Optics on carry pistols??

Many of us here are "men and women of a certain age." Those who aren't... aren't far behind us! Read on!

MRDS (micro red dot sights) have been gaining in popularity. Yet, some of us cling to the old school, proven, low-tech ways. I totally get it. Part of the fundamentals of marksmanship is the use of iron sights... learning sight alignment and sight picture. I still think it's VERY important. And I will never give up iron sights entirely.

HOWEVER....

There are some significant advantages for pistol-mounted reflex sights.
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First... those of us whose eyes have aged and need "readers" (aka presbyopia), have noticed that we can't focus on that front iron sight very well. I have resorted to getting some "top focal" eye pro, which have a "bifocal" magnifying lens at the TOP of the lens on my dominant eye. I change the lens on the left side to a "bottom focal." That helps with any administrative firearms handling at the range bench.
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And, it works a CHARM! At the range. I highly recommend them. But, what about out in the "wild?" I wont' be wearing my top focal glasses, eh?

"Dot" optics don't require corrective lenses. In fact, they go blurry with readers.

Here's the other BIG advantage: "Dog forbid" you're ever forced to defend yourself "in the wild," the MRDS allows for a "threat-focused" sight picture. Both eyes open. Focused on the target. Super easy and very intuitive. Just superimpose the dot over the target.

Consider the time it takes to shift your point of focus from the target / threat to your front sight, even if you have "good eyes." With a "red / green dot," there's no shifting. You focus on the threat and STAY focused on the threat.

Caveat: I am also trained in "point" or "instinctive" shooting. At close distances, I won't likely be using sights at all. But, that's ANOTHER whole discussion, mmm-kay?

The only "trick" of the whole thing with MRDSes is getting used to "finding the dot."

Ah... but, here's another thing: You don't want to "find the dot." That's right. If you have to look for it, precious fractions of a second are ticking away in a SHTF moment. No bueno!

The KEY is to present the gun consistently such that the dot finds you. It's just there. Every time. You bring the gun up, and there's the dot. You learned how to do it with iron sights. You can learn how to do it with an MRDS.

This takes some practice. But, I promise you will get there, and it will happen faster than you think.

That said... Holosun has come out with a new reticle callled "Vulcan ACSS." It's pretty slick. It projects a LARGE outer ring that isn't there if the "dot" is in the center of the field of view. But, if you're "off," the edge of the circle shows up in the sight window and tells you which way you need to correct the orientation.
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I've got one of these new Holosun sights (with green reticle) on the way for my new P80 "EDC" build. You'll notice that it has a chevron rather than a dot. We'll see how I like that!

I've got two other MRDSes in my "stable." I mounted the "gold standard" Trijicon RMR (RM07) on my home defense FNP-45T years ago. It has a 6.5-MOA dot.
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More recently, I put one on my first P80 build, a G34 clone intended as a range toy. This is the Holosun HE507C-GR X2. It has a 2-MOA GREEN dot. I like the green color better, I think.
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But, this will be the first time I put one on a carry piece. This Polymer80 PFC9 G19-clone:
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As my eyes have changed, I am experiencing a newfound appreciation for MRDS optics. But, I also appreciate the ability to stay threat-focused even as I transition from instinctive to sighted fire.
 
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They have been around for a long time as Racer says, but in modern tech have become much more refined. How much of real need vs Hollyweird is driving the interest today? Not sure. I don't think we'l see them going away...but the groundswell of interest for them on sidearms may or may not wane Time will tell. The market can be very fickle...for better, and sometimes, for worse.
 
