The "Tank" build diary! This thing is going to be nuts!

The Tank is obviously shooting big groups. I'd swap out the slide whistle barrel. The barrel is probably not defective. The ports will affect the handling of the gun. The muzzle pushes south on every round, so you compensate your aim. Not the case with the Celtic. It's difficult to compare the two without the pistols being locked in a machine rest, completely removing the human factor.

I'm inclined to believe that if you shot the Tank all the time, you would adjust your form, adapt to the guns behavior, and this issue goes away. It's tough to shoot different handguns equally well. I have been working on that for 20 years and still haven't perfected the skill of being able to pick up any pistol off the ground and shoot a two-inch group at 25 yards. A zillion rounds and fifty guns later I've gotten a lot better at it but perfection is very difficult - if not impossible.

This is why I spent the coin on a Ransom Rest. It resolved an issue every pistoleer asks him/herself: "Is it me or the gun?" So far, 100% of the time I have found it's not the gun.
 
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Bongo Lewi said:
The muzzle pushes south on every round, so you compensate your aim.
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Nope. I'm not compensating changing my aim at all. That I can promise. The AIM is exactly the same. By aim, I'm referring to sight alignment and sight picture.

Bongo Lewi said:
Not the case with the Celtic. It's difficult to compare the two without the pistols being locked in a machine rest, completely removing the human factor.
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True, of course. I just wanted to use a different pistol on the same day, the same distance, same target, etc... that I've shot well in the past. Just to eliminate the notion that I simply suck on that day.

Bongo Lewi said:
I'm inclined to believe that if you shot the Tank all the time, you would adjust your form, adapt to the guns behavior, and this issue goes away.
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While I agree that different guns handle differently, the significant difference in groups cannot be explained by that factor alone, IMO. I cannot claim ultimate expertise and skill, but I've trained and practiced enough to be able to call my shots most of the time. I know when it's me... most of the time. This barrel is throwing some "flyers" that seem to defy explanation by a grip, flinch, trigger manipulation error... ie... human factor.

It's not like The Tank is a particularly more difficult gun to shoot. I'm not comparing a .22LR pistol and a .357-mag snubbie. If anything, The Tank is easier to shoot, since it's bigger and has less recoil.

Bongo Lewi said:
This is why I spent the coin on a Ransom Rest. It resolved an issue every pistoleer asks him/herself: "Is it me or the gun?" So far, 100% of the time I have found it's not the gun.
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Yeah... by the time you add all the needed accessories, it's well north of $1000. The scientist in me loves the idea. But... hoo-boy... is the juice worth the squeeze? While I cannot replicate such consistency with my comparatively feeble body and above average skills... I think I'm good enough to draw some general conclusions.

ETA: For those who missed it... on the previous page (message #180), I posted some targets:

The "Tank" build diary! This thing is going to be nuts!

How is an egg sinker and a wooden dowel expensive? He’s already got every else. You tap it through then use a micrometer. Easy piecy, lemon squeezy. ( Yes I stole that from MGB) You and I have done it and it is easy enough. What I am leaving out is the barrel I ruined by sticking a ball and...
www.patriotgunbuilders.com www.patriotgunbuilders.com
 
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Well, one good thing... is the FTF problem is gone, gone, gone! It's running like a top! Now I just have to "figger out" the shot grouping issue and then dial in the sights for POA = POI.
 
If the crown were buggered you would definitely see flyers but yours looked OK to me. I have never observed a ported barrel causing bullet instability. Usually, porting has the opposite effect. Less recoil, muzzle flip. Thus better follow-up shots.

You could have a stacking problem and that's why this is so hard to troubleshoot. Maybe not one issue but several small things. Change the barrel. No joy...? Then swap out the slide. From left field...maybe the bleachers... frame flex? Or right field... swap out the spikey guide rod. Process of elimination.

I think we all have found ourselves troubleshooting something and said, "That can't be it". And it was. One thing is certain. If it isn't you, it's the gun.
 
Resurrecting this thread! I've got so many guns, some builds end up being neglected before I get them perfectly reliable.

I recently brought this build back out to further "de-bug" it. One problem I've had is very weak ejection.

Season 3 Nbc GIF by The Office


I believe the "stock" spring weight is 17 lbs. But this barrel is ported, so there will be less recoil force on the spring.

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So, I've gradually reduced the recoil spring weight. From 15# to 14#. Still weak.

This weekend I went to 13#, and it was better. But for the heck of it, I went down to the lightest spring I had, which is 12#. That definitely worked.

So, I'll leave it there and continue to test. We'll see if it has any problems returning into battery.... or if the slide starts beating up the frame. I'll have to monitor.
 
I forgot about this beast! Glad you brought it back to the front of the line.
 
Racer88 said:
I recently brought this build back out to further "de-bug" it. One problem I've had is very weak ejection.
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Which ejector are you running?
Is the extractor MIM?

If the extractor does not maintain control of the case until it strikes the ejector, ejection force and direction will vary.
Switching to a billet extractor and 30274 ejector solved all my issues. Now it piles them up.
Racer88 said:
I believe the "stock" spring weight is 17 lbs. But this barrel is ported, so there will be less recoil force on the spring.
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I have never used a ported barrel on an auto, so I am not sure about this, but it would seem that the ports reduce muzzle flip rather than affect the reciprocating force.
Have you tried swapping the barrel for a plain one and see if it changes anything?
Racer88 said:
So, I've gradually reduced the recoil spring weight. From 15# to 14#. Still weak.

This weekend I went to 13#, and it was better. But for the heck of it, I went down to the lightest spring I had, which is 12#. That definitely worked.

So, I'll leave it there and continue to test. We'll see if it has any problems returning into battery.... or if the slide starts beating up the frame. I'll have to monitor.
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Light recoil springs are mainly used with light loads. For full power factory ammo, I would rather stick with the standard weight spring for the reasons you mention.
 
Compensators and ported barrels can absolutely require a lesser weight RSA. Some can be more difficult than others to find the right weight RSA to keep the gun functioning properly.
 
I'm inclined to agree with NO4 that the rearward momentum of the slide is not likely to change much due to the ported barrel.

The longer barrel... generally equates to higher velocity as we all know. I'd measure and compare velocity with the same type ammo using a factory length barrel and the longer ported one.

Another thing that occurs to me is that the extra long barrel may not be tilting correctly on recoil. This is common with silencers due to the extra weight on the end of the barrel.

Maybe the barrel opening in the slide may be a little too small for the ported, somewhat 'bull' barrel. If so, that might lead one to believe that it's a recoil spring issue. Any unusual indicator of rubbing on the barrel?

Just some thoughts. The extra light spring doesn't seem like the right solution to me.
 
no4mk1t said:
Light recoil springs are mainly used with light loads. For full power factory ammo, I would rather stick with the standard weight spring for the reasons you mention.
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Lighter springs are necessary when the recoil force is reduced. The ported barrel reduces the recoil force on the recoil spring. If it's standard weight, the recoil isn't enough to fully cycle the slide.
 
So, after posing this question to AI, the answer is that Racer is on the right track. (Pun intended) ;)
I would have thought that the window cuts in the slide would have offset the ports, but it seems not enough to still use the factory spring.

Carry on!
 

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