Toyota has given up on EVs. Not.

Just becausse I like Chinese food doesn't mean I want to live like Chinamen under the PRC, no more than having an affinity for certain European cars makes me want to be like Europeans.

And pissing away money isn't just an American Govt art form. We have the EU as a shining example of that and how they have affected their European nations- Germany recently told them all "we aren't footing the bill for the rest of you anymore, we can't afford it", Spain's economic woes, etc. What a cluster.

Greed knows no borders.
 
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One Ping Only said:
BC I like Chinese food doesn't mean I want to live like Chinamen, no more than having an affinity for certain European cars makes me want to be like Europeans.

And pissing away money isn't just an American Govt art form. We have the EU as a shining example of that and how they have affected their European nations- Germany recently told them all "we aren't footing the bill for the rest of you anymore, we can't afford it", Spain's economic woes, etc. What a cluster.

Greed knows no borders.
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Cultural differences, politics have little to do with the changing consumer landscape and how people view cars. People in Europe are just as dickish about their cars as Americans. This is why American cars have never sold well in Europe. They don't want them.

The reason Evs are selling well in Europe is 1. The government made it easy for people to make the decision and built supporting infrastructure. 2. Range is not a huge issue. When they travel across borders it's by train or air. Very few people make marathon road trips across Europe. 3. Electric power is cheap. 4. Gasoline and Diesel is crazy expensive.

The passenger train system is awesome. The short hop airlines are cattle cars. Air travelers tend to be business people. There's no Karens creating a scene objecting to some dude's MAGA hat. It's orderly and polite.

The last time I was in Germany I rented a car and drove from Munich to Vienna. Train and plane was quicker but I wanted to drive a fast car on the Autobahn. It's about a 3-4 hour drive. There were hardly any cars on the way there and the return trip a couple of days later. Mostly trucks.

In recent years. Wealthy English were buying what they consider massive American SUVs as a status symbol. Huge import duties on them but being rich they didnt care. Brits started raining Hell about these "offensively huge American gas guzzling vehicles" and the London authorities eventually banned them , assessing huge fines if you drove them into certain parts of the city.
 
Bongo Lewi said:
Range is not a huge issue. When they travel across borders it's by train or air.
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BINGO! And that there is a HUGE cultural difference between Americans and not just Europe, but most of the world.

We are just not fans of mass transportation. We don't do buses or trains. Cowboys don't do that. We want our own steed and ride off whenever we want... not on someone else's schedule and packed into a sardine can.

This has nothing to do with how "wonderful" mass transportation is over there. I've been there and used it. Japan's system is truly unsurpassed. If your train is scheduled to arrive at 12:08, you can literally sync your watch to it. Crazy efficient. Clean. Polite. All that good stuff.

BUT... who cares? We're not Japan.... or Germany.... or Sweden... or... well any of them. This is America! We don't do mass transportation. Not our style. Plus in the few places we've done it (CHI, NYC, DC)... it suuuuuuuuucks.

Nope. Thanks. And that's why range and expeditious refuels DO matter here... even if won't won't exceed the range on most days. It's about having the FREEDOM to go as long or as far as we want when we DO want to go far.
 
Racer88 said:
We are just not fans of mass transportation. We don't do buses or trains. Cowboys don't do that. We want our own steed and ride off whenever we want... not on someone else's schedule and packed into a sardine can.
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I'm guessing you have had the good fortune of not having to work in a major city and commute every day. This is why you still love driving. :) I'll take a train any day of the week in those top 8 cities. A car is a handicap.

Screenshot 2026-01-18 at 6.09.18 PM.png

When I lived and worked in Manhattan, I never drove. Taxi, subway, occasional town car to the airport.

In DC, I had a motorcycle and rode the Metro.

In WA, I had a beater but I lived on an island you can only get to by ferry. The only reason I bought the car was it was too far to walk to the ferry and I had trouble walking at the time. The other was I had to take the ferry to Seattle for checkups and PT once a week.

So what does this have to do with ICE vs EV for me? I'll just net it out:

1. I don't give flying fuck about driving. There is no joy in it.
2. A vehicle is means to an end for me.
- It's about getting from point A to point B
- I want as close to zero maintenance as possible.
- I don't want to pump gas
- I want a vehicle with advanced features like Full Self Driving
3. I have no need or desire to drive great distances
4. EVs are fast, clean and quiet.
5. I can already make my own electricity. I cannot make my own gasoline. Fuel (charging) costs me nothing.
6. An EV can power an entire home if need be for 3-4 days should other power systems fail.
7. Being independent of power companies, taxes on fuel, and oil companies sounds like freedom to me.
 
