times.

I recently told the story here about the moron at the range who was told THREE TIMES to not approach the bench during the cold range. THREE times within a time period of 1 - 2 minutes. No shit. Twice by the range officer. Third time by me, who yelled it like a Marine DI. "Stay OFF the fucking bench!" Startled the shit out of him when I said it. He was a grown-ass adult. THREE TIMES in less than 2 minutes.

There are people, that no matter HOW many times you tell them to keep their fucking fingers OFF the trigger... they go RIGHT BACK to it. I had that problem with an attorney I was teaching. He just couldn't keep his finger off the trigger whenever he handled the weapon.

The same thing with muzzle discipline for some people.

No laws restricting MY Rights will fix stupid.

True. But how does triaining restrict anybody’s rights? It’s a logical solution to an obvious and widespread problem.

It’s true that training doesn’t fix a total moron. It does raise the bar for the skills of all gun owners who carry. Being able to purchase a handgun but requiring a permit to carry it has been pretty successful in must-issue states that require a safety class to get a carry permit. NC is one of them. The people in the class I had to take were total newbs. Men and women. Only a couple of them ever had a gun in their hand prior to that class. People who didnt grow up on farms or in rural communities where firearms were ’normal’ have no fucking clue what they are doing. It benefits city slickers and suburbanites to get training.

I have had a state-issued permit to carry for decades. Did I really need to take a class when I moved to NC? No. Did everybody else in the class? Definitely yes.

If gun training were more common and required, there would be fewer anti-gun assholes writing their congressman to advocate gun control. The kid who grew up up hunting, shooting clays or target shooting never votes for gun control when they become adults. Training and experience with guns eliminates irrational fear of them. The NRA was founded to do this and lost their way.

Having a permit also eliminates waiting periods and NICS checks. I dont see how that could be a bad thing or trample on anybody’s rights.

 

[Racer88]

But how does triaining restrict anybody’s rights?

This is the VACUOUS refrain of liberals and tyrants. Seriously. It is. Verbatim.

It's not the training that restricts anything. It's the REQUIREMENT as a prerequisite to asserting your Rights that is restrictive. Nobody is suggesting a prerequisite for ANY OTHER RIGHT. The 2A should not be treated any differently than ANY other Right.

I've taken a LOT of training. I'm not opposed to training. But I will STRONGLY oppose any such REQUIREMENT when it comes to Constitutional Rights.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

This is the VACUOUS refrain of liberals and tyrants. Seriously. It is. Verbatim.

It's not the training that restricts anything. It's the REQUIREMENT as a prerequisite to asserting your Rights that is restrictive. Nobody is suggesting a prerequisite for ANY OTHER RIGHT. The 2A should not be treated any differently than ANY other Right.

I've taken a LOT of training. I'm not opposed to training. But I will STRONGLY oppose any such REQUIREMENT when it comes to Constitutional Rights.

It has nothing to do with constitutional rights. That’s an opinion not a fact.

Kind of like how the first amendment does not mean you can say whatever you want without consequences. Speech that incites violence, makes true threats, or is considered obscene is not protected.

 

[Racer88]

It has nothing to do with constitutional rights. That’s an opinion not a fact.

Kind of like how the first amendment does not mean you can say whatever you want without consequences. Speech that incites violence, makes true threats, or is considered obscene is not protected.

I KNOW you're smarter than this. You are regurgitating the argument and justification of tyrants.

I'm sure you know there is NO PRIOR RESTRAINT when it comes to Free Speech. What you are suggesting is Prior Restraint for 2A Rights.

In BOTH cases, you care liable for DAMAGES caused by abusing those Rights, whether it be speech or guns.
So, yes... DAMAGING speech is not protected by the 1A, just as armed robbery and murder are not protected by the 2A.

But you cannot pass ANY law that PROHIBITS speech. Accordingly, there is no such law.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

I KNOW you're smarter than this. You are regurgitating the argument and justification of tyrants.

I'm sure you know there is NO PRIOR RESTRAINT when it comes to Free Speech. What you are suggesting is Prior Restraint for 2A Rights.

In BOTH cases, you care liable for DAMAGES caused by abusing those Rights, whether it be speech or guns.
So, yes... DAMAGING speech is not protected by the 1A, just as armed robbery and murder are not protected by the 2A.

