Optics on carry pistols??

Many of us here are "men and women of a certain age." Those who aren't... aren't far behind us! Read on!

MRDS (micro red dot sights) have been gaining in popularity. Yet, some of us cling to the old school, proven, low-tech ways. I totally get it. Part of the fundamentals of marksmanship is the use of iron sights... learning sight alignment and sight picture. I still think it's VERY important. And I will never give up iron sights entirely.

HOWEVER....

There are some significant advantages for pistol-mounted reflex sights.
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First... those of us whose eyes have aged and need "readers" (aka presbyopia), have noticed that we can't focus on that front iron sight very well. I have resorted to getting some "top focal" eye pro, which have a "bifocal" magnifying lens at the TOP of the lens on my dominant eye. I change the lens on the left side to a "bottom focal." That helps with any administrative firearms handling at the range bench.
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And, it works a CHARM! At the range. I highly recommend them. But, what about out in the "wild?" I wont' be wearing my top focal glasses, eh?

"Dot" optics don't require corrective lenses. In fact, they go blurry with readers.

Here's the other BIG advantage: "Dog forbid" you're ever forced to defend yourself "in the wild," the MRDS allows for a "threat-focused" sight picture. Both eyes open. Focused on the target. Super easy and very intuitive. Just superimpose the dot over the target.

Consider the time it takes to shift your point of focus from the target / threat to your front sight, even if you have "good eyes." With a "red / green dot," there's no shifting. You focus on the threat and STAY focused on the threat.

Caveat: I am also trained in "point" or "instinctive" shooting. At close distances, I won't likely be using sights at all. But, that's ANOTHER whole discussion, mmm-kay?

The only "trick" of the whole thing with MRDSes is getting used to "finding the dot."

Ah... but, here's another thing: You don't want to "find the dot." That's right. If you have to look for it, precious fractions of a second are ticking away in a SHTF moment. No bueno!

The KEY is to present the gun consistently such that the dot finds you. It's just there. Every time. You bring the gun up, and there's the dot. You learned how to do it with iron sights. You can learn how to do it with an MRDS.

This takes some practice. But, I promise you will get there, and it will happen faster than you think.

That said... Holosun has come out with a new reticle callled "Vulcan ACSS." It's pretty slick. It projects a LARGE outer ring that isn't there if the "dot" is in the center of the field of view. But, if you're "off," the edge of the circle shows up in the sight window and tells you which way you need to correct the orientation.
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I've got one of these new Holosun sights (with green reticle) on the way for my new P80 "EDC" build. You'll notice that it has a chevron rather than a dot. We'll see how I like that!

I've got two other MRDSes in my "stable." I mounted the "gold standard" Trijicon RMR (RM07) on my home defense FNP-45T years ago. It has a 6.5-MOA dot.
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More recently, I put one on my first P80 build, a G34 clone intended as a range toy. This is the Holosun HE507C-GR X2. It has a 2-MOA GREEN dot. I like the green color better, I think.
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But, this will be the first time I put one on a carry piece. This Polymer80 PFC9 G19-clone:
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As my eyes have changed, I am experiencing a newfound appreciation for MRDS optics. But, I also appreciate the ability to stay threat-focused even as I transition from instinctive to sighted fire.
 
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FWIW, I inquired with SI about their Liteslide compatibility just a bit ago...while they accomodate the 507c, they do not accommodate any of the Holosun K-mount variants...507 or otherwise. I've been doing my homework so I "buy once, cry once", and get it right the first time, Hopefully. hehe
 
Not yours, but the 407k/507k is indeed different than yours according to holosun. They have a few different variants. Yours is likely the 507c

Oh yes... mine are the "C" variety.

In any case, I'm not interested in any optic that requires an adapter.
 
Oh yes... mine are the "C" variety.

