That Many...

[no4mk1t]

I cant recall when the 44 mag became 'popular'. Other than Harry Callahan's Model 29 from the 1971 film. I have one of those and it's among my most cherished revolvers. I seldom shoot it but do wipe it down with a diaper and some oil now and then.

That's when it went from niche to S&W couldn't make them fast enough. Model 29's stayed in demand as long as Clint kept making DH flicks...then he did the same thing with the Auto Mag in Sudden Impact.

 

[clm2112]

I'm sure it will have the same effect on crime that the Sullivan Law has.

Yup... compliance is right around zero. It is just going to be used to stack additional charges onto a perp that can be exchanged during the plea bargain. I doubt most PA residents even know it was passed last session of the house and are completely oblivious to the change in rules for long gun sales.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

That's when it went from niche to S&W couldn't make them fast enough. Model 29's stayed in demand as long as Clint kept making DH flicks...then he did the same thing with the Auto Mag in Sudden Impact.

I used the alias Otto Magg on a forum I abandoned around 3 years ago. .

I think the Terminator also had an Auto Mag? I know somebody bought the rights and started making them again. Not in the original 44 though. Not quite the same as Harry's.

 

[bkbrno]

So, police detectives knew the killer used a 44 caliber revolver. It was a normal part of the investigation to go through the registration files and pay a visit to everyone who had registered a 44 caliber revolver. It doesn't say where Berkowitz got his Bulldog, but he never registered it in NYC.

Except we lived 4 states away from New York. The ATF searched the entire east coast and knew exactly what they were looking for.

To clarify, the Charter Arms Bulldog a .44 Special not Mag. Forensic science was at a point where they could measure the dimensions of the lands and groves on a bullet and determine the general manufacturer of the gun the round came from. That's how they knew to search for a Bulldog.

I had the pleasure of meeting a forensic scientist that did a lot of early work on this. It might surprise you to know that manufacturers catalog a lot of specifications for law enforcement. Forensic scientist today can look at a spent shell casing and tell you what brand firearm it was fired from. Just as a dog can detect a huge amount of information by sniffing another dogs butt, crime labs can detect details you never knew existed. They know what to look for.

 

[no4mk1t]

Except we lived 4 states away from New York. The ATF searched the entire east coast and knew exactly what they were looking for.

Then they did it old school and got the shipping records from Charter and sifted out the New England deliveries.

 

[no4mk1t]

I used the alias Otto Magg on a forum I abandoned around 3 years ago. .

I think the Terminator also had an Auto Mag? I know somebody bought the rights and started making them again. Not in the original 44 though. Not quite the same as Harry's.

The tooling was auctioned by Harry Sanford's estate. Someone from Loris, SC bought it and updated the drawings and made some improvements. Only made them for a couple of years. I understand they are now out of business.

 

[bkbrno]

Then they did it old school and got the shipping records from Charter and sifted out the New England deliveries.

Lived in, bought in, and transferred far away from New York, several states away. You would think that it would take years to sift through records to narrow things down. It didn't take that long to narrow down to who bought a Charter Arms Bulldog given the manual methods that they should have had access to at the time. Not to mention the fact that records are supposed to be kept only by the FFL. Almost as if they had all the records at their finger tips. The gun left Bridgeport after it was made and never returned to New England.

 

[no4mk1t]

Lived in, bought in, and transferred far away from New York, several states away. You would think that it would take years to sift through records to narrow things down. It didn't take that long to narrow down to who bought a Charter Arms Bulldog given the manual methods that they should have had access to at the time. Not to mention the fact that records are supposed to be kept only by the FFL. Almost as if they had all the records at their finger tips. The gun left Bridgeport after it was made and never returned to New England.

They would have had to work it from the manufacturer's records.
The gun was only in production a few years, so there couldn't have been a large number of them out there. Factor in eliminating exported guns, and guns shipped to distant states, and the number to look for becomes more manageable. ATF gets a list from Charter saying this many went to NY, this many went to NJ, this many went to PA, etc. Send a memo to the ATF field office in each state and send the G-men out in search of...
This was a high-profile case that made national news. I'm sure they had an army of agents working the case.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

They would have had to work it from the manufacturer's records.
The gun was only in production a few years, so there couldn't have been a large number of them out there. Factor in eliminating exported guns, and guns shipped to distant states, and the number to look for becomes more manageable. ATF gets a list from Charter saying this many went to NY, this many went to NJ, this many went to PA, etc. Send a memo to the ATF field office in each state and send the G-men out in search of...
This was a high-profile case that made national news. I'm sure they had an army of agents working the case.

Most firearms go to distributors, who in turn sell them to dealers. Gun manufacturers rarely transact business with dealers. It may have been different in the early-mid 70s.

