Article Link! The Great American EV Fire Sale Is About to Begin

[Bongo Lewi]

All that being said, I DO have an battery powered push mower for the small yard that is the dogs area and I would get an battery powered riding mower if they were not so expensive as it would be nice to 1) not have to wear ear protection and 2) be nice to not worry about disturbing the neighbors if I mow early or late.

My string trimmer is battery powered as are most of my power tools, but it's a real pain when I need to charge batteries in the middle of doing something.

All my tools including yard tools are battery. DeWalt. The string trimmer, edger, hedge trimmer and chainsaw are 60 volt. The smaller tools are 20 volt. You can use the 60 volt batteries on most of the small tools but they are heavier. I actually prefer Milwaukee but I collected so many DeWalt over the years that I had a ton invested in batteries. My mower is a Deere. I am always running out of gas. Pisses me off

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Not trying to be a wet blanket here.
The Cape Hatteras Light Station was moved to protect it from "the threat of shoreline erosion, a natural process"

Moving the Cape Hatteras Lighthouse - Cape Hatteras National Seashore (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

IE, "over a century of tides washing over the island, moving sand from oceanside to soundside, there was just 120 feet separating the lighthouse from the ocean."

Read more at Coastal Review, coastalreview.org.

The Norfolk Sea Wall is to protect from storms, not rising oceans

Norfolk cleared to start construction on first phase of floodwall

The first piece of the wall, which includes the shoreline by Harbor Park, will range in height from about 6 1/2 feet to about 16 1/2 feet.

www.whro.org

Like you said any changes in ocean levels are natural and cyclic. Weather in naturally cyclic.
In the mid 1980's we were riding motorcycles in Montana all winter as there was no snow and it was close to spring temperatures.
As the 80's were coming to a close we had 40 below weather for 2 weeks in a row.

In the mid 2000's we were again in a warm spell which swung to cold at the end of the decade.

Yep. People get all twisted up in theories, predictions, gloom and doom. Our lifetimes are the blink of an eye. Weather is unpredictable.

Same crazy shit about food. Eggs bad, eggs good. Red meat good, red meat bad. Fat free is good. Fat free is bad. Sugar substitutes good, sugar substitutes bad.

The secret to peace of mind is not giving a shit. Go with the flow. And be prepared for what can reasonably happen. Change is life’s only true constant.

 

[Racer88]

Change is life’s only true constant.

He knows changes aren't permanent
But change is

"Tom Sawyer" by Rush

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Not trying to be a wet blanket here.
The Cape Hatteras Light Station was moved to protect it from "the threat of shoreline erosion, a natural process"

Moving the Cape Hatteras Lighthouse - Cape Hatteras National Seashore (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

IE, "over a century of tides washing over the island, moving sand from oceanside to soundside, there was just 120 feet separating the lighthouse from the ocean."

Read more at Coastal Review, coastalreview.org.

The Norfolk Sea Wall is to protect from storms, not rising oceans

Norfolk cleared to start construction on first phase of floodwall

The first piece of the wall, which includes the shoreline by Harbor Park, will range in height from about 6 1/2 feet to about 16 1/2 feet.

www.whro.org

Like you said any changes in ocean levels are natural and cyclic. Weather in naturally cyclic.
In the mid 1980's we were riding motorcycles in Montana all winter as there was no snow and it was close to spring temperatures.
As the 80's were coming to a close we had 40 below weather for 2 weeks in a row.

In the mid 2000's we were again in a warm spell which swung to cold at the end of the decade.

Tides have been increasing during that period. Tides, floods, and surges are interrelated.

When you build a something a century ago at one foot above sea level. It is now at four inches above sea level. Thus over wash, natural shifting of sand, storms, and tides all factor in.

Storms increase in frequency and strength due to ocean water temperature. Higher temps, more intense storms, more surge, more storms. More damage. More erosion.

Elevated ocean water temperature is something no one can deny. They lie about what can be done to stop it.

Sea level rise is not fake news either. I don’t give a shit what anyone thinks is or is not causing it.

At the poles it’s hard to determine what’s going on. South rapidly melting, then it halts. The north is continuing to warm and melt.

Glaciers are melting everywhere. An idiot knows this just by looking at them . Where do the geniuses think that water is going?

Anybody that says sea level is not rising has their head up their ass. And probably lives nowhere near a beach.

