Polymer80 may survive the court battle but not their own reputation....

[CECannonJr]

Does the data include information about why the person was stopped and what the charges were? What I am wondering is are these folks are otherwise law-abiding and stopped for something minor like a traffic violation and arrested because they have the PMF or are these gang bangers involved in a shoot out that got caught with a PMF?

To @Racer88 question, these stats should be reviewed along with arrest information for serialized guns as well as for serialized guns which have had the SN removed. If stats are not being kept for SN removed, then that could be a point to bring up to the legislature - the need to track such data. In addition to the "reason for arrest" I asked above, if PMF arrests are down 50% in 2024 but arrests involving serialized weapons are similarly down, then one would argue arrests went down vs a law against PMFs having anything to do with it.

I have yet to see ANY data. just hyperbole and BULLSHIT.

 

[Hvymax]

I have yet to see ANY data. just hyperbole and BULLSHIT.

You are incapable of reason. You are welcome to look into the Charles County Police Blotter for the last 3 years and compile them yourself. We have people monitoring this crap in every county along with all of the other gun crimes in the state. We can't come up with an argument against the BS restrictions without accurate data. Enjoy Muh Rites while you can. You make me wonder why I bother.

 

[CECannonJr]

I never said that they were predominantly involved in crime. They are substantially involved in crime. I live in a semi rural/suburban county. I'm sure if I compiled statewide data there would be over 1,000. In a perfect world it would have no effect on our Rights but that's not what we have. America as intended ceased somewhere in the last 60 years. Only a Moral and Educated Population can be trusted with Rights. Living in Maryland I agree that anyone who would elect Democrats is incapable of being trusted with Rights at all. The Human Termites are flooding into the Conservative States and most are hanging by a thread. With the Southern Border situation we have less than 2 years till the Majority flips and it's Game Over America.
You want a freaking Builder!!! My jigs have hundreds each. My Build parties were the biggest. I've helped and enabled hundreds of people with their builds. I've fought tooth and nail for our rights in the Legislatures and on the streets.

"You want a freaking Builder!!! My jigs have hundreds each. My Build parties were the biggest. I've helped and enabled hundreds of people with their builds. I've fought tooth and nail for our rights in the Legislatures and on the streets."

I don't believe this. Period.

455 posts since 11 November. That level of forum activity is highly unusual. It seems like being here is your "job".

No way have you had huge build parties and helped "hundreds" with their builds. I'm calling BULLSHIT. You don't have time to do all you claim to do.

Face it. With your outlandish claims, you will not ever gain the credibility here that you are putting an over the top effort into gaining.

Game over.

 

[Hvymax]

"You want a freaking Builder!!! My jigs have hundreds each. My Build parties were the biggest. I've helped and enabled hundreds of people with their builds. I've fought tooth and nail for our rights in the Legislatures and on the streets."

I don't believe this. Period.

455 posts since 11 November. That level of forum activity is highly unusual. It seems like being here is your "job".

No way have you had huge build parties and helped "hundreds" with their builds. I'm calling BULLSHIT. You don't have time to do all you claim to do.

Face it. With your outlandish claims, you will not ever gain the credibility here that you are putting an over the top effort into gaining.

Game over.

I'm retired so I have a little more time than most. Arguing with useless keyboard NOTHING'S probably accounts for a substantial amount of it. The time I wasted yesterday kept me from running a bunch of times drills in my yard.

 

[Hvymax]

My 2013 AK build party

 

[CECannonJr]

I'm retired so I have a little more time than most. Arguing with useless keyboard NOTHING'S probably accounts for a substantial amount of it. The time I wasted yesterday kept me from running a bunch of times drills in my yard.

Your claims prove who the NOTHING is. Now, you add a "substantial" amount of time dedicated to being an argumentative "keyboard commander". There's more data that supports calling BULLSHIT.

This is a good forum. Stop fucking it up.

Go plan your next Jan 6 "insurrection".

 

[CECannonJr]

My 2013 AK build party

Proves NOTHING.