Fibre optics require some ambient light, in almost darkness a optic at very low setting would be very usefull.
Too bright a setting would prevent you from seeing the outline of your opponent.
Now we get the question of identifying your target as friend or foe and not accidentally killing your child sneaking back into the house.
Flashlight mounted would be more useful for your night stand gun.
As long as the inner beam in ion target that's where the bullet goes.
Never been a fan of lasers on handguns either, especially CCW guns. Youre never going to see the little laser dot
 
Fibre optics require some ambient light, in almost darkness a optic at very low setting would be very usefull.
Too bright a setting would prevent you from seeing the outline of your opponent.
Now we get the question of identifying your target as friend or foe and not accidentally killing your child sneaking back into the house.
Flashlight mounted would be more useful for your night stand gun.
As long as the inner beam in ion target that's where the bullet goes.
Never been a fan of lasers on handguns either, especially CCW guns. Youre never going to see the little laser dot
We use the TruGlo TFO irons which are FibreOptic w/tritium behind the FO. It's an incredible sight set...perfect for day use as any ambient light really lights them up (without your attacker seeing them at night), and of course the tritium illuminates them well at dusk/night time. IMO, and again, this is for me, they are near perfect. We couple that setup with Olight Baldr S light/laser and it's a rocking recipie on our SC builds. That little sucker is brighter than my 3D-cell LED maglite...it's incredible.

For us, they are fine and tick all the boxes. "Never going to see that laser dot." Maybe you won't, but they are bright, green dots. Again, use what you want. We'll do the same. Cheers.
 
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I must say that due to the real estate those TFO rear irons require fwd of the dovetail they mount in, they are NOT optimum for a RDS...pretty much won't fit with a RDS, unless you run the rear irons FWD of the RDS..
 
We use the TruGlo TFO irons which are FibreOptic w/tritium behind the FO. It's an incredible sight set...perfect for day use as any ambient light really lights them up (without your attacker seeing them at night), and of course the tritium illuminates them well at dusk/night time. IMO, and again, this is for me, they are near perfect. We couple that setup with Olight Baldr S light/laser and it's a rocking recipie on our SC builds. That little sucker is brighter than my LED maglite...it's incredible.

For us, they are fine and tick all the boxes. "Never going to see that laser dot." Maybe you won't, but they are bright, green dots. Again, use what you want. We'll do the same. Cheers.
You mean this getup? That does look impressive.

SHTFblog_best-survival_tactical_light_olight_baldr_green_laser.jpg
 
You mean this getup? That does look impressive.

SHTFblog_best-survival_tactical_light_olight_baldr_green_laser.jpg
SPOT ON! That being said, that display has the flashlight portion off...Even brighter still with the flashlight on...completely blinds the adversary. I can switch/choose between laser, flashlight, or both. Alpa Chino, that's a pretty accurate portrayal. The green may be amplified in the processing a bit, but that's the idea.
 
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SPOT ON! That being said, that display has the flashlight portion off...Even brighter still with the flashlight on...completely blinds the adversary. I can switch/choose between laser, flashlight, or both. Alpa Chino, that's a pretty accurate portrayal. The green may be amplified in the processing a bit, but that's the idea.
@One Ping Only
Q1. Can that laser on the O-light be adjusted at all like a sight can?
I watched a video online with that laser O-light and he was using it as a sight to hit targets at night. Just wondering how accurate it might be hanging down below the barrel.

I am in the dilemma where during the past year my eyesight has taken a quick turn for the worse and now I need reading glasses. In 2021 when i bought most of my slides, I didn't get versions with RMR cuts on most of them. So, now I want optics on them due to my new need for reading glasses. It's either have the slide cut, or replace the slide. I think Swampfox sells a miniture RDS that mounts on an adapter plate mounting to a rear sight taper, but they don't make one for a Glock/P80.

Q2. If I used that TFO with a RDS, will that be too much light ruckus happening?
If I opt for cutting some of my slides, I may make it a combat cut where the rear sight is forward of the optic and my hunch is that this won't be the best if using a TFO because that may be a lot of light happening in one area near the optic. I do wish TruGlo would give the height measurements of their taller TFO sight, so I can see if they are red dot friendly.

Here's the video I mentioned above. This doooood does really good, thorough reviews:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnWFn4lI3_A
 
Yep the Olight Baldr S has elevation and windage adjustments (for the laser). I have then dialed-in on both our SC's.
 
