Spent holiday weekend in MI. Rented car and 2 out of 3 cars smelled like...

[Racer88]

I don't have a horse in this race, but would like to see a peer reviewed, university based study proving that no part of marijuana has a medicinal value.

I don't have a "horse" in the race, either. But I do take issue with the misuse of the words "science" and "medical," when they clearly do not apply... at least not YET.

But studies are not conducted to DISPROVE a theory. Aka "proving a negative." It's a logical fallacy known as "Burden of Proof Fallacy."

Scientific studies are not done to prove a negative. The burden of proof is upon those making the positive claim.

I did a quick google search, but other than "research is being done on marijuana in medicine", I didn't find anything concrete.

Yeah, they've been making that claim ("research is being done...") for quite a while now.

 

[Dave]

But studies are not conducted to DISPROVE a theory. Aka "proving a negative." It's a logical fallacy known as "Burden of Proof Fallacy."

Scientific studies are not done to prove a negative. The burden of proof is upon those making the positive claim.

Yeah get that, but you can prove something doesn't work. Water doesn't work as fuel in a gasoline combustion engine.

Your assertion was clear "It's not medical" and I thought maybe you had proof.

Some drugs using derivatives of marijuana are FDA approved for use as medicines. with dosage recommendation, with other drug/food interaction warnings and all. Were no studies done for that approval, or not the right ones?

Dave Znotear

 

[One Ping Only]

Citations, please. Again... must be peer reviewed. That's the starting point of legitimate scientific studies / reports.

Believe me, I know how to find it, and I know how to read it. It's how I found the studies on mRNA COVID vaccines dating back to 2012 and 2016 that contradicted the narrative of the C19 vaccine, which did NOT go through the same testing (because they know it would have failed).

I'm open to reading any citations or references you have, IF they are published in recognized peer-reviewed journals (with good Impact Factor).

I'll also repeat that if MJ is a legitimate therapeutic / prescribable drug, then it must be listed in the PDR along with ALL other drugs.... with information regarding therapeutic dosaging, max dose, drug interactions, indications and contraindications, warnings, side effects, etc.

So, what is the proper therapeutic dosage of MJ? What is the max dose?

When a doctor prescribes a drug, one of the most important things he or she must determine is if it will interact with other medications the patient is taking. REALLY important, because such interactions can have very bad effects, including death. SO.... what are the potential drug interactions with MJ? Where is this documented? With ALL other drugs, it's documented in the PDR (Physician's Drug Reference) or similar publication.

To be clear... I'm not opposed to sick people doing whatever it takes to feel better. I'm not debating whether it "works" in that regard. My only opposition is the labeling of "MEDICAL." It's not medical. Not yet. That's not how medical science works.

Sorry but the info is out there. Either you want to find it or ignore it. Your choice. It's not my job to supply the info you demand.

BTW- I am NOT a marijiuana user or proponent of the burning weed. Just speaking my mind about CBD, and that's what meany people fixate on- not the CBD itself, but where it comes from.

Ever eat a Cashew?
Ever eat tapioca?
Do you know what it comes from or its original state?

I could go on but I'll stop there.

 

[Dave]

Google Search

That's one FDA approved drug.

 

[Racer88]

Yeah get that, but you can prove something doesn't work. Water doesn't work as fuel in a gasoline combustion engine.

No need to prove water won't run an engine. The person making the claim that his engine runs on water is the one who has to prove it.

Your assertion was clear "It's not medical" and I thought maybe you had proof.

Again... "proving a negative" is neither logical nor scientific.

Those who claim it IS (positive) medical are the ones who have the burden of proof.

Sorry but the info is out there. Either you want to find it or ignore it. Your choice. It's not my job to supply the info you demand.

Again... the burden of proof is upon those making the claim. I'm not "demanding" anything. But when making a positive claim, the burden of proof is upon the one making the claim.

For example, I can bring up the citations for my claims that the C19 vaccine was NOT properly and thoroughly tested (like the previous COVID mRNA vaccine attempts in 2012 and 2016 were... and found to be problematic). I can reference scientific / published proof of that. If during a debate on that topic, my opponent asks me for the citations, I can and will provide them. The funny part is that when I do, they dismiss it out-of-hand and refuse to look at it. LOL! That's something I WON'T do, as you'll see below. I'll actually look at it and read it.

Google Search That's one FDA approved drug.

There ya go. Thank you. Actual proof. I learned something today!

I looked it up, and the proper information regarding dosage, warnings, etc. THAT'S what I'm talking about. And it's good to see that. Just like any other "medical" or therapeutic drug. That's progress! It's a start, eh? Finally. And it's PRESCRIBED by a doctor with that information available. But the shit (weed, gummies, brownies, oils, etc) you buy at a "dispensary" is NOT medical.

