New printer, new filament, new build started

[trekgod3]

Got myself a refurb Ender 3 S1 Pro for Christmas from Ebay. Been wanting to try out printing something other than PLA Plus. So, I started a G19 Chairmanwon build. The filament I'm using is Polymaker Fiberon PET CF. This stuff is awesome.

 

[trekgod3]

I used CHEP'S extra fast Cura profile, printed in 7 and half hours, rails down. 290c nozzle, 85c bed, 40mm/s speed, 10 percent fan cooling.

 

[Racer88]

That is cool! How much finishing will you need to do? What is the process?

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Cool. What's your first impression on the overall strength of the frame compared to your average injection molded frame?

 

[trekgod3]

Cool. What's your first impression on the overall strength of the frame compared to your average injection molded frame?

It feels pretty strong, I haven't tried to flex or squeeze the hell out of it.

 

[trekgod3]

That is cool! How much finishing will you need to do? What is the process?

Since I printed it rails down, the interior is a little rough, probably just need a little bit of sanding and filing to get everything to fit properly

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Interesting. My gut (not experience) tells me that copying the design of an injection molded frame isn't the right approach. The use of injection molded, glass reinforced polymer influences the overall design of modern handguns.

Yours is the best example I recall seeing here, so I'm interested in how it goes as you complete the project.

My thoughts are that since filaments available and 3d printing in general cannot duplicate the strength of traditional plastic pistol frames, maybe the right approach his to not try and look like them. If you want the frame to be durable. In short, a 3d printed handgun that can stand up to the forces applied to it probably doesn't look like commercially made handguns. Because glass filled polymer is way stronger. That's my unproven theory.

Carry on. As I said, this is really interesting.

 

[brian]

Try squeezing it on the top "rail" of the muzzle end. For my my PLA+ prints this area has held up ok, but for the SunLu PLA-CF one I did it snapped fairly easily.

 

[trekgod3]

Interesting. My gut (not experience) tells me that copying the design of an injection molded frame isn't the right approach. The use of injection molded, glass reinforced polymer influences the overall design of modern handguns.

Yours is the best example I recall seeing here, so I'm interested in how it goes as you complete the project.

My thoughts are that since filaments available and 3d printing in general cannot duplicate the strength of traditional plastic pistol frames, maybe the right approach his to not try and look like them. If you want the frame to be durable. In short, a 3d printed handgun that can stand up to the forces applied to it probably doesn't look like commercially made handguns. Because glass filled polymer is way stronger. That's my unproven theory.

Carry on. As I said, this is really interesting.

I was just watching a video on a new type of filament, PET GF, which is glass fiber instead of carbon fiber so that may be another option too

 

[trekgod3]

Try squeezing it on the top "rail" of the muzzle end. For my my PLA+ prints this area has held up ok, but for the SunLu PLA-CF one I did it snapped fairly easily.

I squeezed it really hard, it barely flexes. Also, I only printed it at 75 percent infill

 

[Bobster]

That is cool! How much finishing will you need to do? What is the process?

@trekgod3 I had the same questions. Do you "touch up" the edges with a razor knife or deburr tool? Sandpaper?

 

[trekgod3]

@trekgod3 I had the same questions. Do you "touch up" the edges with a razor knife or deburr tool? Sandpaper?

On my other 3d printed frame , I had to do a lot of filing. I have this cool little skinny file set from harbor freight that I use. It has a bunch of different size and shaped files
https://www.harborfreight.com/12-piece-precision-needle-file-set-4614.html

 

[Michele]

Looks really nice. Let us know how it performs

 

[James Moore]

IMHO, carbon fiber does little to improve the strength of a printed firearm. In fact it probably makes it weaker.
I've seen several tests that show fiber induced filament is stronger along the xy orientation, but the strength along the layer lines is usually weaker. Probably because the fibers reduce the actual bonding area.
Don't anyone misunderstand me, I'm talking about printed guns being weaker with fiber induced materials, not injection molded firearms.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Did you consider Nylon (PA) when choosing PET? Nylon isn't as hard but I have wondered if that a good thing or a bad thing for a pistol frame. Nylon rifle stocks got a negative response back in the day but those rifles today are still serviceable after decades of hard use. They were injection molded of course. Very different process but my curiosity is about what's the best material. Hardness doesn't always mean better.