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@One Ping Only
Q1. Can that laser on the O-light be adjusted at all like a sight can?
I watched a video online with that laser O-light and he was using it as a sight to hit targets at night. Just wondering how accurate it might be hanging down below the barrel.

I am in the dilemma where during the past year my eyesight has taken a quick turn for the worse and now I need reading glasses. In 2021 when i bought most of my slides, I didn't get versions with RMR cuts on most of them. So, now I want optics on them due to my new need for reading glasses. It's either have the slide cut, or replace the slide. I think Swampfox sells a miniture RDS that mounts on an adapter plate mounting to a rear sight taper, but they don't make one for a Glock/P80.

Q2. If I used that TFO with a RDS, will that be too much light ruckus happening?
If I opt for cutting some of my slides, I may make it a combat cut where the rear sight is forward of the optic and my hunch is that this won't be the best if using a TFO because that may be a lot of light happening in one area near the optic. I do wish TruGlo would give the height measurements of their taller TFO sight, so I can see if they are red dot friendly.

Here's the video I mentioned above. This doooood does really good, thorough reviews:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnWFn4lI3_A

You will for that the TruGlo set in question extends fwd of the dovetail in the slide, considerably. Usually a RDS IS SLAMMED virtually against that rear dovetail in the slide with maybe 1/16 to 1/8” clearance, so normal rear irons or nightsights will clear. Unfortunately, those fiber optics in that mount extend not just in front of, but somewhat behind that dovetail mount…so it would likely entail a custom-cut slide to accommodate those sights with a RDS. That is my ONLY complaint, if I have one at all, regarding these sights is you may have a tough time incorporating a RDS with them.

My opinion, if the TFO’s are what you want, just forgo the RDS and get a nice weapons light that mounts on the frame underside. Ymmv

I’m building a new slide for a g19, and for THIS particular slide I’m going with a more svelte Tritium iron sight (Ameriglo,etc) that will keep the RDS MILLED AREA clear for a future RDS if and when I want to make that move.
 
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I do not work for TruGlo whatsoever. But I have installed a half a dozen of the TFO model sights, and other variant of theirs. I like them for what they are designed to do as they do it well. Again, ymmv.
 
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Racer88- I bit the bullet so to speak, and ordered a g19 aftermarket slide cut with the RMR/507c footprint, and a slide cover. I figured I might as well go with a RDS footprint that’s more ubiquitous, and has a slide cover available to fit, as well. Lol…later I hope to add the RDS to it. Can’t wait to get this next project cooking, and what I’ve been preparing a frame for to complete it.
 
Racer88- I bit the bullet so to speak, and ordered a g19 aftermarket slide cut with the RMR/507c footprint, and a slide cover. I figured I might as well go with a RDS footprint that’s more ubiquitous, and has a slide cover available to fit, as well. Lol…later I hope to add the RDS to it. Can’t wait to get this next project cooking, and what I’ve been preparing a frame for to complete it.
Cool! Keep us posted on how it's going!
 
Q1. Can that laser on the O-light be adjusted at all like a sight can?
yes, they are. I don't use lasers for aiming but I do often use lasers to zero and or confirm zero on pistols and rifles.

One shot zero???
Pretty cool gizmo. I have poor man zeroing process. I use same concept with my Olight Green Laser. Either rifle or pistol, fire 3 shots, adjust laser to the center of group, walk in rifle/pistol scope or red dot. Repeat until your satisfied. As long as I remember which way to click, I'm zeroed in few rounds or box of full 50x 😅

Q2. If I used that TFO with a RDS, will that be too much light ruckus happening?
So ideally you want backup iron with blackened serrated rear sight to avoid too much, as you say ruckus, for your eye to focus. Some people use a black sharpie or nail polish to cover them up.

Here are some of the aftermarket night sights I have tried so far.

