WHAT IS THIS - DECAPPING/SIZING DIE - ODD DAMAGE TO MOUTH OF MY .223 REM CASINGS

CountryFolk

CountryFolk

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I bought Lee's .223 Rem Ultimate Die Set a few years ago from a popular seller on Ebay.
The set was sold as brand new and upon receiving them, I couldn't see any signs of having been used.
Ended up getting busy with some other jobs and so I had to hold off on using them.
Since then, I had built up a pile of brass over the years and so wanted to start preparing them for reloading.

I ran the casings through the cleaning process and then lubricated them according to the instructions on Lee's container.
I then set the die's depth in my Redding T-7 reloader according to Lee's instructions (The die has "LEE - 223 - FO" stamped on it)

The very first .223 case got stuck to the point of upon trying to remove the case, the case holder sheared off the flange at the base of the casing.
From there I was able to remove the decapping pin and then use a punch to tap out the stuck casing.
Upon getting out the casing, I immediately noticed something that I have never seen happen before and I can't explain since I can't adequately see down into the die.

I wondered if it could have been some sort of problem with the casing itself and so I tried another one but the same thing happened and so I had to go through the process of removing it.
Upon removing, it was the same thing whereby the mouth of the casing is now significantly distorted, and just distorted on one side of it which is very odd to me and so I can't explain it and dont know how to fix the problem

I just now sent a message to Lee Precision but probably won't hear back from for a couple/few days and so hoping someone here has seen this problem before and knows what's causing it

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If I had to guess, I'd say the decapping pin is adjusted too high. You are using a quality case lube, right?

Notice the portion of the decapping pin that is larger than the rest of it. This is the part that expands the neck after sizing as the case is withdrawn from the die. The large part must be down inside the body of the case when the neck of the case is being sized.

With a good lanolin lube, it doesn't take a lot of handle pressure to FL size 223 brass. By the looks of the cases, it looks like you had to use some muscle. Did the case jam up as you were pressing down on the press handle?

If the decapping pin is set too high, the neck is being forced into the die and the expander at the same time.

Answer these questions and we'll take it from there.
 
no4mk1t said:
If I had to guess, I'd say the decapping pin is adjusted too high. You are using a quality case lube, right?

Notice the portion of the decapping pin that is larger than the rest of it. This is the part that expands the neck after sizing as the case is withdrawn from the die. The large part must be down inside the body of the case when the neck of the case is being sized.

With a good lanolin lube, it doesn't take a lot of handle pressure to FL size 223 brass. By the looks of the cases, it looks like you had to use some muscle. Did the case jam up as you were pressing down on the press handle?

If the decapping pin is set too high, the neck is being forced into the die and the expander at the same time.

Answer these questions and we'll take it from there.
Click to expand...

I followed the instructions by Lee whereby them saying to make the top of the decapping pin level with the top of its clamping nut.

I'm using Lee's case lubricator and directly followed their specific instructions as well.
I never had ANY problems with Lee's case lube when having done my .270 Win or 30-06 cases.

I didnt have to strain myself for the .223 casing to press all the way into the die. However I did have to apply a bit more effort to it versus what I had to do for my .270 and 30-06 casings.
After the 223 case fully entered the die, I then tried to pull it back out and thats when it was EXTREMELY difficult whereby it DID NOT even release by a mere few thousandths of an inch ... IT WAS STUCK AS STUCK GETS, and as previously mentioned the case holder sheared off the flange of case's base.
 
I just got done trying again to decap and resize the casing but this time leaving the top of the decapping pin a 1/16" above the top of its clamping nut and then leaving the top of the decapping pin a 1/16" below the top of its clamping nut.
Either way resulted with the same problem of the case getting extremely tight upon 90% of the case having pressed into the die.

UPDATE:
Found the culprit but dont know the exact problem.
Before clicking to post this reply, I tried one last process of elimination.
I completely removed the decapping pin and the .223 case was getting extremely tight right at the same distance upon pressing it into the die.
There is something majorly screwed up with the die itself .... Lee's usually excellent quality control was a bit shabby that day

So now going to wait to hear back From Lee Precision's customer service and go from there
 
CountryFolk said:
I followed the instructions by Lee whereby them saying to make the top of the decapping pin level with the top of its clamping nut.

I'm using Lee's case lubricator and directly followed their specific instructions as well.
I never had ANY problems with Lee's case lube when having done my .270 Win or 30-06 cases.

