RIP. This company's ammo is radical.

[Bongo Lewi]

Here's the ballistic gel image of their 10mm round. They offer this bullet design in all the popular calibers. Including a 12 ga slug that breaks into five pieces upon impact.

There's little doubt in my mind these are incredibly lethal. if you are not shooting thru something, like auto glass.

For self-defense, I prefer solid copper bullets now over hollow points. But for a short shotgun in home defense, whereby the bad guy is only a few feet away, the RIP 12 ga slug will wreak havoc. Two shells, game over.

I do wonder what legal ramifications may come up if you use this ammo. The time for thinking is long before you find yourself needing to pull the trigger on someone. Would anyone considerd the use of this type of ammo excessive?

 

[Racer88]

The "RIP" ammo has been around for a number of years. Maybe the shotgun version is new. Not sure.

"Extra deadly" boutique ammo with hyperbolic and provocative branding has been around for a long time... and they come and go.

I'd stay away from it. For at least a couple of reasons I can think of. First... it's unproven. On the other hand, designs like Federal HST (as just one example) have been proven in the field by law enforcement.

Another reason is legal optics, if you are ever so unfortunate as to be forced to defend your life. Using "RIP" ammo will have the same optics as "Punisher" skull or "FAFO" adornments on your weapon. Those things alone, may not (and probably won't) convict you. But they will not help your case.

Any 12-ga slug is going to be devastating to a threat.

When it comes to pistol calibers, though... think about the physics involved in a segmented projectile. Each small piece that breaks off dissipates the total kinetic energy. That's the reason modern race cars fly apart in crashes. It's by design. Each piece that flies off takes kinetic energy with it, instead of the driver absorbing the impact of the entire intact car. Put another way... the pieces flying away from the car decreases the momentum of the part of the car containing the driver. So, that's another reason I believe a segmented pistol projectile will be less effective in transferring kinetic energy to the vital organs (deeper) of the threat. It spreads it out.

Anyhoo... that's how I see it. It's a pass for me.

 

[Racer88]

That ballistic gel test STILL photo only supports my assertion that the segmented ammo is LESS effective.

I'd like to see a slo-mo video of it, to observe the cavitation or lack thereof (which is what I would expect).

 

[Racer88]

OK... found a video.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sas9N3OmuM

Here's a freeze frame of the max cavitation:

Note that the biggest part of the cavitation is near the surface or entry point of the projectile.

Now let's look at the Federal HST. Initial cavitation:

Secondary cavitation by HST:

Here's the video:

✂️ Federal HST 9mm

8 seconds · Clipped by Racer88 · Original video "HST® Conquers Competition In FBI Tests" by Federal Ammunition

youtube.com

In the end, the differences in the cavitations in the videos are not that obvious. But, I'll stick with the proven HST round from a long-established and reputable company like Federal. I hope I never have to use it for anything other than punching holes in paper.

 

[BeerHunter]

The "RIP" ammo has been around for a number of years. Maybe the shotgun version is new. Not sure.

"Extra deadly" boutique ammo with hyperbolic and provocative branding has been around for a long time... and they come and go.

I'd stay away from it. For at least a couple of reasons I can think of. First... it's unproven. On the other hand, designs like Federal HST (as just one example) have been proven in the field by law enforcement.

Another reason is legal optics, if you are ever so unfortunate as to be forced to defend your life. Using "RIP" ammo will have the same optics as "Punisher" skull or "FAFO" adornments on your weapon. Those things alone, may not (and probably won't) convict you. But they will not help your case.

Any 12-ga slug is going to be devastating to a threat.

When it comes to pistol calibers, though... think about the physics involved in a segmented projectile. Each small piece that breaks off dissipates the total kinetic energy. That's the reason modern race cars fly apart in crashes. It's by design. Each piece that flies off takes kinetic energy with it, instead of the driver absorbing the impact of the entire intact car. Put another way... the pieces flying away from the car decreases the momentum of the part of the car containing the driver. So, that's another reason I believe a segmented pistol projectile will be less effective in transferring kinetic energy to the vital organs (deeper) of the threat. It spreads it out.

Anyhoo... that's how I see it. It's a pass for me.
View attachment 13886

This, and. . .