1. Truglo Tritium Green Night Sight - it was the cheapest on Amazon, had it on 43x until I got an optic cut.
2. Fiber optic - ok for range and bright daylight but not really great in total darkness.
3. Night Fision Tritium - Amazon and PA sell just the front sights, and save money on the rear sights. I usually reverse the OEM rear sight or have a ton of serrated blacked rear sights from 80P/ZP that came with a slide. I have a different color for better contrast. For examples:
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Another caveat... you might have astigmatism. I didn't really notice until I saw a youtube vid about the difference between regular vision and astigmatism. For me, it looks like a 2nd picture, 5-6 stars. More noticeable at night. In the daytime or indoor range, I see the clear dot.

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Everyone's eye is a little different, my solution probably isn't the best for you. Gotta experiment to figure out which combo works best for you. I have tried red dot and green dot with 2MOA, 6MOA, and 3 MOA, the best for me was the Green Dot with 2MOA.

BTW, it will get expensive, I would recommend goto Reddit GAFS for used/minty red/green dots. Most came from there and got it for great prices. The Reddit vendor for the optic cut name is u/wage92.

Here is a great vid explanation...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaD9rAef-bI
 
Due to the forthcoming plan to eventually mount a RDS on the incoming slide, I did go a different direction with Iron sights than the TruGlo TFO's for the above mentioned clearance reasons, and a different direction than the TruGlo Tritium Pro (suppressor height) sights on the other G19 slide that wears a Burris FF3. We'll see how they work out. Part should start arriving in a few more days to get this build completed.

Racer88...are you still liking the chevron reticle, now that you've used it for a bit? I'm wondering if the other more conventional circle/dot setup may be better for HD/CC situations. Hmmm. Time to do a deep dive on that subject. hehe
 
Racer88...are you still liking the chevron reticle, now that you've used it for a bit? I'm wondering if the other more conventional circle/dot setup may be better for HD/CC situations.

I think it's personal preference. In the end... probably "Six of one, half a dozen of the other."

I do like the chevron better than a single dot for defensive (non-bullseye) use.

A lot of people like the "circle-dot" combo for defensive use. I'd probably do just fine with that, too.

The advantage of the ACSS Vulcan reticle is that it also has the large outer circle that helps to "find the dot" if the pistol is misaligned.
 
yes, they are. I don't use lasers for aiming but I do often use lasers to zero and or confirm zero on pistols and rifles.

One shot zero???



So ideally you want backup iron with blackened serrated rear sight to avoid too much, as you say ruckus, for your eye to focus. Some people use a black sharpie or nail polish to cover them up.

Here are some of the aftermarket night sights I have tried so far.

1. Truglo Tritium Green Night Sight - it was the cheapest on Amazon, had it on 43x until I got an optic cut.
2. Fiber optic - ok for range and bright daylight but not really great in total darkness.
3. Night Fision Tritium - Amazon and PA sell just the front sights, and save money on the rear sights. I usually reverse the OEM rear sight or have a ton of serrated blacked rear sights from 80P/ZP that came with a slide. I have a different color for better contrast. For examples:
View attachment 8995View attachment 8994View attachment 8993

Another caveat... you might have astigmatism. I didn't really notice until I saw a youtube vid about the difference between regular vision and astigmatism. For me, it looks like a 2nd picture, 5-6 stars. More noticeable at night. In the daytime or indoor range, I see the clear dot.

View attachment 8992

Everyone's eye is a little different, my solution probably isn't the best for you. Gotta experiment to figure out which combo works best for you. I have tried red dot and green dot with 2MOA, 6MOA, and 3 MOA, the best for me was the Green Dot with 2MOA.

BTW, it will get expensive, I would recommend goto Reddit GAFS for used/minty red/green dots. Most came from there and got it for great prices. The Reddit vendor for the optic cut name is u/wage92.

Here is a great vid explanation...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaD9rAef-bI

Thank you so much for the detailed explanation. I am now crossing the bridge on sights and scopes and it's been a maze of options. I recently purchased a cheap red dot for an AR just to see what they are about. In your image with all the white circles, I see the dot on the farthest right circle.