Again, what’s causing this is subject to debate. Man made problem or natural cycle? The reality is what difference does it make? It’s happening.

If anybody believes that thousands of tide gauges are being tampered with by dark forces with bad intent I suggest they see a shrink!

 

[Bongo Lewi]

I'd bet money that anybody who thinks this is bullshit could fit what they know about oceans on the head of a pin. I grew up and lived most of my adult life on or near the coast. Both coasts. My family has owned beach and wetlands property in coastal North Carolina for 100 years. Also Rhode Island. I've climbed glaciers, including the summit to Mt Rainer and the White River glacier on Mt., Hood. I hunted in Alaska in and around glaciers. Skiing in Blackcomb/Whistler and Horstman in BC. Glaciers. I have seen and lived this for almost 60 years. So those who live in land locked states and haven't done any of that, please shut your yap and try listening.

I can also do the math, I have a masters degree in engineering. Think I have been misled or dont understand how to interpret data? You are mistaken.

I dont listen to climate change idiots like Al Gore, AOC, and their kind either. But if you deny the actual science you are as stupid as they are.

 

[Racer88]

I'd bet money that anybody who thinks this is bullshit could fit what they know about oceans on the head of a pin. I grew up and lived most of my adult life on or near the coast. Both coasts. My family has owned beach and wetlands property in coastal North Carolina for 100 years. Also Rhode Island. I've climbed glaciers, including the summit to Mt Rainer and the White River glacier on Mt., Hood. I hunted in Alaska in and around glaciers. Skiing in Blackcomb/Whistler and Horstman in BC. Glaciers. I have seen and lived this for almost 60 years. So those who live in land locked states and haven't done any of that, please shut your yap and try listening.

I can also do the math, I have a masters degree in engineering. Think I have been misled or dont understand how to interpret data? You are mistaken.

I dont listen to climate change idiots like Al Gore, AOC, and their kind either. But if you deny the actual science you are as stupid as they are.

There is zero proof that climate change is anthropogenic. And from a Physics standpoint, it's literally impossible. Since we're bragging... I aced college Physics (and a "few" other Science subjects).

Climate changes. Lots of forces at work, not the least of which is the Sun (which naturally varies in its output). The energy / influence of humans, which are but a speck on this planet and this solar system.... is infinitesimally smaller than all the significant energy systems influencing climate change. There's a reason it's called the "SOLAR SYSTEM," eh? LOL! It's not the "Human System."

So, it is only logical that if humans cannot CAUSE climate change, we surely cannot stop it. Any and all efforts by the gov't, activists, and NGOs claiming to prevent the demise of the planet (see the Law of Entropy) are doing nothing more than grabbing money, resources, and CONTROL for themselves. PERIOD. The fools are those who believe their intent is noble and just.

 

[NavyVette]

All my tools including yard tools are battery. DeWalt. The string trimmer, edger, hedge trimmer and chainsaw are 60 volt. The smaller tools are 20 volt. You can use the 60 volt batteries on most of the small tools but they are heavier. I actually prefer Milwaukee but I collected so many DeWalt over the years that I had a ton invested in batteries. My mower is a Deere. I am always running out of gas. Pisses me off

That's another reason I'd love an electric zero turn. HOWEVER, I do know that it would not last long enough for my full lawn, so I'd have to do the front and part of the back and then charge it unless I spend stupid money for one with more power

 

[Pern]

The crazies used to call it “man made catastrophic global warming” now the term is “climate change”.
If man is to blame we are doomed, but it’s horseshit.
The proof that it’s bullshit is the disingenuous people who perpetuate this insanity and their motives……. ITS MONEY AND POWER. The foolish sheep follow them over the cliff like they believe socialism is the key to a global utopia.

Disingenuous leaders and followers

 

[Pern]

That's another reason I'd love an electric zero turn. HOWEVER, I do know that it would not last long enough for my full lawn, so I'd have to do the front and part of the back and then charge it unless I spend stupid money for one with more power

Using fossil fuels to charge your batteries.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

That's another reason I'd love an electric zero turn. HOWEVER, I do know that it would not last long enough for my full lawn, so I'd have to do the front and part of the back and then charge it unless I spend stupid money for one with more power

I wish I had bought a zero turn. I went with the conventional tractor style. Regrets.