But you cannot pass ANY law that PROHIBITS speech. Accordingly, there is no such law.

Gaslighting doesnt work on me.

Training does not prohibit the right to bear arms. It limits the unskilled from carrying a gun into public places until they are taught to use it.

Just like being taught by your parents or teachers that violent speech is not tolerated. If nobody ever was taught that, they wouldn’t know what violent speech was.

Literal interpretation of anything involving human behavior is full of logical potholes. I also don't subscribe to the philosophy of lex talionis, which goes hand in hand with those who interpret everything like it’s the law of physics. if I slip on a banana peel carelessly left on the floor in your kitchen, breaking my arm, I don't get to break your arm as compensation.

 

[rationale]

No laws restricting MY Rights will fix stupid.

This should be on giant billboards all over San Francisco.

 

[Racer88]

Training does not prohibit the right to bear arms. It limits the unskilled from carrying a gun into public places until they are taught to use it.

This is a self-contradictory statement. If training is required BEFORE you're "allowed" to carry (aka "bear") a firearm, then a lack of training prohibits bearing arms by citizens.

Just like being taught by your parents or teachers that violent speech is not tolerated. If nobody ever was taught that, they wouldn’t know what violent speech was.

Ah, but they don't require documentation or proof that your parents raised you well or properly BEFORE (or as a condition) you're "allowed" to exercise Free Speech.

Again... look up Prior Restraint. As much as you'd like to conflate the consequences of damaging speech with the IMAGINED prohibition of speech.... it's simply not true and never has been. You CANNOT PROHIBIT speech, and there is no such thing as prohibited speech.... and never has been. Being held accountable for the DAMAGES caused by speech is an entirely different thing. And if / when that happens, you are liable for the DAMAGES, not the speech itself.

There is no statute or punishment for the speech itself. Rather, there are legal remedies for the DAMAGES caused by speech (such as libel, slander, incitement of violence, threat of violence, etc.) Those remedies are for the damages, not the words themselves. This is really Free Speech 101. Yet I have to repeat it SO often. Really strange.

I can't sue you for calling me a poo-poo head. But if your calling me a poo-poo head on TV or in print causes TANGIBLE damages to my person or business, for example... I can sue you for those specific damages (libel / slander). But not the words, "poo-poo head." Also.... if it's true that I'm a poo-poo head, then I'd have no case.

 

[terraform]

Training does not prohibit the right to bear arms. It limits the unskilled from carrying a gun into public places until they are taught to use it.

Training in and of itself may not, but if the training costs money or is performed at an inconvenient time, it becomes a way to control who ultimately passes training and “earns the right” to carry. That’s why poll taxes were an issue… yeah, most people that want something could pay $20 or $50 or whatever for it, but some people can’t genuinely afford it. Then that $50 becomes a prohibition.

And before someone says “If you can afford a gun, you can afford a $50 training”: my first gun was given to me. So was my brother’s, and my son’s, and I assume hundreds of thousands of other Americans. So no, I wouldn’t buy that argument.

Now of the government provided free training that I could schedule whenever I wanted… maybe there could be a case for requiring training before I could use a firearm. Maybe. I’m personally more in Racer’s camp where giving the government any strings in owning firearms is a bad idea.

 

[rationale]

I bet if we lived in a society where there were still rifle clubs at the local high school we'd have a lot less darwin award nominees.

But a society with high school rifle clubs requires a high-trust, culturally homogeneous society.

I said what I said.

 

[FrankenGlock]

When I was in high school, students had guns and gun racks in the back of their truck. No one was scared the students would do something stupid.

 

[Racer88]

When I was in high school, students had guns and gun racks in the back of their truck. No one was scared the students would do something stupid.

We had that, too. Many would hunt before and after school. My school also offered the Hunter Safety course on campus.

And every proper southern boy carried a pocketknife AT school.

Nobody got shot. Nobody was stabbed. Imagine that.

 

[FrankenGlock]

We had that, too. Many would hunt before and after school. My school also offered the Hunter Safety course on campus.

And every proper southern boy carried a pocketknife AT school.

Nobody got shot. Nobody was stabbed. Imagine that.

Folding Buck knives were popular then too. We would play with them on break or whenever and often like a fidget spinner. No one said anything ever and no one ever did anything nefarious with them either.