And that kid/man in the video is rocking it with his excellent video. He did a magnificent job and presentation. Thanks for sharing that one. Everyone should watch that video just for knowledge. If he ever reads my post, I hope he is not offended by me saying kid. That was a compliment somewhat because his knowledge belies how old he appears to be.
 
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We use the TruGlo TFO irons which are FibreOptic w/tritium behind the FO. It's an incredible sight set...perfect for day use as any ambient light really lights them up (without your attacker seeing them at night), and of course the tritium illuminates them well at dusk/night time. IMO, and again, this is for me, they are near perfect. We couple that setup with Olight Baldr S light/laser and it's a rocking recipie on our SC builds. That little sucker is brighter than my 3D-cell LED maglite...it's incredible.

For us, they are fine and tick all the boxes. "Never going to see that laser dot." Maybe you won't, but they are bright, green dots. Again, use what you want. We'll do the same. Cheers.
We run the TFO sights as well, and overall I do like them in both day and night use, though they can throw a little curve ball in dark-to-light transition areas. It's not a tremendous issue, just be aware of it.
Yes, the TFOs will have issue working with the RDS footprint, but I have other sights in the bin that could be used for back-up sights.

I am also in the camp interested in RDS, but not yet ready to drop the coin. The technology is definitely improving, and I do think there will eventually be more standardization on mounting footprint - just like the pic rail/ keymod/ m-lok mounting.

I also think we'll likely see "matched sets" of RDS/ back-up sights packaged together at some point, or even the RDS with a rear goal post sight as part of the RDS housing, accompanied by the matched front sight.

/K
 
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We run the TFO sights as well, and overall I do like them in both day and night use, though they can throw a little curve ball in dark-to-light transition areas. It's not a tremendous issue, just be aware of it.
Yes, the TFOs will have issue working with the RDS footprint, but I have other sights in the bin that could be used for back-up sights.

I am also in the camp interested in RDS, but not yet ready to drop the coin. The technology is definitely improving, and I do think there will eventually be more standardization on mounting footprint - just like the pic rail/ keymod/ m-lok mounting.

I also think we'll likely see "matched sets" of RDS/ back-up sights packaged together at some point, or even the RDS with a rear goal post sight as part of the RDS housing, accompanied by the matched front sight.

/K
Hmm that’s an interesting point Ken about the dark to light transition IYE, out here on the property, I haven’t had that issue. I did take a pic of my SC at near-dusk outdoors to show just how amplified the green dots are…I deleted that pic and will try and get another one snapped and posted.

Maybe you’re speaking of going from dark room to a lighted one, etc?
 
Hmm that’s an interesting point Ken about the dark to light transition IYE, out here on the property, I haven’t had that issue. I did take a pic of my SC at near-dusk outdoors to show just how amplified the green dots are…I deleted that pic and will try and get another one snapped and posted.

Maybe you’re speaking of going from dark room to a lighted one, etc?
You are correct, sir. For example; from inside my shop, looking towards bright daylight outside - there's not enough ambient light to illuminate the plastic fiber optic rods strongly enough to contrast against the brighter target/ background.

This doesn't render the pistol inoperable, rather, it presents more as blacked-out iron sights with goal post rear/ post front - which may come as a surprise if you're looking for the green dot(s). I am seriously considering pulling my front sight and applying a high contrast paint around the fiber optic in order to help the front sight stand out in such situation.

/K
 
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Here’s those two pics…(outdoors) it was darker outside than the picture illustrates…
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Those pics were taken just after 5pm here in the PNW two days ago, and it was much darker than my iPhone rendered the images. The only post-processing was cropping, and nothing else.

I haven’t had your experience but I have a hard time thinking they will more or less “wash out” as you seem to describe, as the Tritium in these that backlight the FO vials is pretty hearty. These sights are about a year old. As always, YMMV
 
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