Craftsman sells a 56V zero turn. It costs 4 grand. They claim it can cut 3.5 acres on one charge. Toro has one too, but it's 6 grand! I spent 3k on the Deere, so a new mower isnt in the cards any time soon.

Every @#$%^ time I have to cut the grass I realize I don't have enough gas on hand to finish it. The only piece of equipment I have that burns gasoline is my Jeeps. Everything else is battery or propane. So I never get around to filling up the gas cans for the Deere.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Using fossil fuels to charge your batteries.

Fossil fuels are going to be burned no matter what needs to be charged. We have been over this.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

There is zero proof that climate change is anthropogenic. And from a Physics standpoint, it's literally impossible. Since we're bragging... I aced college Physics (and a "few" other Science subjects).

Climate changes. Lots of forces at work, not the least of which is the Sun (which naturally varies in its output). The energy / influence of humans, which are but a speck on this planet and this solar system.... is infinitesimally smaller than all the significant energy systems influencing climate change. There's a reason it's called the "SOLAR SYSTEM," eh? LOL! It's not the "Human System."

So, it is only logical that if humans cannot CAUSE climate change, we surely cannot stop it. Any and all efforts by the gov't, activists, and NGOs claiming to prevent the demise of the planet (see the Law of Entropy) are doing nothing more than grabbing money, resources, and CONTROL for themselves. PERIOD. The fools are those who believe their intent is noble and just.

I never suggested humans were causing it. Who gives a shit what's causing it. I have already said that like five times. No matter what's causing change, it's unstoppable. That's the lie - like buying an EV will change the world. On the other hand, to deny change is flat out fucking stupid. Low IQ. The temperature and sea level data doesn't lie.

So when you get down to the brass tacks, there are only a few things that mankind can do.

1. Nothing. It is a short term trend controlled by nature, not emissions. Ride it out. Move away from areas threatened.
2. Build flood protection into coastal cities and other flood prone areas if the warming trend persists and worsens. Very costly. But so is losing cities and private property to long term flooding that could last hundreds of years. That would be very damaging to the economy. Not just the US.

Nobody can change the temperature of the Earth. However, it's probably a good idea to stop clear cutting forests that naturally keep the gasses in the atmosphere in balance. Likewise, the less man made garbage we pump into the air and oceans, the better off we will be. It's only logical. There is no upside to recklessly fucking with the balance of nature. No reasonable person can argue against that.

I'll say it again. the real problem is the stupidity of the human race. We have nitwits like Al Gore and Greta who really dont know anything. They are celebrities making money by way of their empty headed opinions - that many people seem to adore. Then we have those who are not famous that hate Greta, Al Gore and their kind so much that they deny anything that suggests climate change - even when it's true. Because they are dumb fucks too.

My attraction to Greta is her buttery hair and adorable pumpkin-shaped head. Not her politics.

As I have said, I don't give a rip who drowns or dies of starvation as a result of their cocksure denial of science they don't understand. I purposely built away from the coast and in hills that have no exposure to flooding. I am reasonably independent of the grid. Roughly 60% of my electric power is solar and I plan to increase that. I'm not a pepper but having spent time in places like North Africa that have close to zero infrastructure or were immersed in endless civil wars, I know that if you depend on the grid or gasoline or propane exclusively - and the shit hits the fan - the average schlub won't be able to get more when it runs out. I can charge an EV on my own. Will that matter? Maybe.

But I wish those poor, soon to be dead denier souls a blissfull trip to the hereafter should the worst happen.

 

[Racer88]

I never suggested humans were causing it. Who gives a shit what's causing it. I have already said that like five times. No matter what's causing change, it's unstoppable. That's the lie - like buying an EV will change the world. On the other hand, to deny change is flat out fucking stupid. Low IQ. The temperature and sea level data doesn't lie.

Not you... Them. Surely you cannot deny that THEY (the powerful and influential) ARE in fact claiming that WE are causing climate change. It's become a religion to them.

And then they engage in the Straw Man by substituting a false argument on our behalf. If we deny.... nay... REFUTE the notion that climate change is anthropogenic, then we must be "climate change deniers."

No. The fact that climate changes is rather self-evident. I don't think anyone is disagreeing about that isolated fact. WE are saying that climate changes regardless of human activity. In other words, it's not our fault, and NOTHING we do (as humans) will influence it. Again... back to the 1st and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics.

