Breaking! Almost All Glocks Discontinued!

[FrankenGlock]

Well, yes. That's correct. And my kid is smarter! How did you know?

I do think my triggers are better than OEM Glock. And when I install a billet firing pin and extractor, I think that's more reliable than a Glock OEM MIM version. I have broken a MIM firing pin and that's not something I ever want to do again.

100% to all.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Well, yes. That's correct. And my kid is smarter! How did you know?

I do think my triggers are better than OEM Glock. And when I install a billet firing pin and extractor, I think that's more reliable than a Glock OEM MIM version. I have broken a MIM firing pin and that's not something I ever want to do again.

I've put Johnny Glock triggers on a few. Mostly because I just felt like it. I'm not a trigger snob at all. Triggers are very subjective.

When I played baseball, including college ball, there was a constant, ongoing debate that raged since I was in little league. It was: Who makes the best glove?

There is no right answer. Rawlings, Wilson, Easton, Franklin, Spalding, Mizuno. When anyone asked me, it was the Wilson A2000. Hands down. A baseball glove is like a gun. A good glove is important. But it makes no one a great baseball player. Was it better than its peers? Not really. I just preferred it.

The same rule applies to golf clubs.

My kid is a very good golfer. 12 handicap. He can beat anybody here.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Oh yeah! I forgot! My kids are waaaaaay smarter! LOL!


Yeah... it was a bit disturbing when that happened to me.

I've also had a trigger spring break on my factory Glock 19.

Pilot error

 

[meistermash]

I shoot a double action revolver modestly well.
Most usually I don't notice the difference in a pistol trigger.
Well unless it takes both fingers to yank it back.

Back in the day I owned a Browning Dual Mode 9mm pistol.
Try as I might, that was horrible.
That one you could switch from d/sa to d/d action.
Neither was anything but heavy and heavier.
Nice pistol otherwise.

I and some other folks endured a lecture by some smart assed middle aged character in the lgs one day.
It was about why the single action army was a superior combat pistol and why it was better than any puny 9mm.
That was free entertainment.

Was out shooting one day and this other fellow's son had some flavor of 9mm out lighting up the scenery.
I tossed out a soda bottle, and watched him run a whole magazine at it.
So I grabbed the truck revolver, an old m10 Smith royal Hong Kong police marked 38.
I tagged that with most of the cylinder double action fast as I could pull the trigger, speed loaded and chased that bottle out to about 50 yards.
Boys dad said, and that's how that shits done.

Got a friend that just bought himself a problem.
A Block 20 with custom slide, ported 10mm
Who knows what all is wrong with that one.
He's broken two strikers.
I didn't want to know after "custom" was mentioned.
I am sure it was some kind of "Deal".
Guy should know better he into his 60's.

 

[One Ping Only]

Photographers.... they are a sensitive bunch.

Snort. Hehehe Today in the DSLR age, the question is actually more legitimate than ever, though. In the years past with SLR it was all about what 35mm film (and brand), glass, photographer, darkroom.

Today it's glass, sensor (BRAND of camera), photographer skills, post processing. So WHY does the brand matter today? Because each company has their own color cast & other characteristics baked-in to the sensor, not to mention the sensor's other intrinsic attributes that they are using.

ie, Nikon has a different color profile than Canon, and so forth. The both take great pictures, but each have their own signature "look" to them. Over the past 20 years they have refined this more and more. All part of the modern photography game. And DSLR's still kick the crap out of cellphone cameras. always will.

 

[Racer88]

And DSLR's still kick the crap out of cellphone cameras. always will.

Today it's glass, sensor (BRAND of camera), photographer skills, post processing.

Of course it's 95% the photographer's skills. Having skills and knowledge of LIGHTING, composition, exposure, etc... is 99% of the game.

Yeah... I try to explain to folks why the "megapixels" in your phone camera mean squat when the image is coming through that little tiny chip of a "lens." Real cameras have real lenses (aka "glass"). And the size and quality of the glass makes a HUGE difference in the image quality. No amount of "megapixels" can help with a shitty lens.

That said... for the purposes of MOST people, their phone cameras will suffice.

You can have the best audio player, amplifier, etc.... but the sound you hear can be only as good as the speakers.

 

[One Ping Only]

Of course it's 95% the photographer's skills. Having skills and knowledge of LIGHTING, composition, exposure, etc... is 99% of the game.

No argument from me.

