RIP. This company's ammo is radical.

Regarding bullet marketing and 10mm. What does a hard cast lead bullet offer that a plain jane FMJ does not, especially in the case of shooting bears with handguns?
 
Bongo Lewi said:
True, ammo makers large and small have been playing with ostensibly "more lethal" bullet designs for a long time. Let's not forget mobsters rubbing garlic on lead bullets (which is bullshit). Or mercury. It's funny how many people believe those yarns and repeat them.

I generally agree with everything you mentioned. A 'hydraulic' wound cavity from a spinning solid projectile or one created by expansion isn't really all that different. There are pros and cons to hollow points vs. solid copper projectiles. There's no clear winner. I like solid copper pistol rounds because it passes through glass without deforming and in my experience they tend to feed more reliably ... more like FMJs ... in a variety of handguns. I especially like them in the smaller calibers, where velocity is lower and hollow points tend to be less effective. Solid copper hunting rounds are gaining in popularity. They do mushroom a little and are faster and thus penetrate deeper. No-Lead laws like those in CA are also driving some of this adoption.

Q: What do you call a hunter in California? A: Endangered species. :)

Bullets that intentionally fragment? It is spot-on that the bullet rapidly loses velocity as it comes apart. Then again, the cause of death from a gunshot is almost always bleeding out. The exceptions are ending neurological function with a headshot or stopping the heart. It takes a few minutes for someone to bleed out. One could argue more organs or arteries cut, more and faster bleeding. I think that's the theory behind these shredding-type bullets. Ballistic gel testing provides some interesting data but doesn't answer that question.

My thinking is these shredder-type rounds are probably effective in close quarters but when the Coroner examines the damage to the bad guy's insides, he or she may determine excessive force was applied. Probably not worth the risk.

Why even bring this up? Most of my friends live in the suburbs of major metropolitan centers. They all tell me there has been a sharp increase in crime. The riffraff from the inner cities are spreading into Ward and June Cleaver's neighborhoods. That suggests to me home invasion is going to increase. Bad guys tend to pick soft targets. Personally, I'm going to detect a perp coming long before he gets into my house and he's going to have a bad day. But I think most suburbanites are woefully unprepared.
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The garlic on ammo might be more effective against vampires
 
Viking2721 said:
These things are not made for intellectual gun enthusiasts who are posting projectile pics and talking kinetic energy and balistics. I think they are made for 1 reason only, they look bas ass, hence the see through shell. I wouldn't fire that nasty looking thing through my $1000.00 shot gun, but through my sawed off throw away, I'd be interested to see what it did to a piece of plywood, but to a person? I saw these at a recent gun show. A lot of people had 1 box, no one bought a case. Those things are a curiosity at best, but I will agree with the fact they look super Bad Ass
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Nobody would buy a case. Unless there's a zombie apocalypse. The most I would buy is two boxes. One box to test and play around with, and if that works out the other for an unlucky home intruder. I read a review that said the main projectile penetrated 3/4 inch plywood. That checks the box on one of the FBI tests. I also would not put these in any of my sporting shotguns. It would probably mess up the choke. I saw these as strictly something for a shorty. Maybe.

I'm going to get a box of these shells just for shits and grins. See what it does for myself.
 
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They already make bullets for vampires... ;)

silvertip.JPG

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it but there is a guy on gootoob that puts all sorts of odd stuff in shotgun shells and fires them. I don't follow him but have watched a few of his videos. I'm probably going to butcher the user name: "taefladermaus"
 
Bobster said:
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it but there is a guy on gootoob that puts all sorts of odd stuff in shotgun shells and fires them. I don't follow him but have watched a few of his videos. I'm probably going to butcher the user name: "taefladermaus"
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I recall him making slugs and bullets out of glass. They worked surprisingly well.
 
Bobster said:
They already make bullets for vampires... ;)

View attachment 13986

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it but there is a guy on gootoob that puts all sorts of odd stuff in shotgun shells and fires them. I don't follow him but have watched a few of his videos. I'm probably going to butcher the user name: "taefladermaus"
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Taofledermaus and Officer Greg, unfortunately Danny passed away.
They test anything youā€™ll send them and some are remarkably good.
 
Alex said:
Regarding bullet marketing and 10mm. What does a hard cast lead bullet offer that a plain jane FMJ does not, especially in the case of shooting bears with handguns?
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There isn't a huge difference. Mostly myth. Hardcast bullets sprang from the days of big bore revolvers. One possibly minor advantage for the hardcast bullet is that it is shaped differently. Hardcast offers the penetration and deformation resistance of an FMJ with a more destructive profile. Also, hardcast bullets typically have greater mass than FMJs. Inertia being directly related to mass, it has a measurable effect on penetration.

