How hard IS it to build a 1911 from an 80% kit?

NavyVette said:
This video might show how to use the jig all the way through
gunstreamer.com

Stealth Arms 1911 80% Phantom Jig

Here is a review of a Stealth Arms 1911 Phantom Jig. Got an 80% 1911 aluminum frame? No mill? No problem. These cutters can also cut steel. Check out my other video on results of cutting a steel frame. Stealth Arms have
gunstreamer.com gunstreamer.com

I don't have access to the drawings right now, but I would not know if they are good enough :)
Click to expand...
Heck I never have seen that website before. That might just be the video I need to see.

Thanks
 
NavyVette said:
This video might show how to use the jig all the way through
gunstreamer.com

Stealth Arms 1911 80% Phantom Jig

Here is a review of a Stealth Arms 1911 Phantom Jig. Got an 80% 1911 aluminum frame? No mill? No problem. These cutters can also cut steel. Check out my other video on results of cutting a steel frame. Stealth Arms have
gunstreamer.com gunstreamer.com

I don't have access to the drawings right now, but I would not know if they are
Click to expand...

Here is some drawings that are accurate:

https://sightm1911.com/blueprint/m1911a1_blue.pdf

third page of the PDF is the frame with dimensions and tolerances.
 
The entire thread was really helpful. I have also been debating building a 1911. It's been on my to-do list for quite a while. I have done my own modifications to handguns and long guns for a long time and have built two AR15 and one AR10 from 80% lowers. But it wasn't until I ran across Racer88 that I decided to come here and build some 80% striker guns.

I'm going to kick this off in the fall. I have a busy summer planned. I like to get all the parts ready to go before I start a project. I guess the time has come and I should start ordering.

I am not a machinist but have a small Grizzly vertical mill that I taught myself to use. I used it to make simple parts for antique motorcycles and scooters that I collect and restore. I tend to dive into the deep end of the pool when something captures my interest.
 
Even with the drawings in hand, I still recommend having a working 1911 available as a reference. The reason is simple, it is a sanity check when something doesn't fit your frame.

A lot of quality 1911 parts are deliberately made out of spec to be hand fitted by a gunsmith. That sounds a little crazy, but makes sense if you look at it from the gunsmith's perspective.... they usually are repairing well worn or damaged pistols, or trying to achieve a tighter fit than the tolerances would provide. Hence, they want the extra material present and already know they have to work the part down to match the specific pistol being worked on.

For example, you take your machined 1911 frame and a brand new hammer spring housing and try to put them together... and it doesn't fit. So you take the reference pistol's hammer spring housing and try that.. if it fits, then the problem is the brand new hammer spring housing. Then you can break out the calipers and figure out what needs to come off the housing to fit into both frames. It just saves you a lot of time and head scratching.

And well, a used commercial clone 1911, like the Rock Island I used, is still a pretty inexpensive firearm and is accurately made. It is about a $450 ish pistol in GI configuration, and will probably stay at that price point for a long time, since it is effectively an "as issued" M1911 without being a sought after collectors item. It will never command the markup in price, unlike say a US Gov Property marked Union Switch & Signal 1911 would.

Edit: Come to think of it, just think of the reference pistol as a parts kit that comes assembled ;) You are going to need nearly everything in it during the course of your build, so just borrow it from the reference 1911 and install it into your frame.

Another good reference is Jerry Kuhnhausen's "The Colt .45 Automatic: A Shop Manual vol. 1" which goes into a great deal of detail on why the parts are shaped the way they are. It is written by a gunsmith for other gunsmiths to use when working on 1911's
 
Last edited:
One other thought that I would throw out there to a first-time builder of a 80% 1911... There are only five parts that get installed on the frame and should never need to be removed again. The plunger tube and the four grip screw bushings. Once those are on the frame, they need to stay on the frame. That's why they are staked in place during the installation. (when I work on one with buggered up grip screw bushings, I usually loc-tite the threads during installation, making them even harder to remove later on.)

So, if you use the "get a reference pistol as a parts kit" approach to building a 1911, here is what you would actually be buying for the build:

80% frame in the material of choice (steel, stainless steel, or aluminum)
The requisite finishing jigs for the frame.
New plunger tube
New Grip Screw Bushings
And the working reference pistol.