Having said that- like a good recipe, all ingredients play a part, and can make a difference if omitted or replaced. One can reason the same analogy for a good kitchen. Of course it's ultimately the chef. Yet other factors are the ingredients that compose the finished product.

"I want glass. Lots of glass." Always. But what's behind it (mirror or not, sensor, firmware, etc) , up to and including who is pressing the shutter...all part of the finished product.

Having said all that, the analogy "a bad mechanic always blames his tools" applies to any craft.

FWIW, my pics I post here always look serviceable-but-not-great because I put moderate effort into them with my iPhone other than trying to capture decent light ( I have no Lightbox, tools, etc) and usually stage the sidearm in a window sill, outside on the deck rail, or a down & dirty pic at my workstation under LED desk light and maybe some ambient natural light from the side window. hehe

Maybe I'll snag a Lightbox setup in the near future.

Oh- my missus just made a stellar Banana Nut Bread with about 45% less brown sugar- the load turned out delicious, but the impact of less brown sugar in the recipe DID in fact make a difference. Not just in sweetness, but the overall flavor that brown sugar brings to the party.

And I DID get my water line winterizing & insulation replacement on a PVC line that the chickens ripped to shreds, done outside between cloudbursts, WOOT!

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Having a "factory" Glock, or some other brand, keeps me from the headline, Fatal shooting using a gun.

 

[k3nny173]

I'll concede that there are some nice Glock clones in the market now, but I stop short of claiming they are better. The question is what defines better. No two people will agree on what that is. One thing is certain. Clones are not more accurate or more reliable than a factory Glock.

So your position is that there isn't any way an aftermarket barrel in a clone could be more accurate than an OEM glock one?

Not even a custom fitted Match Bar Sto? Assume the gunsmith fitted it correctly per Bar Sto instructions.

Fits Glock 17L 9mm - Bar-Sto

barsto.com

That is a bold claim

I agree 'better' is ridiculously subjective, and I hate when someone says 'better' and doesn't define that

My glock clone is better than a real glock
vs
My glock clone has a better grip angle because it has the 18 degree angle of a 1911 that feels better with my limp wristed shoot style rather than the 22 degree glock grip angle that makes my pussy hurt.

The guy who painstakingly built his own Glock clone - or 10 of them. - is going to defend his work to the death. I get it. In reality, it's like the parent who thinks their kid is smarter or better looking than all the other kids. There's no point in arguing with them.

this is funny to me because the majority of my P80s had problems that needed to be worked out, the regular guys I shoot with at the range would hide behind cover when I said I got a new P80 and this is the first live fire mag [ooks left and right and watched everyone run for cover]

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Both Apple and Samsung run ads that suggest the cameras on their phones are capable of delivering professional quality.

Kind of like gun kit parts

Paraphrasing Robert palmer:

You would like to think you're immune to the stuff.
Might as well face it you're addicted to love Glock clones.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

So your position is that there isn't any way an aftermarket barrel in a clone could be more accurate than an OEM glock one?

Not even a custom fitted Match Bar Sto? Assume the gunsmith fitted it correctly per Bar Sto instructions.

Fits Glock 17L 9mm - Bar-Sto

barsto.com

That is a bold claim

I agree 'better' is ridiculously subjective, and I hate when someone says 'better' and doesn't define that

My glock clone is better than a real glock
vs
My glock clone has a better grip angle because it has the 18 degree angle of a 1911 that feels better with my limp wristed shoot style rather than the 22 degree glock grip angle that makes my pussy hurt.



this is funny to me because the majority of my P80s had problems that needed to be worked out, the regular guys I shoot with at the range would hide behind cover when I said I got a new P80 and this is the first live fire mag [ooks left and right and watched everyone run for cover]

Yep. That's my position, which may be unpopular with some. Yet others will get their butt puckered over this point of view. There is no such thing as a match barrel. There are good, well made barrels and bad barrels. Likewise, there are guns that are fitted correctly and those that are not.

There is no 'spec' for what qualifies as a match barrel on any handgun. It's marketing. Match barrels may look nicer, be dehorned or otherwise detailed, have a nice crown. But at the end of the day they really don't make a difference vs. factory barrels when it comes to shooting performance or reliability.

I would liken 'upgrade' parts, especially for striker guns, to expensive German Wera box wrenches vs. Chinese made Husky. One looks nicer hanging on the garage wall but they both remove the same nut in the same manner. The Wera doesnt improve on the business of tightening or loosening a nut. But nobody brags about their Husky wrenches.

