Serialized P80 PFC9 - EDC Build Diary

[Racer88]

That looks great! Are you going to remove the mold marks from the grip area? That would look even better.

How do you remove those without messing up the surrounding matte finish?

Or I can just stop taking sharply-focused photos up so close!

 

[Code_Name_Eric]

How do you remove those without messing up the surrounding matte finish?

Or I can just stop taking sharply-focused photos up so close!

Haha, well, I've not tried it yet, but MGB has a video about it. And yes, your pix are very well done!

 

[Racer88]

Haha, well, I've not tried it yet, but MGB has a video about it. And yes, your pix are very well done!

I'll have to look for that video. I don't remember seeing that. I remember about removing the little nib below the trigger safety tab. But, not the rest of the seams.

 

[Code_Name_Eric]

I'll have to look for that video. I don't remember seeing that. I remember about removing the little nib below the trigger safety tab. But, not the rest of the seams.

I don't recall which one it is, I do believe it's in the library. I've only watched it once, but IIRC he was using the green polishers, perhaps, to blend in the seam, like doing so with the residue left from tab removal. I think he went all around the trigger guard and grip.

 

[Racer88]

Planning to go to the range this afternoon!

 

[drnls]

Racer - in the first pics of the slide the color looks to be bronze and then later it looks black. Is this the same slide or just lighting effects?

 

[Racer88]

Racer - in the first pics of the slide the color looks to be bronze and then later it looks black. Is this the same slide or just lighting effects?

Different lighting. That was a quick photo at the office. It also had some oil on it. The subsequent photos are in my photo light box at home.

 

[drnls]

Thanks. I was looking for that color on the link you posted.

 

[Racer88]

Thanks. I was looking for that color on the link you posted.

Yeah, the slide and barrel are black.

 

[Racer88]

Just got back from the range. Success / failure. The good part... It goes bang. And, I shoot pretty well with it! But, I had a bunch of failures to feed... similar to the initial test of my 2nd build. With that one, it was the extractor that needed a bit of filing for a smoother transition. Once I did that, it was flawless. I'll take a look at this one and see if it's the same thing.

So, a bit of de-bugging, and she should be good to go. I'll post more later with photos.

 

[Racer88]

One of my targets. I was happy with the accuracy / consistency overall.

Now I have to work out the FTFs. I did with the 2nd build. She'll be humming like a sewing machine soon!

Overall, I'm quite tickled with the outcome of this build. Even better when she's running flawlessly and has an optic on it!

 

[Racer88]

The following quotes were from another thread (on my 2nd build):

I would say your ammo isn't liking the Extractor. Looks like an Apex? I would pull it and sand the bottom edge of the Extractor 'finger' where the casing comes in, also make sure the Extractor isn't over-seating into the slide cut-out for it and hitting the side of the casing rim itself.

You mentioned "over-seating" of the extractor. Here's how it looks next to the same on my "Goldi" build, which has no FTFs.

FWIW, the extractor on the newest build (black) is an OEM extractor. "Goldi" has a billet extractor.

Here's what the breech face looks like (before):

I hit it with some 400 grit paper wrapped on a triangular file. I didn't go at it hard. Fairly light.
Here's how it looks now (after):

I also hit that lower corner of the extractor with the same 400 grit paper just enough to take the sharp feel of it (using my finger-gauge).

We'll see if this does it. It did for Build #2.

 

[Racer88]

After dressing the breech face and extractor last night, I cycled 3 full mags of snap caps without any issue.

OK... Range Test #2!​

I wanted to get right back to the range - anxious to see if the work I did resolved the FTF issue.

Right off the bat... It was running like a top! Woohoo! The gun fired 110 flawless rounds!
As you'll see... my "pushing left" demon persists.

There was an instructor in the booth to my right working with a student. We talked, and I'll probably schedule some instruction time with him.

The friendly instructor fired 30 rounds at Target #4 (no target photo) to demonstrate some concepts.

And, then... the FTF gremlin reappeared during my last 20 shots of FMJ ammo. The round was angled up towards the chamber, but stuck - with the slide about a 1/4 - 3/8ths of an inch out of battery.