I didnt have to strain myself for the .223 casing to press all the way into the die. However I did have to apply a bit more effort to it versus what I had to do for my .270 and 30-06 casings.
After the 223 case fully entered the die, I then tried to pull it back out and thats when it was EXTREMELY difficult whereby it DID NOT even release by a mere few thousandths of an inch ... IT WAS STUCK AS STUCK GETS, and as previously mentioned the case holder sheared off the flange of case's base.
Click to expand...
Properly lubed, a 223 case should take less effort to resize than a 270 or 30-06. I would say maybe half the effort.
You have more mechanical advantage when lowering the handle than raising it.
Try lubing a case and sizing it without the decap pin in the die. Either confirm or eliminate that right off.
You didn't elaborate on how you are lubing the case or what kind of lube you are using.

Here's two threads you might find informative.

no4mk1t

Tip! Thread 'DIY Spray Case Lube'

This info was originally posted by me 10 years ago, so disregard the prices. This works so well, it's all I've used for the last 10 years. And that one 4oz. bottle of lanolin, and pint of ISP lasts forever. I spilled one batch, and I am still lubing cases with the first bottle of lanolin I bought.

Never been a fan of spray case lubes. When they first became popular back in the 80's, I bought a can of Dillon's aerosol lube, (not the same as what they sell now) and proceeded to stick my first, and to date, only case in the resizing die. Of course I didn't have a stuck case remover...
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CountryFolk said:
I just got done trying again to decap and resize the casing but this time leaving the top of the decapping pin a 1/16" above the top of its clamping nut and then leaving the top of the decapping pin a 1/16" below the top of its clamping nut.
Either way resulted with the same problem of the case getting extremely tight upon 90% of the case having pressed into the die.

UPDATE:
Found the culprit but dont know the exact problem.
Before clicking to post this reply, I tried one last process of elimination.
I completely removed the decapping pin and the .223 case was getting extremely tight right at the same distance upon pressing it into the die.
There is something majorly screwed up with the die itself .... Lee's usually excellent quality control was a bit shabby that day

So now going to wait to hear back From Lee Precision's customer service and go from there
Click to expand...
You got ahead of me before I could finish my post. :p
 
Either the die is too tight or the stem diameter is wrong. If you have a fired case, see how the decapping stem fits. It should slide right in unless you have a really tight match chamber bolt action.

Just to review. The die squeezes down the case neck. The thick portion of the decapping stem expands the case mouth so the bullet has the proper tension. You setup is basically extruding the case neck. That shouldn't be happening.

Lee will make it right. There are plenty of Lee haters who have never tried Lee equipment. It is not the best but it should be functional. 90% of my dies are Lee and I've never had a problem. I have had to clean everything and polish some stuff but they always worked.
 
Hornady One Shot works the best.
It's really great for case lube.
 
I call that stuff "one stuck".

Lately I have been using shooters choice in the can just because it smells sweet but any brand lanolin based, rcbs pump spray, used a Rooster brand pump spray, homemade lanolin and alcohol.

Put all cases mouth up in a box or other container.
Spritz sparingly, take neck brush and brush the necks getting the lightest amount of lube on the brush and inside the neck.
Dump cases in a gallon baggy.
Spray a light spray on each side of the baggy, agitate brass.
Dump out and let alcohol evaporate.

Now what I think about op's cases.
That die is pinching the case neck between the expander and die body.
So I don't care what them instructoes say, that stem needs to be deeper in the case or it or the die is bad.

I bought I think 6.8 spc dies from them and it had the wrong expander rod in it. I think a 7mm expander.
Called Lee, told them and they sent me a new rod.
 
meistermash said:
I bought I think 6.8 spc dies from them and it had the wrong expander rod in it. I think a 7mm expander.
Called Lee, told them and they sent me a new rod.
Click to expand...
Could be. Might have a 6mm expander in it.
@CountryFolk , Mic the expander. If it's bigger than .220-.221, it's the wrong expander.
 
no4mk1t said:
Could be. Might have a 6mm expander in it.
@CountryFolk , Mic the expander. If it's bigger than .220-.221, it's the wrong expander.
Click to expand...

I was looking last night for the specific diameter of the expander
Got tired, went to bed, and then came to the pc to see that you sent a message here
Thanks for the info (y)
I dont have my mics down here at the house and so for now I used my digital calipers .... Mitutoyo and zeroed, I got the measurement of .224 which even though its 3 thousands more than the high end of that .221, I dont think it would cause such distortion in that case mouth when only being 1.5 thousands more on each side ... but I could certainly be wrong since I dont have direct experience in order to know the tolerances with these particular things
 
There are times when an RCH is close enough and .001" off may as well be a mile. This is an example of where .003" may as well be a mile. That is what .003" will do to brass.
 
UPDATE ON LEE PRECISION'S RESPONSE TO THE DEFECTIVE DIE:

After sending Lee several detailed pictures of the die, components, and casings and providing a detailed description of the steps I went through, I received a SHABBY response from their customer service department

Cust Serv Rep response:
quote
I would recommend sending in the sizing die along with a few cases that need to be sized for evaluation and repair, I linked the return form below for you. https://leeprecision.com/files/instruct/returnform.pdf"
end quote

I then clicked on that link for the pdf and it says:
quote
Product purchased less than 2 years ago We will repair or replace your item at no charge.
Fill out form below, send proof of purchase and we will process your requested action for the product.