I presume you had to upgrade the hot end and extruder to use PET?

I've made a variety of small parts 3D but no pistol frames. I have a small hobby mill that I've had for several years and I tend to gravitate to metal vs. printing. Old habits die hard. The tensile and yield strength of 3d printed parts gives me reason to question durability. 3d blows away the traditional cost and effort of prototyping but I'm not sold on its use for production in firearms. At least not frames. Yet.

In the same breath, a lot of gun poobahs said MIM was inferior. The technology improved and now it's everywhere.

 

[trekgod3]

Did you consider Nylon (PA) when choosing PET? Nylon isn't as hard but I have wondered if that a good thing or a bad thing for a pistol frame. Nylon rifle stocks got a negative response back in the day but those rifles today are still serviceable after decades of hard use. They were injection molded of course. Very different process but my curiosity is about what's the best material. Hardness doesn't always mean better.

I presume you had to upgrade the hot end and extruder to use PET?

I've made a variety of small parts 3D but no pistol frames. I have a small hobby mill that I've had for several years and I tend to gravitate to metal vs. printing. Old habits die hard. The tensile and yield strength of 3d printed parts gives me reason to question durability. 3d blows away the traditional cost and effort of prototyping but I'm not sold on its use for production in firearms. At least not frames. Yet.

In the same breath, a lot of gun poobahs said MIM was inferior. The technology improved and now it's everywhere.

The reason I chose the ender 3 s1 pro was because it comes with an all metal hot end that handles up to 300c . My old ender 3 v1 maxes out at 260

 

[Bongo Lewi]

The reason I chose the ender 3 s1 pro was because it comes with an all metal hot end that handles up to 300c . My old ender 3 v1 maxes out at 260

Good info. I have been on the fence for a year about what printer to upgrade to.

 

[Racer88]

IMHO, carbon fiber does little to improve the strength of a printed firearm. In fact it probably makes it weaker.
I've seen several tests that show fiber induced filament is stronger along the xy orientation, but the strength along the layer lines is usually weaker. Probably because the fibers reduce the actual bonding area.
Don't anyone misunderstand me, I'm talking about printed guns being weaker with fiber induced materials, not injection molded firearms.

That makes sense to me. There's a BIG difference between injection molding and printing plastic.... akin to cast metal vs something made out of layers of solder.

Carbon fiber has great tensile strength, but sucks in compression and shear. Ask the folks on that home-made submersible that now rests next to the Titanic.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

That makes sense to me. There's a BIG difference between injection molding and printing plastic.... akin to cast metal vs something made out of layers of solder.

Carbon fiber has great tensile strength, but sucks in compression and shear. Ask the folks on that home-made submersible that now rests next to the Titanic.

There are industry standards for different types of carbon fiber. How parts/components are made with it is another thing.

50% of the Boeing 787 is composite. I got a quick tour of the facility in SC in 2017. Impressive. How is that working out? No idea. Boeing has other problems.

"Lochridge, who was not an engineer, had refused to accept safety concerns from OceanGate's engineering team and that his evaluation of Titan's hull demonstrated it was strong enough. Third-party evaluations were unnecessary." It all seems like fun until you get crushed.

 

[Chuck Noris]

What printing parameters are you using? My prints rarely show layer lines. My initial frame 18 months ago was REALLY bad, I used regular PLA and standard printer parameters. Printed in about 8 hours. It failed after 3 rounds, but I used extreme safety precautions and everything was fine. Since then, I've done a lot of trial and error, and my go-to filament for frames (Glock and AR) is Polymaker Fiberon PA6-CF20. The strength is excellent, but I highly recommend annealing at 180F for 6-8 hours (per Polymaker recommendations). There is a lot of discussion about this on Reddit in the fosscad thread, and on Odysee. I've done G26, G43, G19, G20. Some need some tweaking and troubleshooting, but overall they work VERY well, and function nicely on the range. I've attached a few pictures. The brown frames are PLA-CF, which prints nicely but isn't as durable as PLA-Pro (PLA-Plus). I use that occassionally now for accessories like braces. I like the PA6-CF20 for 10/22 receivers, very durable. I don't like the glass fiber filament, I tried several prints with different parameters and it still warps.