OK... found a video.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sas9N3OmuM

Here's a freeze frame of the max cavitation:

View attachment 13887

Note that the biggest part of the cavitation is near the surface or entry point of the projectile.

Now let's look at the Federal HST. Initial cavitation:
View attachment 13888

Secondary cavitation by HST:
View attachment 13889

Here's the video:

✂️ Federal HST 9mm

8 seconds · Clipped by Racer88 · Original video "HST® Conquers Competition In FBI Tests" by Federal Ammunition

youtube.com

In the end, the differences in the cavitations in the videos are not that obvious. But, I'll stick with the proven HST round from a long-established and reputable company like Federal. I hope I never have to use it for anything other than punching holes in paper.

. . .and this! I'll stick with ammo LEAs issue to their LEOs, which I can defend any attack from a zealous prosecutor's stupid question, "Why did you use xyz ammo?" Me, "Because that's what Sheriff Schmuckatelli issues all his deputies!" SCROOM!

 

[Bongo Lewi]

True, ammo makers large and small have been playing with ostensibly "more lethal" bullet designs for a long time. Let's not forget mobsters rubbing garlic on lead bullets (which is bullshit). Or mercury. It's funny how many people believe those yarns and repeat them.

I generally agree with everything you mentioned. A 'hydraulic' wound cavity from a spinning solid projectile or one created by expansion isn't really all that different. There are pros and cons to hollow points vs. solid copper projectiles. There's no clear winner. I like solid copper pistol rounds because it passes through glass without deforming and in my experience they tend to feed more reliably ... more like FMJs ... in a variety of handguns. I especially like them in the smaller calibers, where velocity is lower and hollow points tend to be less effective. Solid copper hunting rounds are gaining in popularity. They do mushroom a little and are faster and thus penetrate deeper. No-Lead laws like those in CA are also driving some of this adoption.

Q: What do you call a hunter in California? A: Endangered species.

Bullets that intentionally fragment? It is spot-on that the bullet rapidly loses velocity as it comes apart. Then again, the cause of death from a gunshot is almost always bleeding out. The exceptions are ending neurological function with a headshot or stopping the heart. It takes a few minutes for someone to bleed out. One could argue more organs or arteries cut, more and faster bleeding. I think that's the theory behind these shredding-type bullets. Ballistic gel testing provides some interesting data but doesn't answer that question.

My thinking is these shredder-type rounds are probably effective in close quarters but when the Coroner examines the damage to the bad guy's insides, he or she may determine excessive force was applied. Probably not worth the risk.

Why even bring this up? Most of my friends live in the suburbs of major metropolitan centers. They all tell me there has been a sharp increase in crime. The riffraff from the inner cities are spreading into Ward and June Cleaver's neighborhoods. That suggests to me home invasion is going to increase. Bad guys tend to pick soft targets. Personally, I'm going to detect a perp coming long before he gets into my house and he's going to have a bad day. But I think most suburbanites are woefully unprepared.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Here's a freeze frame of the max cavitation:

I think I have the answer for my suburban friends. When confronted, impale the intruder with an ice cream cone

 

[Racer88]

I think I have the answer for my suburban friends. When confronted, impale the intruder with an ice cream cone
View attachment 13891
View attachment 13890

LOL! I saw the exact same thing! Though, I prefer chocolate.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

LOL! I saw the exact same thing! Though, I prefer chocolate.

Chocolate? Well, aren't you the wild and crazy guy!

I'm more of a sesame gelato with miso caramel, cookies, and ramen type. Or spicy peanut curry coconut ice cream.

Don't knock it until you have tried it!

If nothing else is available, salted caramel or New York cherry.

 

[Alpa Chino]

A 12 gauge slug, any no name brand 1 oz will be devastating at HD/SD ranges.
No need for any extra anything.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

A 12 gauge slug, any no name brand 1 oz will be devastating at HD/SD ranges.
No need for any extra anything.

What if the intruder rubbed this on beforehand?

But seriously... This is a reasonably objective review. G2 Research R.I.P. Ammunition Review and Testing

The 'trocars' that break off a find their own path do lack penetration. Only 4-6 inches in a 4-5 inch spread. That seems like a pretty nasty wound. A regular hollow point like the 9mm HST creates a wound channel that is about the diameter of a quarter. The amount of soft tissue that a traditional round like that damages has been likened to the length and width of a hot dog.