Product purchased 2+ years ago or no receipt available We will recondition your product for ½ the current retail price + shipping.
If you are seeking a refund for an item or wish to upgrade to another model, we will issue a ½ price merchandise credit refund in the form of a gift certificate.
end quote

My response to Lee was:
quote
Thank you for the quick reply but obviously a no thank you on your resolution

I would like to get my cases prepared soon and not after having to spend time and money on gathering things up, packaging, obtaining a shipping label, and returning the defective die to have it evaluated for repair or replacement

In all actuality, if I got to go through all of that, It ONLY makes sense to just throw this die away, buy a new one, and will be delivered here within a few days
end quote

I mean geeeez .... Lee can even see my account that I have been a customer for several years whereby directly buying numerous supplies from them, and so would think they would just send me a replacement die at no cost to me and at the most they ask if I would return their defective die
 
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Titan reloading if you want Lee stuff.
They do have others as well just not as much.

After this escapade though, might try a different manufacturer.
 
meistermash said:
Dicks.
Click to expand...
Lee serves the value end of the market. They make functional tools to get a job done. Not the prettiest, not perfectly machined, looser tolerances, less expensive raw material. The work and work well. They are not designed to push out 10,000 rounds a day on an industrial machine. They will work for the several thousands of rounds 98% of the market will reload in a customers lifetime and maybe their offspring's lifetime.

Their stuff is priced as such. They also tend to attract more customers that have looser morals. It's not their first rodeo. They could just send you a correct die just to watch your defective die get listed on ebay, then the next guy will buy it and complain to Lee so they replace it again at their expense. When you buy Lee, expect to prove it by sending in defective tools. They are a business not a charity. Buy from a reputable seller like Midway and they assume more of the risk of defective tools. They replace and keep you happy. Price is a little higher to reflect that. Think of it as a couple of bucks for insurance.

The top end manufacturers spend more on machines, more on inspecting, more on higher grade raw material. They price their stuff accordingly. They also price in no questions asked replacement policy. Kind of like Snap-on. You are paying for better than average tools but you are also paying for a truck around the corner when something breaks and needs replaced now.

Pro tip. For something common like a .223 die, stop buying shit on ebay. There is a reason it is there. Sellers claim they are just reselling yard sale stuff and don't know nothin' about nothin'. They know. Accept that when you buy Lee, you pay a lot less but you assume more responsibility for defects. You can buy 2 or 3 Lee dies outright before you cross the break even point with top end gear. Do you need the die to reload a few hundred hunting rounds a year or do you need to reload 1000 rounds a week for competition? Buy the right tool for the job.

Most of my reloading equipment is Lee. I've had a couple of problems. I've had to polish a few things here and there. Lee is my first choice when I look for stuff. I also have a few high end dies from others. They are indeed way better in appearance and tolerances. For the couple of hundred rounds a year I reload, I'm fine with it.

Sorry to be harsh but that's the way it is when you buy Lee and expect more problems when you buy Lee on ebay.
 
Always a possibility of counterfeit items when purchasing on ebay or Amazon based upon my own experience.

That said, I like Lee dies and use them exclusively. I find them to be a great value and easy to setup, maintain, and use.

Inherited a bunch of RCBS dies from my dad and haven't had any desire to even try them.

I guess it is all in what you have gotten comfortable using when it comes to general reloading.

Precision loading requires more tools, time and effort. Lee dies may not be the best choice.
 
I have die sets by RCBS, Redding, Hornady, and Lee.
All of them work just fine. Some of them have features that are more desirable, but I can load good ammo on them all.
Most of my dies are RCBS simply because back in the days before Midway, when everything was in B&W, that is what the Sporting Goods store that I bought my reloading stuff at stocked.

Here's a few of my die sets that still have price stickers on them from "The Good Ole Days". All these were bought in the early to mid 1980's.
Now before you all groan, let's see what the inflation calculator says on how much our gov't has devalued our currency.

223 Remington 2 die set.
1982 price: $16.67
Inflation calculator says that is $57.89 in 2026 dollars.
Midway price on that same die set today is $52.99
Going the other way, $52.99 would have been $15.26 back then.

44 Mag 3 die carbide set.
1983 price: $34.95
Inflation calculator says that is $117.60 in 2026 dollars.
Midway price on that same die set today is $91.99
Going the other way, $91.99 would have been $27.40 back then.

So, dies are cheaper now, probably due to CNC. Even so, $20 back then seemed easier to come by than the $73 inflation has made it. :cry:

You can thank the politicians for printing money out of thin air. 🙄




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