The fact that tyrants and their sycophants would seek to CONTROL the rest of us by leveraging the scary (yet utterly false) argument that if we don't change our ways and conform to THEIR way (which is a perpetually moving goal post)... we're all gonna die. Or our grandchildren will die. This is a power move. It's about control and NOTHING more.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Not you... Them. Surely you cannot deny that THEY (the powerful and influential) ARE in fact claiming that WE are causing climate change. It's become a religion to them.

And then they engage in the Straw Man by substituting a false argument on our behalf. If we deny.... nay... REFUTE the notion that climate change is anthropogenic, then we must be "climate change deniers."

No. The fact that climate changes is rather self-evident. I don't think anyone is disagreeing about that isolated fact. WE are saying that climate changes regardless of human activity. In other words, it's not our fault, and NOTHING we do (as humans) will influence it. Again... back to the 1st and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics.

The fact that tyrants and their sycophants would seek to CONTROL the rest of us by leveraging the scary (yet utterly false) argument that if we don't change our ways and conform to THEIR way (which is a perpetually moving goal post)... we're all gonna die. Or our grandchildren will die. This is a power move. It's about control and NOTHING more.

There's a good possibility we (or those after us) are going to die anyway. So I'd agree with you on ignoring the pundits - pro or con -and simply plan accordingly.

If you live in a low lying area on the coast, based on current data, you are at risk if you live another 20-30 years or more. Maybe things will change and the threat decreases. Maybe not. Best to have a plan. It's not dissimilar to self-defense. If you think nothing can possibly go wrong, why carry? The odds of needing to carry to protect yourself from an assault of any kind is quite high. It usually never happens. But it can. So you carry as a sort of insurance policy for the unpredictable. Makes perfect sense.

Yet real data, not opinions, suggest that storms will worsen, temperatures increase, water will rise, and millions of people and property in certain areas face a reasonable, plausible threat. Yet some bet it isn't going to happen. Because Greta says it will. Go figure. Like a broken clock, a pumpkin head beauty who combs her hair with buttered toast can be right twice a day.

 

[Bobster]

Yea but… It orbits the Earth at 17000 mph. Try that with a ‘78 Trans Am.

Technically, the Roadster is orbiting the Sun. It will be decades before it is anywhere near the earth again and we're talking the closest will be millions of miles.

It's all about giving the taxpayers money to cronies of the politicians, and for other counties taking the US down a notch or two.

...sitting in their ocean front property which have not lost 1/100th of an inch of beach in 200 years

It is about control of minds, control of money and control of power.

Shorelines are ever evolving. Hurricanes and other storms exacerbate the issue. Anyone building on the coast should have a 1000 year plan...

My string trimmer is battery powered as are most of my power tools, but it's a real pain when I need to charge batteries in the middle of doing something.

I do like my battery powered tools and yard tools.

I was thinking of battery-power as I was repairing the gas-power equipment I needed to make the yard look pretty this week. Replace some fuel lines and primer bulbs, easy enough. Maybe 5-10min per tool and a sense of accomplishment when done. But then working up a sweat trying to get them started with about a 50% success rate.

Long term, longer than any of us will be around, beach communities that are not near big cities will be abandoned. It's not worth the cost of protecting them.

1000yr plan--see above...

Like you said any changes in ocean levels are natural and cyclic. Weather in naturally cyclic.

Climate warming/cooling is cyclical. And we are one volcanic eruption away from a "nuclear winter" so who the F knows what will happen tomorrow...

That's another reason I'd love an electric zero turn. HOWEVER, I do know that it would not last long enough for my full lawn...

THIS! ^^^^

The crazies used to call it “man made catastrophic global warming” now the term is “climate change”.

Yup, see above...

Fossil fuels are going to be burned no matter what needs to be charged. We have been over this.

Yup, FF used in lubricants, cosmetics, plastics, foods, medicine, etc. etc.

 

[NavyVette]

Using fossil fuels to charge your batteries.

The main reason I would like the electric is for noise reduction as I previously mentioned
Well, actually, that's the only reason

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Yup, FF used in lubricants, cosmetics, plastics, foods, medicine, etc. etc.