Is any of that needed? Nope. Neither are hollow points really. But it's an interesting topic.

Effectiveness in defensive shooting is always determined by shot placement.

 

[Alpa Chino]

What if the intruder rubbed this on beforehand?

View attachment 13935

As long as we’re not fighting in Liberia or Somalia I think we’ll be just alright with Walmart slugs. You know from back in the day when they actually sold them.

 

[NavyVet83]

My HD 12G is loaded with Rodesian Jungle rounds.... hopefully I never need em.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

As long as we’re not fighting in Liberia or Somalia I think we’ll be just alright with Walmart slugs. You know from back in the day when they actually sold them.

Damn shame. Because I hear you can walk out the door with anything you want at Walmart and don't have to pay for it. I guess they did a trial in California and it worked so well it's everywhere now.

Low Everyday Prices are now No Everyday Prices. I need to get in on that.

 

[Bobster]

The Slo-Mo guys on gootoob do some VERY interesting videos on projectiles hitting gelatin. Worth a search...

What no one has mentioned is how an expanded hollowpoint is rotating quite vigorously as it bores its way into a body...

 

[Bongo Lewi]

I made a batch of ballistic gel once. Just for fun. What a mess. I'll not do that again.

I am fascinated by how different projectiles perform. To @Alpa Chino 's point, you really don't need to get fancy. Conventional pistol or shotgun rounds do just fine. Even so, there's a lot of interesting physics behind all the unconventional designs. I'm reluctant to be dismissive of anything until I see it properly tested.

A good example of thinking differently are larger military munitions like modern bunker busters. The point being that even with small arms, ammunition types can be purpose-built for specific situations. If you go back a few years, flechette shotgun shells were determined to be useful where the vegetation is dense - jungle fighting.

What caught my attention with these RIP rounds is the trocars, or perhaps better described as talons that are designed to shred vs. simply drill holes like FMJs and hollow points. Are they more effective in stopping a threat quicker? I think the jury is still out on that. The amateurs on YouBoob who have done backyard tests are mostly a bunch of Gomers and Goobers. RIPs claims also seem a bit grand.

Regarding pistol or rifle rounds, these RIP-type projectiles are rather pointless. Two shots to the center mass and if necessary a third to the skull is the optimal defensive technique. Ammo type is not a big deal in that scenario. For a home defense shotgun or shortie... I think these unconventional rounds could offer some close-range advantage. Mainly, not over-penetrating (passing through walls) and creating a wound that would incapacitate an intruder more effectively than a slug or shot.

 

[Alpa Chino]

I think marketing hype goes hand in hand with the pseudoscience of infomercial testing protocols.
We all use the euphemisms of stopping the threat or disabling the threat.
This does not necessarily mean death, although frequently it is a result of it.
Increasing the lethality of a wound does not immediately result in increasing one shot stop.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

I think marketing hype goes hand in hand with the pseudoscience of infomercial testing protocols.
We all use the euphemisms of stopping the threat or disabling the threat.
This does not necessarily mean death, although frequently it is a result of it.
Increasing the lethality of a wound does not immediately result in increasing one shot stop.

True. Gun and ammo makers are no different than tobacco or car companies when it comes to marketing.

Stopping a threat is really about time. As in how fast it can be accomplished. Bleeding out to the point of being disabled takes time. One quart per minute cannot be exceeded. So six minutes to empty. Some may argue being down 3 quarts is disabling. So perhaps three minutes. That's a long time. Pain is an accompanying factor, but unpredictable. Heart or brain/spinal wound ... immediate lights out.

 

[Viking2721]

These things are not made for intellectual gun enthusiasts who are posting projectile pics and talking kinetic energy and balistics. I think they are made for 1 reason only, they look bas ass, hence the see through shell. I wouldn't fire that nasty looking thing through my $1000.00 shot gun, but through my sawed off throw away, I'd be interested to see what it did to a piece of plywood, but to a person? I saw these at a recent gun show. A lot of people had 1 box, no one bought a case. Those things are a curiosity at best, but I will agree with the fact they look super Bad Ass

 

[Viking2721]

I just read your post again. 10mm???? Damn!!! If the Zombie apocalypse ever becomes a real issue Ill buy a case or 2.