This time around, I was NOT able to get the slide (and round) to go into battery with a smack on the back of the slide. I had to drop the mag and then rack the slide to drop that round through the magwell.

With that same mag, when I put the jammed round back at the top of the mag and inserted it into the pistol, I could not get the first round to chamber several times after clearing the malfunction. I switched mags, and the first round chambered. But a subsequent round jammed the same way during shooting.

Then, I was out of FMJ ammo. And, my hour of range time was coming to an end. 5 minutes left!

I had brought half a box of Winchester SXT 147-gr hollowpoints just in case I decided I wanted to test them at the end. And, so I did. 25 rounds fired, including some "COM" rapid fire (instinctive shooting) - no malfunctions.

So, I'm not completely sure if it's an AMMO issue.... a MAG issue... or I need to dress the breech and extractor a little more. I'm assuming it's the latter and will proceed accordingly and test again.

So, it was MUCH better. But, I was disappointed with the FTFs after the first 110 rounds fired flawlessly. For a while there I was think, "YOU DA MAN!" And, then.... "D'OH!"

 

[Racer88]

I just entered all the parts into my database. I was pleased to find this build actually came out fairly "economical."

 

[SNBI125]

Interesting advice from Mas on this topic. I've actually had serial numbers engraved on a few of my AR builds, but they were simply cosmetic, as I was having some decorative engraving done and figured I'd throw on a serial number, kinda just for the heck of it, and also I've heard it's a good idea in case of theft. I actually did include my initials in the numbers, not for the reasons he said but just so it would likely be unique in case I ever needed it to be for whatever reason. I haven't done any of my P80 or P320 builds though.

I think I'll take his advice and start getting my builds at least "cosmetically" serialized, which from my reading sounds like it would meet the intention of his advice. None is quite ready yet to be carried or staged for home defense. Some are running very reliably now but they're either new or I've just recently worked out some issues and haven't gotten the 500-1,000 failure-free rounds through them yet.

 

[Racer88]

Interesting advice from Mas on this topic. I've actually had serial numbers engraved on a few of my AR builds, but they were simply cosmetic, as I was having some decorative engraving done and figured I'd throw on a serial number, kinda just for the heck of it, and also I've heard it's a good idea in case of theft. I actually did include my initials in the numbers, not for the reasons he said but just so it would likely be unique in case I ever needed it to be for whatever reason. I haven't done any of my P80 or P320 builds though.

I think I'll take his advice and start getting my builds at least "cosmetically" serialized, which from my reading sounds like it would meet the intention of his advice. None is quite ready yet to be carried or staged for home defense. Some are running very reliably now but they're either new or I've just recently worked out some issues and haven't gotten the 500-1,000 failure-free rounds through them yet.

His comments on it are not quite clear. But, what is clear to me is that in his case the serial numbers were applied by an FFL before delivery to him. That means the serial numbers are recorded in the FFLs books.

I do not believe "cosmetic" serial numbers engraved by the end user or a trophy shop would qualify as "serialized" in the legal sense.

That's why I went the route of a factory-serialized receiver with a NICS check. No questions or wiggle room that way. "Serialized" effectively means "paper trail." The same kind of paper trail as with a factory gun... at least to the initial purchaser.

 

[SNBI125]

His comments on it are not quite clear. But, what is clear to me is that in his case the serial numbers were applied by an FFL before delivery to him. That means the serial numbers are recorded in the FFLs books.

I do not believe "cosmetic" serial numbers engraved by the end user or a trophy shop would qualify as "serialized" in the legal sense.

That's why I went the route of a factory-serialized receiver with a NICS check. No questions or wiggle room that way. "Serialized" effectively means "paper trail." The same kind of paper trail as with a factory gun... at least to the initial purchaser.