In any case, I'm not interested in any optic that requires an adapter.
It doesn’t need an adapter if you have the right slide cut. No different than if you buy a RMR that you have a different slide cut than RMR…It’s like any other RDS…and let’s face it, there is no singular std but proprietary versions thereof. I’m a glass half full guy myself. Lol
 
It doesn’t need an adapter if you have the right slide cut. No different than if you buy a RMR that you have a different slide cut than RMR…It’s like any other RDS…and let’s face it, there is no singular std but proprietary versions thereof. I’m a glass half full guy myself. Lol

All of my slides that are cut, are cut for RMR which seems to be the closest thing to a "standard."
 
All of my slides that are cut, are cut for RMR which seems to be the closest thing to a "standard."
That's the problem. RMR seems standard, but for who? lol. There are at least 4-5 variations. Interestingly enough at the SI site, the light slide won't handle these RDS, as well as the new EPS from Holosun:

"NOT COMPATIBLE: Leupold DeltaPoint Pro, SIG SAUER ROMEO1PRO/03"

You'd think those would be accommodated, but I'm not familiar with the geometry of those mounts. The EPS is 1mm shorter than the std RMS, so you think SI could accommodate another set of holes in the slide to mount it. I put a bug in Bruce's ear...a suggestion box type pf comment, and he said he's turning it over to R&D to explore it. Maybe they well have something soon.
 
That's the problem. RMR seems standard, but for who? lol. There are at least 4-5 variations. Interestingly enough at the SI site, the light slide won't handle these RDS, as well as the new EPS from Holosun:

"NOT COMPATIBLE: Leupold DeltaPoint Pro, SIG SAUER ROMEO1PRO/03"

You'd think those would be accommodated, but I'm not familiar with the geometry of those mounts. The EPS is 1mm shorter than the std RMS, so you think SI could accommodate another set of holes in the slide to mount it. I put a bug in Bruce's ear...a suggestion box type pf comment, and he said he's turning it over to R&D to explore it. Maybe they well have something soon.
OK... who / what is "SI?"
 
So, as every aspect of my builds having my eyes on optics what are all of your favorites. Obviously there are pros and cons to each individual make and model but what are your personal favs? I have been on a pistol optic mission lately which includes looking at price, reliability, durability, as well as being esthetically appealing. I have been focused more so on the following brands. Trijicon , Holosun, Vortex and possibly A Primary Arms. What say you?

P.S. Shot Show is the devil! All it does is make me want!!!
 
It depends somewhat on what your application/needs/goals are. So I guess you have to ask yourself, "what am I trying to accomplish with this setup and what will suit me to get it done?

Range toy? Self/Home defense/CC? Somewhere in the middle that would work well in all areas? Budget? etc.

For me, my one G19 RDS build uses a Burris FF3 with some Truglo TritiumPro Suppressor-height sights...not because I was looking to run a can initially, but running a comp w threaded bbl, and having a good cowitness between the irons AND the RDS. The sidearm was built more for fun, than serious HD/CC/protection duty...but protection was also a secondary consideration, or I would have run the RDS without any irons installed at all. The irons are sort of a failsafe on that slide.

Honestly, the RDS world is still pretty new to me, so I'm likely not the best resource of advice here as I don't have a lot of experience with many. But I CAN say, for this second slide build (G19), I'm looking at things quite differently. Not because the other slide setup sucked, as the config was perfect for what it was built for...the next RDS slide step will be pretty different. Right now I'm gravitating towards the new Holosun EPS Carry MRS (green) RDS on my slide of choice with simple tritium irons (AmerGlo IDOT, Glock, etc haven't made a final decision yet) as the EPD rides low and allows normal iron sight usage. YMMV.

Hope you can save yourself some unneeded expenditures by gleaning some good advice here.

Walk into the shot show saying to yourself "I will not covet I will not covet..." heeharrhee
 
While they are nice to have, probably quick to use, I'm old school and prefer some regular "night sights". Maybe I'll put a mrds on a pistol for a fun build or something, but the Automotive Technician in me just keeps screaming that red dots are just another failure point. I have red dots on all my carbines and they're fine, but my carbines also have BUIS as well.
 