Here's the "PDR" info on Epidiolex that I found. Thankfully it's all available online now! Before the interwebz, you had to pore through a 3-inch thick book!

All actual medically prescribed therapeutic drugs have this very important information available. Even for OTC (over the counter) drugs... this information is available and used by doctors. Anything else, that doesn't have this vital information available (provided by studies), ain't "medical." Not yet!

 

[One Ping Only]

I completely understand the reticence of wanting to accept CBD as viable my friend, because of what it's derived from....and in doing so, somehow legitimizing a 'stoner industry'. And on that note I'm with you 100%.

But CBD is NOT a stoner industry. Did you see that the guy that just was appointed to Iraq just sold his hemp business for 240 million, btw?

AND That being said, even POTUS DJT is legitimizing CBD. That's pretty telling. Like I said, the info is out there.

Good heavens it's raining here hard!!!! The Oregon rains are back. And freezing weather is closeby. Time to winterize the back deck, and fix a hose bib that my wife's chickens ripped the insulation to shreds a few days ago while out "free ranging"and O have a bare span of about a foot to metal pipe exposed.....little freaking roasters.

I have room in the freezer for both of them. slurp.

Maybe between cloudbursts I can get this done today. Supposed to be 35 Sunday night which means about 32 here in this microclimate area we're in....

 

[Racer88]

I completely understand the reticence of wanting to accept CBD as viable my friend, because of what it's derived from....and in doing so, somehow legitimizing a 'stoner industry'. And on that note I'm with you 100%.

To be very very clear... My objections have NOTHING to do with the derivation of the substance. Opioids are all derived from.... well... you know. But opioid drugs have the relevant information and studies I've been harping on. They are studied and documented.

The misuse and abuse of FDA approved and studied opioids does not negate their therapeutic benefits for those in need. So, even with the potential for abuse and misuse... they are proven to be therapeutic and have guidelines for prescribers.

My objections are the use of the term "medical" without any basis other than to conveniently adopt the label to advance the narrative.

Once it's been PROVEN to be medical, as shown by @Dave, I'm perfectly willing to accept the label for THAT specific drug. Now, there's a lot more work to be done to EARN that label for all the other claimed "therapeutics."

My entire background / education is based on Science. To make "medical" or "scientific" claims, that person or group MUST do so via the recognized SCIENTIFIC PROCESS. They don't get to use anecdotal "it makes me feel better" as ANY kind of "proof."

 

[no4mk1t]

What was that movie they made us watch in driver's ed? "Blood on the Highways" or something like that? Bucket of "blood" on the windshield...

"Death on the Highway".
We had to watch it in DE class. In glorious B&W!

 

[Racer88]

"Death on the Highway".
We had to watch it in DE class. In glorious B&W!

Damn! In my DE class, we just learned how to drive! LOL!

 

[no4mk1t]

Damn! In my DE class, we just learned how to drive! LOL!

Then there was the time the teacher who taught Driver's Ed also taught the boys Sex Ed class. He mixed up the films and we had to watch it again in SE class.

 

[Racer88]

Then there was the time the teacher who taught Driver's Ed also taught the boys Sex Ed class. He mixed up the films and we had to watch it again in SE class.

So one class is how to drive a car.
The other class is how to drive the girls crazy?

 

[no4mk1t]

So one class is how to drive a car.
The other class is how to drive the girls crazy?

Coach was crazy. He mixed up more than just training films.
He once invited a guest speaker from Planned Parenthood to give a lesson on contraceptives. Woman (black) shows up with all the female types of contraception and a plastic model so she could demonstrate insertion etc.
She protests saying her presentation was meant for girls.
Coach tells her since she's here, she might as well give her presentation to us boys.
Coach sits in the back of the room reading the paper while she struggles with her embarrassment while showing a room full of white kids the plastic pussy.
Never had a practical use for any of the things we learned that day.

And after completing Driver's Ed, I take my certificate down to Allstate to claim the Driver's Ed discount...only to be told they discontinued that discount as they found no difference in the accident rate between those that took it and those that didn't.

 

[One Ping Only]

They don't get to use anecdotal "it makes me feel better" as ANY kind of "proof."

So then on these scientific studies where they monitor effects on patients should have likewise meaning to you.

For me, either something will work, or it won't. I've no vested interest. Welp, it does work. Wonderfully so, with zero intoxication or any other effects. My wife takes it for back pain when needed after a vigorous gym workout. Mine is a shoulder injury that gets inflamed if I provoke it...and having joined a gym recently, oh my- other muscles are asserting their relevance.