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Bongo Lewi said:
I'm guessing you have had the good fortune of not having to work in a major city and commute every day.
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Me and the VAST majority of America. Thankfully we don't live in CHI, NYC, LA, SF, DC or the other major cities... stepping over drug zombies and human feces. Most of us don't live in those places for GOOD REASON. We like the freedom of driving anywhere we want anytime we want. We have SPACE! And it's awesome. It's relatively cheap and SUPER convenient.
 
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Racer88 said:
Me and the VAST majority of America. Thankfully we don't live in CHI, NYC, LA, SF, DC or the other major cities... stepping over drug zombies and human feces. Most of us don't live in those places for GOOD REASON. We like the freedom of driving anywhere we want anytime we want. We have SPACE! And it's awesome. It's relatively cheap and SUPER convenient.
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Yes yes yes….i think we have far more than 8 cities in this fruited plain. And I’m not living in any of those nor do I care to be. Nor do I care to be or live like them. Or I’d be over there.

“Yes Dr Jones, we are all fine… right here.”
 
NavyVette said:
Stellantis is pulling back from EVs too
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EVs arent their only problem. Stellantis’ stock has been under pressure for some time, with its Italian shares slumping nearly 25% last year, and shares are currently down more than 13% since the beginning of 2026. They have to start trimming the fat. Even in Europe nobody was buying their EVs anyway because they sucked.

The local Jeep dealer has a plug in Cherokee on the lot for over a year. They cant give it away. I think it's a hybrid.

Paraphrasing Obi Wan.... These are not the EVs car buyers are looking for. If the Chinese are ever allowed to import EVs into the US, it's going to hurt US, Japan, and Euro car makers badly. That will force Tesla to lower prices. Then the EV tidal wave will begin.
 
Bobster said:
This customs auction has a couple that can't live here anymore... :devilish: UPDATE: for whatever reason the lot was pulled but there were a couple Chinee Tesla knock-offs...

View attachment 38106

But Rich has driven them...


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QOa__xaCPs
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The dude is unwatchable. I had to turn it off.

I have a friend who lives in Thailand part of the year. He's got a Chinese EV and two Teslas back home in the US. I believe his is BYD. He likes it better than his Teslas.
 
Bongo Lewi said:
The dude is unwatchable. I had to turn it off.

I have a friend who lives in Thailand part of the year. He's got a Chinese EV and two Teslas back home in the US. I believe his is BYD. He likes it better than his Teslas.
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I don't watch him that often, his videos are WAY too long!
 
Bobster said:
I don't watch him that often, his videos are WAY too long!
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He picks decent topics but it's like watching an ADD 13 year old. All over the place.

In the Chinese EVs.... he doesn't know anything about how the cars work and cant read or understand Mandarin. Understandable. Not many round eyes do.

So he just starts randomly pushing buttons. There's no thought process. Kind of like the person who pushes the elevator button over and over and over thinking that makes the car arrive sooner.
We all know these kinds of people are everywhere but they piss me off to no end. It's like a pet peeve for me.

When my job was designing industrial control systems, in many cases I was on site when it was being installed and tested. This stuff is complicated and during a startup there's always something wrong that needs to be corrected. Software errors, something isn't wired up right (there are literally tens of thousands of wired connections), sensors or controllers don't work, etc.

As anybody who does technical work knows, troubleshooting is a logical process of elimination. When I am trying to solve a problem the one thing that makes me absolutely nuts is the impatient button pusher or what my father used to call "hammer mechanics" who immediately start beating on something that they cant figure out how to assemble or disassemble.
 
Bongo Lewi said:
Kind of like the person who pushes the elevator button over and over and over thinking that makes the car arrive sooner.
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It's called "eleceleration!" If I push the button more or faster, it goes faster. ;) Really! It's a thing! LOL

1770466308792.png
 
Racer88 said:
It's called "eleceleration!" If I push the button more or faster, it goes faster. ;) Really! It's a thing! LOL

View attachment 38107
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My office was in the Chrysler Bldg in Manhattan. Lots of elevators. It's remarkable how common this is. I guess it's no surprise there's a name for it!

In DC my boss made his bones as a CIA field officer during the peak of the Cold War in the 1960's. He would actually watch people who did this and make a mental note. Kind of like the Navy legend about Adm. Rickover. That legend is the Admiral would observe an officer who was a candidate for his staff over a meal. If the officer salted his food before tasting it, he was out.
 
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