One thing I honestly cannot understand is the concerns about "failure" of the optic, whether it be battery or the electronics themselves. When has this EVER happened? Serious question. I'd love to hear of ONE story where someone's optic failed right when the SHTF.

Ah... but even if it did, it would not render the firearm inoperable - of course. I would STILL be able to fire the weapon, and probably a 98% chance I'd hit my target. There are the back-up irons. But I'm more likely

But such "failures" can easily be mitigated. Change your battery on a regular interval with the timing being BEFORE the battery expires. In most cases, the battery life on these optics is well over a year. Sooooo.... change your batteries at the first of the year, every year. Done!

Failure of the electronics? I suspect that's more a function of the quality of the optic, and.... how much you spent. I would not bet my life with a defensive weapon by equipping it with a $50 - $100 optic. From what I've seen, a decent / reliable pistol optic is going to cost at least $250 - $300. That's just reality. If it's a defensive firearm, don't cheap out. If it's just a range toy, you don't have to worry so much. But me, personally.... I still wouldn't cheap out.

I've only had experience with two brands: Trijicon (RMR) and Holosun (507C). Both are excellent.

Trijicon is the "gold standard" for durability. If you're going to be rolling around in the dirt or going into battle, the Trijicon has proven its durability and reliability. But you pay a serious premium for it. I purchased one for my home defense pistol many years ago.

More recently, I purchased my first Holosun 507C for my first P80 build. I have been very happy with it. Then I bought another 507C (this time with the ACSS Vulcan reticle) for my P80 PFC9 planned to be my new "EDC." I really like it. In fact, I like the Holosun optics BETTER than the Trijicon in terms of ergonomics, ease of use, and features. Hands down, better.

In 2015 the US Marines went to electronic optics on their service rifles. They don't even teach irons anymore. Think about that.
 
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One thing I honestly cannot understand is the concerns about "failure" of the optic, whether it be battery or the electronics themselves. When has this EVER happened? Serious question. I'd love to hear of ONE story where someone's optic failed right when the SHTF.

Ah... but even if it did, it would not render the firearm inoperable - of course. I would STILL be able to fire the weapon, and probably a 98% chance I'd hit my target. There are the back-up irons. But I'm more likely

But such "failures" can easily be mitigated. Change your battery on a regular interval with the timing being BEFORE the battery expires. In most cases, the battery life on these optics is well over a year. Sooooo.... change your batteries at the first of the year, every year. Done!

Failure of the electronics? I suspect that's more a function of the quality of the optic, and.... how much you spent. I would not bet my life with a defensive weapon by equipping it with a $50 - $100 optic. From what I've seen, a decent / reliable pistol optic is going to cost at least $250 - $300. That's just reality. If it's a defensive firearm, don't cheap out. If it's just a range toy, you don't have to worry so much. But me, personally.... I still wouldn't cheap out.

I've only had experience with two brands: Trijicon (RMR) and Holosun (507C). Both are excellent.

Trijicon is the "gold standard" for durability. If you're going to be rolling around in the dirt or going into battle, the Trijicon has proven its durability and reliability. But you pay a serious premium for it. I purchased one for my home defense pistol many years ago.

More recently, I purchased my first Holosun 507C for my first P80 build. I have been very happy with it. Then I bought another 507C (this time with the ACSS Vulcan reticle) for my P80 PFC9 planned to be my new "EDC." I really like it. In fact, I like the Holosun optics BETTER than the Trijicon in terms of ergonomics, ease of use, and features. Hands down, better.