Hmm, yeah I guess one could read that either way. He did say that his were serialized at the factory but he also mentioned (without discouragement) going to a non-FFL for engraving, which would at least demonstrate law-abiding intentions. Will mull that over for a while... But, I'm curious though, how would the paper trail work for something like your serialized P80, or even going through an FFL for an already finished one? My understanding is that in order to trace a firearm using the serial number (in theory - going out on a limb and assuming there isn't actually a searchable database) a law enforcement agency would start with the manufacturer, find out the retailer/FFL to whom they sold it, and go to that FFL and find the record of the sale (then repeat if necessary and possible). But how would such a search begin for a P80? Are those like yours serialized by Polymer 80 at the time of manufacturing, or finished and serialized by someone else? If it's the latter, I imagine there would be a limited number of FFLs that do that, and a law enforcement agency could potentially try all of them. But if I were to "legally" serialize one that I purchased as an 80% frame, I could take that to any FFL. How would anyone know where to begin to trace that? Or am I way off on my understanding of how that process works?

 

[brian]

Likely serialized is more an issue of identifying your weapon. For my OEM parts builds, I've elected to etch the serial number from the glock slide/barrel onto the frame. It isn't FFL compliant, but PMFs don't need to be at least in my state.

On the failure to feed - what generation magazines are you using? I've noticed that my Glock gen 2 G19 mags seemed to cause some fairly frequent FTFs (especially with hollow points). Using Gen4/Gen5 I haven't had many FTFs and when I have it has been with the Tula ammo which has period failures (fire, eject as well as feed) even in factory firearms.

 

[no4mk1t]

"Tracing" a firearm only works for as long as LE can connect the dots.

A co-worker that is a local Sheriff's Deputy told me that once the firearm is sold by the original purchaser, the chances of tracking where it went form there are slim to none after a few years.
Think about it. You buy a gun brand new. 2 years later you change jobs and move to another state. A year after that, you trade it in on another gun and your old gun in turn gets re-sold by the dealer. Let's say it then gets stolen from the new owner and turns up in a police investigation. The trace will lead them to the original owner, but unless this dept. devotes a lot of investigative manpower to tracking down the first owner and interviewing him, how are they going to know where it went? Most departments can't devote that kind of time to it. And the longer the gun is in the wild, the more steps it would take to track it through subsequent owners. All this is assuming each owner kept records (most don't) or could remember who they sold it to when asked years later.

Case in point:
I have a Tokarev that was bought new by a friend in the early 80's. He sold it to me in the mid 80's. A trace would get as far as his name. He is now deceased. That's as much as LE could learn about it. How is almost 40 year old data going to further the investigation?

And then there are the pre-war Hi-Power and Luger I have, and a wartime P-38. Plus a few others acquired over the years. All have factory serial numbers, but are not traceable. Even the ones that have been manufactured in the last 50 years, just like the Tok, they might get as far as the original owner, but the trail will go cold at that point.

If Mas was a member of this forum, I would be curious to know from his LE perspective how the above examples are any different than a P80, that as ATF recommends, you "apply a number to for identification in the event of loss or theft".
I legally own all of the above examples as well as the P80 with a number I personally applied. It would be curious to see how a prosecuting attorney unable to secure a conviction for the SD shooting could spin BS into Egyptian cotton and convince a jury of sinister intent by virtue of the fact you used a legally owned PMF.

Those old enough to remember that in the early days of high performance SD ammo, the media would condemn the use of hollow point ammo. "Dum-Dum" was the media buzz word of the day for any expanding ammo. Same when the media latched onto "Black Talon" ammo 30 years ago. But when Winchester stopped using the Lubaloy black coating and changed the name to "Ranger", the controversy died. Same ammo, just repackaged, but now the media doesn't have a scary sounding name and implied racial connotations to make for sensational reporting. But Black Talon is old news and so are bump stocks. So now they have guns to fill air time.

Local news reported that in our state capital that 70% of the guns recovered by LE from criminals are stolen. Even if P80's never existed, I find it hard to believe there would be a noticeable drop in crime.

 

[Michele]

CA allowed personal self applied serial numbers up to 2018, there after DOJ number was required however, that was stupid cuz the PF series firearms are not on the safe gun list so there ya go….no 80% was legit there after.

Here’s examples that was given