A large bear's skull is very thick and it is made up of angles resembling an Abrams tank. Anything short of a direct hit, a round can deflect. Then all you've done is piss him or her off. :)

For 10mm I never bothered with hardcast rounds. before switching to 10mm, my last ditch bear gun was a Ruger Alaskan in 454 Casull. Hand cannon. It literally hurts when you pull the trigger.

I had a number of close encounters with bears and big cats. Never had to kill one. They dont prey on humans. The only time they get aggressive is when there are cubs around. Still, if you aren't paying attention and piss off momma bear, you better have an adequate pistol ready. In semi-auto, nothing less than 10mm. Wheelguns ? 454 Casull, .50 S&W or 44 Mag. Anything less is unwise.
 
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Bobster said:
They already make bullets for vampires... ;)

View attachment 13986

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it but there is a guy on gootoob that puts all sorts of odd stuff in shotgun shells and fires them. I don't follow him but have watched a few of his videos. I'm probably going to butcher the user name: "taefladermaus"
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Silver bullets are used on werewolves. Thatā€™s what I heard, anyway.
 
seniormoment said:
Silver bullets are used on werewolves. Thatā€™s what I heard, anyway.
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OOPS! ;) I got my monster lore mixed up! :D So I guess I'll have to make some cartridges with wooden bullets in them. I would hope a mag full of them would equal the mass of a stake and put the vampire down. But good to know I'm covered if a werewolf attacks me... :D
 
Bobster said:
OOPS! ;) I got my monster lore mixed up! :D So I guess I'll have to make some cartridges with wooden bullets in them. I would hope a mag full of them would equal the mass of a stake and put the vampire down. But good to know I'm covered if a werewolf attacks me... :D
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Don't forget the holy water and a crucifix.
 
Bobster said:
OOPS! ;) I got my monster lore mixed up! :D So I guess I'll have to make some cartridges with wooden bullets in them. I would hope a mag full of them would equal the mass of a stake and put the vampire down. But good to know I'm covered if a werewolf attacks me... :D
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Just like the Lone Ranger
 
Alex said:
Regarding bullet marketing and 10mm. What does a hard cast lead bullet offer that a plain jane FMJ does not, especially in the case of shooting bears with handguns?
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Lead Fouling.
 
Bongo Lewi said:
There isn't a huge difference. Mostly myth. Hardcast bullets sprang from the days of big bore revolvers. One possibly minor advantage for the hardcast bullet is that it is shaped differently. Hardcast offers the penetration and deformation resistance of an FMJ with a more destructive profile. Also, hardcast bullets typically have greater mass than FMJs. Inertia being directly related to mass, it has a measurable effect on penetration.

A large bear's skull is very thick and it is made up of angles resembling an Abrams tank. Anything short of a direct hit, a round can deflect. Then all you've done is piss him or her off. :)

For 10mm I never bothered with hardcast rounds. before switching to 10mm, my last ditch bear gun was a Ruger Alaskan in 454 Casull. Hand cannon. It literally hurts when you pull the trigger.

I had a number of close encounters with bears and big cats. Never had to kill one. They dont prey on humans. The only time they get aggressive is when there are cubs around. Still, if you aren't paying attention and piss off momma bear, you better have an adequate pistol ready. In semi-auto, nothing less than 10mm. Wheelguns ? 454 Casull, .50 S&W or 44 Mag. Anything less is unwise.
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357sig hurling these should work. They punch windshield glass at an angle like it's hardly there
 

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Alex said:
Regarding bullet marketing and 10mm. What does a hard cast lead bullet offer that a plain jane FMJ does not, especially in the case of shooting bears with handguns?
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Lots of geezers talk about the need for carrying a heavy, deep penetrating bullet when shooting big game with a pistol. That was true at one time, but today I'm not convinced hard cast provides any significant advantage over modern FMJs or JHPs. Solid copper provides the best of all worlds in my view.

At pistol range you are going to get one shot at a pissed off bear coming at you. As with most defensive situations, shot placement is more important than the type of ammo in your pistol.
 
My takeaway is hard cast bullets offer the same performance as FMJ at twice the cost while lead fouling my barrel, got it. šŸ˜
 
I personally carry 5 +1 10mm Underwood 155gr XTP this is its TWC! Backed by 5liberty 9 underwood xtream defenders in 1 mag the other spare is 10 liberty and 10 defenders alternating, reason for the mix is just in case threat behind cover and/or has armor has. I hope that I don't but if I do I hope I don't need to use more tha 1 shot per target bot if I do I'm prepaired.
 

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Just my personal experience, FMJ entry points have been hardER to find, where large cavity HP leaves a cookie cutter hole on impact. Also FMJ did very little damage to organs where some hollow points ripped threw like a blender.
The deep penetrating rounds us geezers are so fond of is due to the fact angry bear, lions etc dont really give a crap about hydrostatic shock theory, but care alot about bones being crushed by high velocity impacts. Which is kinda the point of stuff like a solid 404 Jefferys. Lmao
 
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