On the higher end, consider Nighthawk and Wilson Combat. There are others like Cabot, but just for the sake of conversation lets stick with those two. Both Nighthawk and Wilson are hand fitted using the best quality materials and parts. Is one better than the other? Only if you believe it is. It can't be proven.

Most mass produced guns like the Glock have tolerances that make hand fitting and break in typical to a fancier gun like a high end 1911 unnecessary. I challenge the need for putting an expensive barrel in a mass produced striker gun like a Glock and expecting it to be a huge upgrade. My opinion is it's a waste of money - if your goal is to improve the gun.

That said, if you upgrade because it's fun and you enjoy it... that's another thing all together.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

the regular guys I shoot with at the range would hide behind cover when I said I got a new P80 and this is the first live fire mag [ooks left and right and watched everyone run for cover]

I should have responded to this. Agree 100% there are people on the other pole of the gun world who despise P80's and other DIY guns, proclaiming them all junk. There are quite a few of those opinions on GT.

They are no less ridiculous than the zealots who convince themselves they are smarter than all the designers and engineers at Glock or Springfield or S&W.

Haters gotta hate. Dickheads gotta be dickheads.

I've put together 15 + P80s, 80% Arms, Daggers, SCT, etc. I'm really not a critic of DIY PMFs. I simply take a rational view of how these guns stack up to factory guns in terms or performance and reliability.

I rest in between the two extreme groups - lovers and haters - and tend to avoid them both. Like this guy, who I'm certain imagines himself as a warrior and gun expert. You can find him and his kin on any gun forum. .




PS - My lasagna is better than everyone else's lasagna.

 

[Racer88]

Both Apple and Samsung run ads that suggest the cameras on their phones are capable of delivering professional quality.

Kind of like gun kit parts

Paraphrasing Robert palmer:

You would like to think you're immune to the stuff.
Might as well face it you're addicted to love Glock clones.

They need to bring back MTV "Classic." Just run the MUSIC videos from the 80s and 90s. I think it would be a hit.

 

[Racer88]

Agree 100% there are people on the other pole of the gun world who despise P80's and other DIY guns, proclaiming them all junk. There are quite a few of those opinions on GT.

Of course, those guys are objectively wrong. But it makes them feel important. I have fun with the guys who apparently strongly believe you can only have ONE gun.... either a PMF OR a factory Glock. They believe that those who build a P80 are doing it INSTEAD of buying a Glock - presumably to save money. LOL! You can only pick ONE! Nooooooooooope! That's not how I roll!

I enjoy reminding them that the correct answer to "this one or that one?" is BOTH! I have been lucky enough to be able to enjoy "this one, that one, the other one, and those too!"

My "junk" P80 builds have 16,549 rounds through them collectively. My "junk" EDC build has 10,209 rounds through it. I must not be doing it right!

Haters gotta hate. Dickheads gotta be dickheads.

And it's easy and safe to do on the interwebz. Again, it gives them a sense of significance.

I rest in between the two extreme groups - lovers and haters - and tend to avoid them both.

Same. I'm not a "fan-boi" of anything. My problem is I like them all equally! I like my factory Glocks. I like my P80 builds. I like my FNH guns. I like my S&W. My Colts. My Rugers. Mossberg. Chiappa. Browning. Kel-Tec. Harrington & Richardson. And my latest... an air rifle by Benjamin.

Like this guy, who I'm certain imagines himself as a warrior and gun expert. You can find him and his kin on any gun forum.

See those guys at the range, too.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Every DIY gun I put together cost more than buying a new G19 or G17.

 

[Racer88]

Every DIY gun I put together cost more than buying a new G19 or G17.

Same. Some double or more.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

They need to bring back MTV "Classic." Just run the MUSIC videos from the 80s and 90s. I think it would be a hit.

Some things are best left in the past. I can't unsee this.

There is a parallel to this thread. Some gun people truly believe they are hot. It's not about the little black dress.


I dont want to be cruel. These ladies are definitely Arkansas hot. Which is not like New York or LA hot.

 

[k3nny173]

Yep. That's my position, which may be unpopular with some. Yet others will get their butt puckered over this point of view. There is no such thing as a match barrel. There are good, well made barrels and bad barrels. Likewise, there are guns that are fitted correctly and those that are not.