In 2015 the US Marines went to electronic optics on their service rifles. They don't even teach irons anymore. Think about that.
All good points, Racer88. However, Murphy's law has an unpleasant way of surfacing at the worst times. lol. Having said that- for me, I've also been considering completely eschewing iron sights altogether for my next RMS slide build. So sleek....it looks really nice to have that muzzle area unadorned with a front blade. Very cool. hehe
 
All good points, Racer88. However, Murphy's law has an unpleasant way of surfacing at the worst times. lol. Having said that- for me, I've also been considering completely eschewing iron sights altogether for my next RMS slide build. So sleek....it looks really nice to have that muzzle area unadorned with a front blade. Very cool. hehe

If I'm ever forced into a SD situation requiring the use of my pistol at closer distances, I won't be using any kind of sights, optic or irons. It will be instinctive / threat-focused / point shooting.

But the optic's presence does not preclude nor hinder point shooting (any more than traditional iron sights would). And in the odd / rare situation where a precision shot is required at a longer distance... the optic (or irons, as the case may be) is there.

They are not mutually exclusive. Rather, they are complimentary.

For my G17L build, I'm planning no iron sights at all. Just an optic. It will be a range toy.
 
If I'm ever forced into a SD situation requiring the use of my pistol at closer distances, I won't be using any kind of sights, optic or irons. It will be instinctive / threat-focused / point shooting.

But the optic's presence does not preclude nor hinder point shooting (any more than traditional iron sights would). And in the odd / rare situation where a precision shot is required at a longer distance... the optic (or irons, as the case may be) is there.

They are not mutually exclusive. Rather, they are complimentary.

For my G17L build, I'm planning no iron sights at all. Just an optic. It will be a range toy.
It's really whatever works for the individual...and just HAVING something onhand that you are proficient with is a good start.

I would agree to the point and shoot to a degree. The added optic, (depending on this situ and the timing of what happens) is welcome as well....we have no idea just what will go down and how it happens, when and if it does. You can't cookie cutter that. But for SD purposes, as you describe it, you might as well not have an optic either, but a bare slide. No thank you.

What works for one may be another's bane. What I'm not about to do is tell everyone "my way is the RIGHT way". Pfft. I grew up in a household with that (and to this day there are people around me like that) and if you weren't part of the approved group think, you needed to wake up, fly right, and do as they do. Think as they do. Choose as they do. Pfft. Flippin hard headed human, and in my case, German pride and mindset. Yes, that's part of my background. snort.

That's why we have so many flavors of ice cream, brands of vehicles, oodles of options for our sporting and protection needs, etc. Choice is wonderful!
 
I'm not a fan. Seems excessive for 3-5 yards SD distances.
Seems to be a fad, same as all the threaded pistol barrels out there.
Now....admittedly never even shot a pistol with an optic.
 
Seems excessive for 3-5 yards SD distances.
That's because it's NOT for those distances. I don't use iron sights at those distances, either, when it comes to quick defensive shooting.

Seems to be a fad, same as all the threaded pistol barrels out there.
Now....admittedly never even shot a pistol with an optic.
Haha... it's definitely not a fad. Pistol optics have been around for a VERY long time. They're getting much better and thusly more popular.
 
I'm not a fan. Seems excessive for 3-5 yards SD distances.
Seems to be a fad, same as all the threaded pistol barrels out there.
Now....admittedly never even shot a pistol with an optic.
It does in fact seem to be a fad that has really caught on...that's why I've done most builds without them...but wanted to give them a try. lol They are catching-on...but for how long? IMO a good sidearm in the right hands with good, tritium irons (and maybe the fibre optics over tritium like we've used quite a bit in our builds) for day and night is hard to beat. Everybody is different.
 
IMO a good sidearm in the right hands with good, tritium irons (and maybe the fibre optics over tritium like we've used quite a bit in our builds) for day and night is hard to beat.

Ah, of course. An optic will NOT make anyone a better shooter. The fundamentals that apply with irons apply with optics in the EXACT same way.

A good driver in a Mazda Miata will run CIRCLES around an unskilled driver in a Ferrari on the track. And that's not an exaggeration. I've seen it. The car doesn't make the driver. The type of sights on a firearm don't make the shooter, either.

I think I got my first pistol optic at least 10 years ago. I don't want to admit what I paid for it! o_O They aren't a new thing.
 
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