Yep. And for the umpteenth time, base load power plants, which are mostly coal, don't ramp up and down based on demand. Electric utilities sell power that exceeds demand to neighboring utilities. Because they dont store electrons. There's no gas pedal in a power plant. The turbine/generator spins at the same speed all day, all night.

I want to bitch slap people who continue to repeat that charging EVs put an extraordinary load on the grid. It's the same as a fucking air conditioner. And there is no power shortage. Generating capacity has kept up with demand.

There are a few pilot projects now where excess generation is applied to huge arrays of batteries at night when demand is lower. The next day, the batteries help supply the demand during peak load times. This will likely become more common. As will small nukes.

 

[Pern]

Yep. And for the umpteenth time, base load power plants, which are mostly coal, don't ramp up and down based on demand. Electric utilities sell power that exceeds demand to neighboring utilities. Because they dont store electrons. There's no gas pedal in a power plant. The turbine/generator spins at the same speed all day, all night.

I want to bitch slap people who continue to repeat that charging EVs put an extraordinary load on the grid. It's the same as a fucking air conditioner. And there is no power shortage. Generating capacity has kept up with demand.

There are a few pilot projects now where excess generation is applied to huge arrays of batteries at night when demand is lower. The next day, the batteries help supply the demand during peak load times. This will likely become more common. As will small nukes.

I’m sure most base load plants do still operate normally but, I do know for a fact that one in Kansas is being used with wind power and are forced to ramp up and down with the wind which makes this giant base load coal plant inefficient as hell and even more costly to operate.


So if everyone who drives a fossil fuel car today scraped it and bought an EV there would be no more load on the electric grid?

 

[Bongo Lewi]

I’m sure most base load plants do still operate normally but, I do know for a fact that one in Kansas is being used with wind power and are forced to ramp up and down with the wind which makes this giant base load coal plant inefficient as hell and even more costly to operate.


So if everyone who drives a fossil fuel car today scraped it and bought an EV there would be no more load on the electric grid?

What do you think the energy consumption is to transport gasoline and dispense it? Any idea? My guess is no. It's a lot.

The cost of distributing power is balanced across the other uses for electricity in a residence. So providing he power to the consumer for an EV costs nothing extra to deliver.

To answer your scenario directly... suggesting everybody abandons ICE vehicles for EVs...the entire consumer gasoline supply chain disappears. Imagine how much energy that alone consumes on a daily basis 24/7. Putting it in simple terms, if all 200,000 gas stations in the US shut down tomorrow, that would free up enough load to charge an EV in millions of driveways, every night. And have a surplus.

Don't believe that? Here are some facts: A typical gas station/convenience store in the U.S. uses an average of 52.5 kilo-watt-hours (kWh) of electricity per square foot - and also 38.2 cubic feet of natural gas per square foot per year. But we arent talking about natural gas. Some gas stations are huge ... several thousands of square feet, some small. But adding it up - even if you average it at 3000 square ft, it's a lot.

If you really want to get in the weeds, imagine what it costs in terms or energy to produce the 30,000 parts in a typical ICE vehicle. An EV has 30% fewer parts than that. Assuming the manufacturing of the parts is somewhat equal energy-wise, it's 30% less to make the parts for the vehicle.

Do you object to building new homes? Worry about if there will be enough power for a new apartment building or single family home in your town? If your neighbors add an air conditioner to their bedroom window do you worry that they might be causing a problem? Is a new strip mall near town going to cause brownouts? A new 7-11 or Royal Farm Store with six slushy machines, wall to wall refrigerators and freezers with 20 gas pumps and enough lighting for a small city worry you? Of course not. Yet the guy across the street buys a Tesla and people think he's a power glutton.

There is no way a base load coal plant starts and stops based on wind. Send me something written about what they are doing. It takes hours to fire up a coal plant. Even a small one. How do I know that? I've been in the control room a 1000 times when that was going on.

 

[Racer88]

I want to bitch slap people who continue to repeat that charging EVs put an extraordinary load on the grid. It's the same as a fucking air conditioner. And there is no power shortage. Generating capacity has kept up with demand.

It is and has been well-known and published that California, in particular, has a history of "rotating" outages due to demand exceeding their ability to provide power.

The power produced from utility companies is not unlimited. And demand in excess of their production does apparently happen, which leads to planned rotating outages and rationing of power.

Rotating Outages | PG&E

Rotating outages are preventable. Learn about tips to conserve energy.

www.pge.com