There is no 'spec' for what qualifies as a match barrel on any handgun. It's marketing. Match barrels may look nicer, be dehorned or otherwise detailed, have a nice crown. But at the end of the day they really don't make a difference vs. factory barrels when it comes to shooting performance or reliability.

I would liken 'upgrade' parts, especially for striker guns, to expensive German Wera box wrenches vs. Chinese made Husky. One looks nicer hanging on the garage wall but they both remove the same nut in the same manner. The Wera doesnt improve on the business of tightening or loosening a nut. But nobody brags about their Husky wrenches.

On the higher end, consider Nighthawk and Wilson Combat. There are others like Cabot, but just for the sake of conversation lets stick with those two. Both Nighthawk and Wilson are hand fitted using the best quality materials and parts. Is one better than the other? Only if you believe it is. It can't be proven.

Most mass produced guns like the Glock have tolerances that make hand fitting and break in typical to a fancier gun like a high end 1911 unnecessary. I challenge the need for putting an expensive barrel in a mass produced striker gun like a Glock and expecting it to be a huge upgrade. My opinion is it's a waste of money - if your goal is to improve the gun.

That said, if you upgrade because it's fun and you enjoy it... that's another thing all together.

I am specifically speaking of Bar Sto, their definition of 'match' means the barrel has to be fitted to the gun, its not a drop in, that's all. You can use more generic definitions of 'match' but that wasn't my intent and why I gave a specific example.

That said, I have a $30 barrel that shoots amazing for no reason I can determine, I have other barrels that don't shoot as well that cost 3-4 times, my conclusion is that there is something to barrel manufacturing that I can't measure that is a factor in how accurate it is. I might have purchased the 1 barrel in 500 of the cheap ones that actually worked right

I play around with PMFs because they are fun and I enjoy them and they were a huge learning experience for me. I built my first in 2018. What I learned after that is the Glock design is genius and it works well when assembled correctly, even if you install those parts in a piece of polymer that wasn't made by Glock.

I can't make anything other than anecdotal comments on reliability. I don't have millions of my PMFs in circulation like glock, but once I got a PMF reliable, it remained reliable.

I have been active in a lot of pistol competitions in the last 5 years, Anywhere from 30 to 90 shooters at each. Guns from a wide range of manufactures and of all types (including revolvers).

I can say I have seen one of everything fail in that time. Glocks, glock clones, Sigs, Springfields, 1911s, 2011s, higher end custom guns, revolvers, you name it I saw someone in a competition somewhere lose a stage because the gun malfunctioned. This includes me and my PMFs. What I don't know in every case is the why part, was the gun just neglected, dirty or what? bad ammo? no idea. I only know why mine failed and all were my own stupidity

 

[k3nny173]

Every DIY gun I put together cost more than buying a new G19 or G17.

For most buyers, yes, the first one I ever built I paid more. As time went on, and the P80 craze grew, the prices came down.

When you buy frames for $55 and barrels for $30, there was a time when building a P80 cost less than buying an OEM glock

Example of one deal I took advantage of from gun deals. This was for fully built serialized frames.

No screen shots, but there was a time when Midway USA was selling oem glock lower parts kits and upper parts kits for really cheap.

I also bought new slides for $70

 

[FrankenGlock]

For most buyers, yes, the first one I ever built I paid more. As time went on, and the P80 craze grew, the prices came down.

When you buy frames for $55 and barrels for $30, there was a time when building a P80 cost less than buying an OEM glock

Example of one deal I took advantage of from gun deals. This was for fully built serialized frames.

View attachment 35865

View attachment 35866


No screen shots, but there was a time when Midway USA was selling oem glock lower parts kits and upper parts kits for really cheap.

I also bought new slides for $70

I can build them really cheaply but there are some clone manufacturers that can sell with a profit for my build costs. Granted, they are using cheaper internals than I would use but it’s still impressive they can sell for what they do and remain profitable.

Polymer frames must be really inexpensive to make as I’ve purchased plenty of the SCT frames in the $30 range and those went from manufacturer to seller to buyer so two levels of margins. However, wish I would have just gone with the PSA Dagger S frames instead as they feel and look better to me. Either way and back on topic, if these small time manufacturers can build and sell at their price point, you know the larger manufacturers are seeing an even bigger economy of scale and can really get their costs per unit down. Glock’s margins have got to be in the 70 to 80% range as they manufacture everything. It amazes me that people would pay that kind of money for a gun with so many cheap components.