A lot of FFLs today only stock a limited number of guns. When you order they have the distributor ship the gun to them. A common scenario is you ask if they have the Poofter 5000 in FDE vs black. They tell you they can get it in two days.

 

[bkbrno]

This was 1977ish. Everything went through the USPS or phone. I don't think FAX machines were common then.

My point is that, information that was not supposed to be available was easily available.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

I'm pretty sure the Bulldog 44 SPL Berkowitz used was purchased by a friend in another state. I don't think they could have traced it to him. I presume it was the forensic evidence they gathered from the rounds taken from his victims bodies that suggested a Charter Bulldog was the weapon used. The lands and grooves from the rifling tell a story. Maybe not 100% certain who made the gun but it narrows down the possibilities. 44 SPL guns were probably not abundant in the late 70's. But that was before my time so I cant say for sure.

I do recall that when they looked in his car, he had a Thompson 45 cal with a 30 round mag in the back seat. He did purchase that legally in NYC. He had a license to buy firearms. The Bulldog was on the front seat. It was the parking ticket that gave him away. An eye witness saw a man fitting his description remove a ticket from his windshield close the time and location of a shooting.

The Berkowitz case was one of the subjects in a couple of courses I took on criminal profiling, forensic investigations. Bundy too. That was years ago so I may not be remembering everything. If I had it to do all over again, I'd have gotten degrees in forensic psychology, criminology and been a profiler. It's a fascinating subject to me.

 

[Bobster]

The Berkowitz case was one of the subjects in a couple of courses I took on criminal profiling, forensic investigations. Bundy too. That was years ago so I may not be remembering everything. If I had it to do all over again, I'd have gotten degrees in forensic psychology, criminology and been a profiler. It's a fascinating subject to me.

I took Criminalistics 101 as an ELECTIVE in community college to finish my A.A. It was that or Basket Weaving 101 or some other useless course as I needed 3 credits to get the piece of paper. I was in the middle of my B.S. Ed. at the time so it was a diversion. I was the only non-police-recruit in the class. Very easy A, most of the others were struggling to get a passing grade for this required class (for them). The instructor was a cop in a town I had lived in and we knew many of the same people--he gave me a "get out of jail FREE" card because he like the random civilian in his class.

One of the highlights of the course was when the Providence Fire Marshall gave a presentation on how to create incendiary devices and how to determine if they had been used for arson. I took copious notes that evening...

 

[Bongo Lewi]

There's a certain percentage of us who have criminal tendencies. Most are just petty cheaters. Liars who try to manipulate and those who arent very bright or lack impulse control. A nuisance to society but not really dangerous.

Also 1 out of 24 is a sociopath. Not necessarily violent or criminal. Just a person with no empathy and totally self-absorbed. No genuine care whatsoever for other people. Your typical corporate executive, and often middle managers. Or ex wives.

The bad guys and gals who are brilliant are the ones that fascinate me the most. The non violent types. Like international jewel or art thieves and those guys that tunneled into a French bank vault thru the sewer systems and over a weekend stole the cash and everything in the safe deposit boxes undetected. Abignale... of Catch me if you can fame. That kid - a teenager - had a remarkably high IQ.

Psychopaths... unpredictable, dangerous and often very clever. These people are scary. Killers and torturers. Their friends, neighbors and co-workers often have no clue of the other life they lead. Like BTK and many others. Basically, the predators among us.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

It bears mentioning....

The people we see on TV protesting and creating chaos? Here's the profile:

Physically unattractive.
Unpopular. Feels disenfranchised, excluded.
Tends to suffer from chronic depression, has a persistent sense of hopelessness
Socially inept. Doesn't fit in.
Resentful of authority and institutions. Also attractive or successful people
Struggles with maintaining personal relationships and with co-workers
Seeks attention thru extreme behaviors and contrarianism
Drawn to causes and cults to satisfy a need to belong
Were shy or withdrawn as children

 

[bkbrno]

It bears mentioning....

The people we see on TV protesting and creating chaos? Here's the profile:

Physically unattractive.
Unpopular. Feels disenfranchised, excluded.
Tends to suffer from chronic depression, has a persistent sense of hopelessness
Socially inept. Doesn't fit in.
Resentful of authority and institutions. Also attractive or successful people
Struggles with maintaining personal relationships and with co-workers
Seeks attention thru extreme behaviors and contrarianism
Drawn to causes and cults to satisfy a need to belong
Were shy or withdrawn as children

Somebody should start a collective commune for these unfortunate and disconnected. Guyana would be a nice location. Grape Kool-aid is especially refreshing in the tropics.

 

[Bobster]

Somebody should start a collective commune for these unfortunate and disconnected. Guyana would be a nice location. Grape Kool-aid is especially refreshing in the tropics.

A good time to re-post this high-quality Pshop I did back in 2020ish.

 

[James Moore]

Deleted