Two other parts are handy to have as new ones.. the ejector and the ejector roll pin. They are removable, but are kind of a pain in the ass to take off and put back on, so getting new ones makes sense...they are cheap and easy parts to get.

Now, as you build, you are transferring the parts from the reference frame onto the 80% frame. When you are done, you have a working 1911 on the 80% frame, and you have a stripped commercial frame. If money is tight... you can sell the stripped commercial frame on Gunbroker. It is still legally transferable. It has the serial number and makers markings, so any FFL will transfer it. You'll probably get $150 to $200 for just that part. Or, now that you have a really good knowledge base on the 1911, you can start accumulating the parts to rebuild the commercial pistol back into a working one. So you end up with two 1911's... because "two is one, and one is none." ;)

This approach is kinda like buying a pawn shop Glock or PSA Dagger for doing that first Polymer80 build. You know you can stop at any point, back up, and still have a working pistol. The commercially made pistol is just a parts kit that you know works, so there are less unknowns to figure out during your build.
 
Last edited:
You have an interesting idea. I never thought about buying a used one as basically a parts kit or just a reference.

Roughly how many parts are out of spec when purchased new? I get them being out of spec for a gunsmith to get a true perfect fit. I actually like that idea. But I also realize without some experience and knowing what parts will need that fitment would be tough. But as you said I guess if you had a reference as a target it gets you in the ballpark.
 
axkiker said:
You have an interesting idea. I never thought about buying a used one as basically a parts kit or just a reference.

Roughly how many parts are out of spec when purchased new? I get them being out of spec for a gunsmith to get a true perfect fit. I actually like that idea. But I also realize without some experience and knowing what parts will need that fitment would be tough. But as you said I guess if you had a reference as a target it gets you in the ballpark.
Click to expand...

Pins, springs, detents, dicsonnector, and magazine catches are usually right on spec and will drop into any properly made 1911

Parts that usually require fitting. Hammer spring housings, takedown lever, grip safeties, triggers, thumb safety, and hammer & sear combos.
 
clm2112 said:
Pins, springs, detents, dicsonnector, and magazine catches are usually right on spec and will drop into any properly made 1911

Parts that usually require fitting. Hammer spring housings, takedown lever, grip safeties, triggers, thumb safety, and hammer & sear combos.
Click to expand...
Hummmmmm Man im getting the itch.

Go to Jig Mfg ?
 
clm2112 said:
I still recommend having a working 1911 available as a reference.
Click to expand...
I did that with my first Polymer 80, which was at the dreaded 76% type. I bought a serialized frame to use as a reference.
 
I did 1 thing that helped me out immensely while cutting my frames with that kit. I put a spring, on the adjustment bolt so that it would stay in place as you start cutting. There wasn't enough tension for me and I had difficulties keeping my adjuster in the same spot so its worked fine ever since
 
clm2112 said:
With an aluminum frame, it isn't hard. The jigs that work like a woodworking plane to cut the slide rails work because the aluminum cuts easily in thin slices.

With a steel frame, well, think milling machine. That is how I made mine, on a mill using keyway cutters, custom mill bit, and common end mill bits.

It also helps to have a working 1911 that you can measure and compare to as you sneek up on the final dimensions. (it is kinda surprising to amount of hand fitting all the parts of a 1911 take.)

Some photos of my build... setting up the frame in the mill, checking parts interchange with the reference pistol (a Rock Island M1911) and the finished frame on a Mech-Tech CCU. As you can see from the date stamps in the photos, the entire process took a month to complete.
Click to expand...
I looked into this a while back. It looks like fun. I don't have any of the machines to do one of these. If I was going to build six or seven or so, maybe I could justify tooling up.
Instead I bought myself an SA Garrison.
 
Ragwing said:
I looked into this a while back. It looks like fun. I don't have any of the machines to do one of these. If I was going to build six or seven or so, maybe I could justify tooling up.
Instead I bought myself an SA Garrison.
Click to expand...
When I think "it looks fun" I re-read this:

Specifically, "More importantly, though, it sounded like fun. (I'll pause while those of you who have built a 1911 finish laughing.)"

I still think it sounds fun, so I am still going to do it :)
 
NavyVette said:
When I think "it looks fun" I re-read this:

Specifically, "More importantly, though, it sounded like fun. (I'll pause while those of you who have built a 1911 finish laughing.)"