 

[Racer88]

I'm sure if I compiled statewide data there would be over 1,000.

Nope. I don't think you understand what I mean by data. 1,000 what? Every claim I've seen conflates PMFs and defaced factory guns together as "guns." There is no data for just PMFs. I know you keep SAYING that it's PMFs, but you offer absolutely ZERO proof. In my research and observations, NOBODY is reporting specifically on PMFs. Nobody in the entire country. They just call them "guns" or "untraceable guns," which includes factory guns with serial numbers removed.

There's a reason they are doing that, of course. You claim to have the data, but you've not cited any source or their methods for collecting the "data."

In a perfect world it would have no effect on our Rights but that's not what we have. America as intended ceased somewhere in the last 60 years.

No. That's what YOU have in YOUR miserable state. Don't export that shit to the rest of us, thank you very much. And don't do us any "favors" by being complicit in the proliferation of those lies. You get the tyranny you allow in Marlyandistan. Don't assume the rest of us who live in Free states are going to fold like those in your state.

Only a Moral and Educated Population can be trusted with Rights. Living in Maryland I agree that anyone who would elect Democrats is incapable of being trusted with Rights at all.

There ya go. You have bought into the Maryland philosophy. I truly believe that YOU TRULY BELIEVE that only certain people can be trusted with Rights. You have been indoctrinated by virtue of all that time being repressed and having your Rights subverted by your "leaders" in Marylandistan. You actually believe that Rights should be applied selectively. You literally said it, and that disqualifies you as a defender or advocate for the Constitution and Freedom, IMO.

 

[CECannonJr]

Nope. I don't think you understand what I mean by data. 1,000 what? Every claim I've seen conflates PMFs and defaced factory guns together as "guns." There is no data for just PMFs. I know you keep SAYING that it's PMFs, but you offer absolutely ZERO proof. In my research and observations, NOBODY is reporting specifically on PMFs. Nobody in the entire country. They just call them "guns" or "untraceable guns," which includes factory guns with serial numbers removed.

There's a reason they are doing that, of course. You claim to have the data, but you've not cited any source or their methods for collecting the "data."


No. That's what YOU have in YOUR miserable state. Don't export that shit to the rest of us, thank you very much. And don't do us any "favors" by being complicit in the proliferation of those lies.


There ya go. You have bought into the Maryland philosophy. I truly believe that YOU TRULY BELIEVE that only certain people can be trusted with Rights. You have been indoctrinated by virtue of all that time being repressed and having your Rights subverted by your "leaders" in Marylandistan. You actually believe that Rights should be applied selectively. You literally said it, and that disqualifies you as a defender or advocate for the Constitution and Freedom.

There's a reason that belief came through. It's called training. Believing that rights should be applied selectively is a hallmark trait ingrained in a couple of 3 letter agencies I can think of.

My original assessment was spot on. Always trust your gut.

 

[JCinPA]

Holy crap! This went 4 pages after last night? Gotta admit I’m not reading it. I’m beyond worrying about gun laws at this point. Flat out DGAF anymore. We are at that point in our country. If the other side doesn’t respect the law? Then screw ‘em, neither do I. Two can play that game.

 

[Hvymax]

What should I expect from plastic toy"builders"? Grow a lathe. Maybe even a mill. 6th grade skill level that wouldn't know which end of a screwdriver to use. This is what real builders do!!!.

 

[brian]

Probably 60+ percent traffic stops with drugs and PMF's. This is data directly from the publicly available police blotter. Quite a few were kids in school with them. Some armed robberies etc. Compiled by people in the state 2A organizations in preparation for the upcoming Legislative Session. I know just cover your head and scream la la la all you want. I doubt these will come up this year because they pretty thoroughly banned these from the state to the point that nobody is going to touch them commercially. I could technically go out of state and get one and would have 30days from completion to get it engraved and logged by an FFL. You guys are delusional if you think no ineligible people were making these with criminal intent. I know Muh Rites won't be Infringed!!! Try that in Court.