CBD works incredibly well. And zero big Pharma meds to manage it. I'm grateful/

But I guess I'm lying because you see no scientific proof. lol. Science has a lot to learn.

 

[One Ping Only]

Coach was crazy. He mixed up more than just training films.
He once invited a guest speaker from Planned Parenthood to give a lesson on contraceptives. Woman (black) shows up with all the female types of contraception and a plastic model so she could demonstrate insertion etc.
She protests saying her presentation was meant for girls.
Coach tells her since she's here, she might as well give her presentation to us boys.
Coach sits in the back of the room reading the paper while she struggles with her embarrassment while showing a room full of white kids the plastic pussy.
Never had a practical use for any of the things we learned that day.

And after completing Driver's Ed, I take my certificate down to Allstate to claim the Driver's Ed discount...only to be told they discontinued that discount as they found no difference in the accident rate between those that took it and those that didn't.

Yet another cottage industry created to grease palms that accomplished nothing else.

 

[Racer88]

CBD works incredibly well. And zero big Pharma meds to manage it. I'm grateful/

I hear ya. And for anyone suffering, any relief is a great thing.

But I guess I'm lying because you see no scientific proof. lol. Science has a lot to learn.

I think you're grossly misunderstanding me. I've never suggested anyone is lying about their personal experience. Never even implied it.

I'm speaking as a scientist when someone claims something UNscientific... is.... "scientific" or "medical." That's ALL I'm saying. I'm referring to a strict definition of "medical" or "scientific." If we don't adhere to a strict definition of Science, then nothing is truly scientific. Science losing meaning, if we don't adhere to scientific principles.

I would never seek to deny any kind of relief anyone finds effective. And I would never suggest they were "lying."

I'm not suggesting that something has to be scientifically proven to render it effective or acceptable. If it works, it works, eh? Why would anyone deny such relief? I've never suggested that even remotely. I'm truly glad your wife finds such relief. Seeing a loved one suffering is very very tough. Ask me how I know. And if such relief can be obtained (assuming safely) without relying on the medical or pharmaceutical establishment... I'm all for that. I have close to ZERO faith left in the Pharma industry after the covid "vaccine" debacle.

I just object to the loose adaptation of the word "medical" or "science." I'm kinda like a photographer that way. I admit to being an insufferable pedant!

 

[One Ping Only]

Words in text (with zero inflection, expression or tone) are a minefield at times. 10-4 Racer. Peace be with you, brudda.

 

[Racer88]

Words in text (with zero inflection, expression or tone) are a minefield at times. 10-4 Racer. Peace be with you, brudda.

Back at ya! And best wishes for your wife!

 

[no4mk1t]

CBD works incredibly well.

Guy at the gun show a few months back had a table selling CBD creme. There was a demo jar and I dabbed some on my thumb joint that has been acting up. Guy said give it 20 minutes to tell a difference.
After the 20 minutes I could tell a difference. Pain wasn't completely gone, but no more twinging when I moved it "that way".
If a jar of it wasn't so expensive, I would have bought one. But when you need enough to marinate in, I could see the math $ wasn't going to math.

 

[One Ping Only]

Back at ya! And best wishes for your wife!

She’s really jazzed about her new SIG! Thanks!

 

[One Ping Only]

Guy at the gun show a few months back had a table selling CBD creme. There was a demo jar and I dabbed some on my thumb joint that has been acting up. Guy said give it 20 minutes to tell a difference.
After the 20 minutes I could tell a difference. Pain wasn't completely gone, but no more twinging when I moved it "that way".
If a jar of it wasn't so expensive, I would have bought one. But when you need enough to marinate in, I could see the math $ wasn't going to math.

I understand. We usually use the tincture form, a few drops under the tongue and hold it 30 seconds before swallowing it down. Locally applied works well too on different medium as you describe. . We also have a stick variant like a roll on. Back when my MIL was alive, she was having hip pains where she had hip surgery a few years prior. My wife applied some of that roll-on directly to the area, and in 30 minutes the pain went away. Gone.

My wife uses it on her knee on occasion when needed.. Works so well. It really IS a blessing. Hoping you can find the means to acquire what you need. You may want to try the tincture variant. You can get it in different strength levels and/or modulate your intake accordingly, literally a few drops under the tongue to keep pain at bay, or a few more in a one shot dosage, As needed per incident of pain. That latter is how we use it. If I upset my shoulder, I’ll take about 6-8 drops… there’s absolutely NO sensation except for the removal of discomfort. Wonderful.

Now back to ye olde perch….cheers, no4mk1t!