I still think it sounds fun, so I am still going to do it :)
Click to expand...

It all comes down to whether you like doing traditional white-smith work. If you do, then it is fun. If it frustrates you, then do yourself a favor and pass a project like this by.

I happen to like doing this kinda work, so for me it was fun. And, yes, I might do it again at some point.

It can be frustrating at times. My worst week of doing the work was fitting a set of Browning B25 barrels that came in the white. (I had a 1966 Superposed Broadway and I wanted a carrier barrel for running sub-gauge tubes. A dual use trap/skeet gun.) It was very hard fitting a second set of barrels into the over-under receiver without altering the receiver and effecting the fit of the original barrels. This is about as bad as traditional gun-smithing can get. Smoke the barrels, try to fit, remove a little bit of metal with jewelers files.... repeat....over....and over....and over. No power tools. All hand work. There is a reason the folks at FN charged so so much for multi-barrel sets.

So, a steel 1911 doesn't seem so bad.... and kinda fun.
 
Last edited:
clm2112 said:
It all comes down to whether you like doing traditional white-smith work. If you do, then it is fun. If it frustrates you, then do yourself a favor and pass a project like this by.

I happen to like doing this kinda work, so for me it was fun. And, yes, I might do it again at some point.

It can be frustrating at times. My worst week of doing the work was fitting a set of Browning B25 barrels that came in the white. (I had a 1966 Superposed Broadway and I wanted a carrier barrel for running sub-gauge tubes. A dual use trap/skeet gun.) It was very hard fitting a second set of barrels into the over-under receiver without altering the receiver and effecting the fit of the original barrels. This is about as bad as traditional gun-smithing can get. Smoke the barrels, try to fit, remove a little bit of metal with jewelers files.... repeat....over....and over....and over. No power tools. All hand work. There is a reason the folks at FN charged so so much for multi-barrel sets.

So, a steel 1911 doesn't seem so bad.... and kinda fun.
Click to expand...
Fusion Firearms has started producing their steel 80% frames again.
 
I've completely disassembled 1911s countless times but never built one from a box-o-parts. I'm seriously thinking about doing a serialized Fusion kit first. Acclimating myself to the fitting process that you typically don't do when you buy a factory-made gun. I've done some very minor 1911 fitting. Mostly just barrel and trigger upgrades. I'd be more comfortable taking on an 80% frame after completing that project. Fusion kits look like a good place to start.
 
Bongo Lewi said:
I've completely disassembled 1911s countless times but never built one from a box-o-parts. I'm seriously thinking about doing a serialized Fusion kit first. Acclimating myself to the fitting process that you typically don't do when you buy a factory-made gun. I've done some very minor 1911 fitting. Mostly just barrel and trigger upgrades. I'd be more comfortable taking on an 80% frame after completing that project. Fusion kits look like a good place to start.
Click to expand...
They make a nice 1911. Very tight fit, and no MIM parts
 
RagnoROOK said:
They make a nice 1911. Very tight fit, and no MIM parts
Click to expand...
With 1911’s I prefer forged innards. I’ve had a few Kimbers (aka MIMbers) but won’t buy another. MIM parts can be done well if the manufacturing and QA is done well, but in some cases it’s not. There was no MIM in Browning’s day. I’ll stick with what’s worked for 100 years. :)

Striker guns designed from the ground up to utilize some MIM parts… I’ve had no issues.
 
The issue with the MIM in this case is that what you see is what you get. Specifically the issue is that the parts must be run as is without altering them in any way. The finish on the MIM parts also hardens the outer metal, creating a durable shell around a part made of sintered dust. That inner metal is very soft and any altering of parts will cause significant drag and slow the action.

So if it works great when you buy your ignition kit, then you’re off to the range, but if you encounter any issue from burrs, machining marks, etc, you’re up shit creek.
 
Last edited:
In restoring a Sig P6, I could not find a source for the unique forged hammer they put on that model. See pic. A P225 hammer would work fine and they were readily available, but it is a MIM part and didn’t have a hole and slot shown in the photo below. I bought two and cracked them trying to replicate that hole and slot. In the process, I muttered obscenities that would make a Marine Corps drill instructor blush.
IMG_0001.jpeg
 
Back
Top