Ultimately the battle becomes how to convince lawmakers that people are the problem not the tool. We can remove PMFs from the conversation and talk about Glock Switches. A civilian converting a weapon to full auto is illegal and nothing about it being illegal has stopped it from happening. LEOs are "stuck" with prosecuting the offenders when they are caught. I am guessing the guy on his farm running a Glock Switch doesn't appear on radar if he is quiet about it - i.e. it is the criminal act that get attention.

I have brought up similar points that @Racer88 does about the other Amendments. It doesn't give you an answer per se, but perhaps part of the answer is to "educate" law makers about how society has evolved and firearms just happen to be part of it. The illustration of how easy it is for someone to communicate with the world via Facebook, Twitter et. al. does not diminish the 1st Amendment. The ability of police to use Thermal cameras does not diminish the 4th & 5th (i.e. they can't just use it on your home) - even using a drone to see areas not able to be seen publicly isn't ok.

 

[Racer88]

What should I expect from plastic toy"builders"? Grow a lathe. Maybe even a mill. 6th grade skill level that wouldn't know which end of a screwdriver to use. This is what real builders do!!!.

Ad hominem... the last resort for those who can't make their points.

The issue I think some of us are having is your seeming self-contradiction. On the one hand, you're a champion of the Constitution. On the other hand, you're toeing the anti-2A line by engaging and even corroborating their false arguments against the 2A.

You've also expressed your belief that Rights should be selectively "allowed." Hence, our confusion about where you really stand. Finally, you've implied that increasingly oppressive laws based on the behavior of criminals should be imposed on law-abiding peaceful productive citizens. Or at least that we have no choice or are "stuck" with it.

You have repeatedly expressed that you feel YOUR machining skills are the standard by which all PMF builders should operate and be measured. Implied that unless we have the skills and tools to machine guns from near-zero billet and wood... we shouldn't have PMFs... You know... "because 6th graders can do it." Anything else is "6th grade level." That's not going to win friends nor influence people.

 

[James Moore]

How do we protect our rights when they are blatantly being used by criminals to get around the restrictions against them?

Is this the slippery slope some people get worried about when the government starts infringing our rights?
Maybe the 4th amendment should only apply to adults.
Maybe felons should relinquish their 4th amendment rights all together.
Should fake news sites be denied their 1st amendment rights?
Maybe we should require background checks to take advantage of any Constitutional rights?
There has to be a way for the government to suppress the rights of the people.

We probably should disarm first though.

 

[jayman]

Hardly a day goes by where a few of these don't turn up in schools and drug stops locally. I could have seen myself being a 14yr old Lord of War if these things were available!!! At 15 I had made a pair of 0% Mac10's in shop class. I was fitting and assembling when the teacher realized what I was doing!!! After a year of essentially being banned they are starting to slow down to a few times a week. I'm an absolute believer in that if you're legal to own it you're legal to make it for personal use. But how do you keep them away from kids and criminals? We wouldn't need laws if people could act like they had any sense.

So you're blaming the gun/gunmaker/company for teens getting ahold of these, where, especially In California they have the strictest gun laws, instead of blaming the parent or guardian that's allowing these teens access to order and pay for P80s???.. if thats the case you sound like a lib tard and probably blame alcohol and cars for drunk driving crashes/fatalities. Should we blame McDonald's for diabetes and fat people too?.

 

[Bobster]

My 2013 AK build party

IF you are NOT a Fedboi, you are certainly going to be getting a visit by the MD State Police (with the help of ATF). "So WHERE exactly did you dump the guns in the Chesapeake?"

But I'm kidding around (mostly)... You ARE flexing a bit too hard to make your point (IMO) and makes me wonder why you feel the need to prove anything to the doubters. Fuck'em I say. If you are legit, you are legit and YOU know it. Personally, I would rather keep my shit under wraps--once on the internet, it is out there forever...

I kind of feel for you living in MD. I grew up and spent 30+ years in RI before moving to FL. Beautiful coastal state, not unlike MD with woods and hills further inland. Like MD, we had scumbag metros and conservative hinterlands. I was like you going to the state house and we would PACK the committee rooms with gunowners. We did pretty well and kept RI from becoming MA Lite with all of THEIR restrictions (even 25 years ago). I've had conversations about guns with Buddy Cianci former Provelone mayor (Dem turned Rep) and gave Gov. Almond a tour of our rifle club. My family wanted/needed me in FL so here I am. Sadly RI has gone downhill since then...

It pains me to see legal gunowners acting and ridiculing other gunowners. We need to be less vitriolic to each other, regardless of circumstance.

And to those who say "just move away from the shithole", it really is NOT that easy to move away. From anywhere... I was lucky and had the good fortune of family and support here in FL, but I left a lot of good friends up in RI...

 

[CECannonJr]

Never thought I would use it on this forum, but this guy gets the ignore button.

 

[Racer88]

IF you are NOT a Fedboi, you are certainly going to be getting a visit by the MD State Police (with the help of ATF). "So WHERE exactly did you dump the guns in the Chesapeake?"

But I'm kidding around (mostly)... You ARE flexing a bit too hard to make your point (IMO) and makes me wonder why you feel the need to prove anything to the doubters.

Repeatedly insulting us with, "What you're doing here, any 6th grader with a Dremel could do in an hour" isn't winning friends. And it's definitely not winning any credibility on his part.

Then he tops it off with expressing his desire to restrict Rights based on the behavior of criminals or even political party affiliation. That defies any definition of a Constitutionalist, as he simultaneously claims to be. It's self-contradictory. I believe that HE believes he's a true 2A supporter... But, his idea of that has been grossly distorted by his years spent in a state where Rights are conditionally honored, if at all.

So there's an assumption on his part that his world is our world. In reality, our world is quite foreign to him. As much as he claims to want what we have.... the Freedom we have actually frightens him, as he has been programmed by the prevailing sentiment in his tyrannical home state. A claimed desire for Freedom tinged by what amounts to Stockholm Syndrome.

That all said... as an ACTUAL Constitutionalist, I support his Rights to Free Speech, which may include disagreeable and self-contradictory points. I'll defend his Right to say anything. But I will also vigorously debate them.

I haven't seen anyone here suggest he move out of Marylandistan. Only that he neither extrapolate their onerous and oppressive environment to the rest of the country nor export it to the Free States the rest of us enjoy.

 

[JCinPA]

Never thought I would use it on this forum, but this guy gets the ignore button.

I never used it either here. Until now.

Whether he's a fed plant, or just has to prove his is bigger than ours, he can't carry an argument in a bucket, and as Racer pointed out, his comments are contradictory.

Don't know what his deal is, but don't really care. I'm getting to old and conscious I'm in the "fall" of life. I don't have extra time to spend reading his kind of nonsense.

Ignore. It's a beautiful thing! Never used it, let's see how it works!

 

[Racer88]

I never used it either here. Until now.

Whether he's a fed plant, or just has to prove his is bigger than ours, he can't carry an argument in a bucket, and as Racer pointed out, his comments are contradictory.

Don't know what his deal is, but don't really care. I'm getting to old and conscious I'm in the "fall" of life. I don't have extra time to spend reading his kind of nonsense.

Ignore. It's a beautiful thing! Never used it, let's see how it works!

I don't think it's entirely a bad thing. A 100% "echo chamber" can get stale. And being aware of the opposition's perspective can be strategically advantageous. Same goes for factions that claim to be our allies.

I honestly believe what I wrote earlier... because I've seen it so many times. People who flee oppressive states to escape the tyranny... once they arrive in a Free state, they find themselves VERY uncomfortable with Freedom. Because actual Freedom means that people who may not meet your moral, ethical, social, or cultural standards are ALSO Free.

The same thing happens to those people who stay in their oppressive states when they try to win back Freedom. They are willing to compromise that Freedom, because in reality, they are not comfortable with true Freedom. So, they're actually eager to impose conditions and restrictions on that Freedom, in a delusional effort to keep the "wrong people" from accessing that same Freedom.