SAFETY WARNING! Freedom Wolf Rails Can Come Loose!

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Bobster

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UPDATE: (see post below...)

SAFETY WARNING! Freedom Wolf Rails Can Come Loose!

I was planning on using this frame for an upcoming steel shoot. While looking it over, I noticed one of the rails had come loose! :eek: Initial correspondance with Lone Wolf and they are like "just glue it back on!" :rolleyes: I took great pride and care putting it together with plenty of time to dry. And the Loctite glue recommended is almost $30 for .1oz! :eek:

I replied back with something to the effect of "How many people have been hit in the face with a slide from this issue?" And some other potentially sour notes. I'd be OK with a credit to get a serialized frame from them at a discount but I don't think that is happening ("we don't swap unserialized frames")...

So what do you all think? I'll update with any good news but I'm thinking this will be my last purchase from Lone Wolf... đź–•

fwrail1.jpg fwrail2.jpg fwrail3.jpg
 
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Good heads up on that.
 
So, the only thing holding the rails in is glue? No pins?
 
Racer88 said:
So, the only thing holding the rails in is glue? No pins?
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I had the same question but more of a "WTF - glue?" I know industrial strength bonding materials exists and can do wonders, but somehow gluing metal to polymer doesn't seem like something I'd want to rely on for something important or are there other rails on the frame pinned in place and these are just additional support/guides?.
 
brian said:
I had the same question but more of a "WTF - glue?" I know industrial strength bonding materials exists and can do wonders, but somehow gluing metal to polymer doesn't seem like something I'd want to rely on for something important or are there other rails on the frame pinned in place and these are just additional support/guides?.
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Yes... there is some amazing adhesive technology out there. Even some car chassis are GLUED together.
www.cnet.com

Polestar 5 to Use New, Less-Expensive Bonded Aluminum Chassis Tech

Though it was once the province of sports cars and exotics, Polestar found a way to make bonded aluminum cheaper by simplifying the build process.
www.cnet.com www.cnet.com
 
The methods used to repair or salvage FUBR frames can be used to repair this as well.
Welding with soldering iron and used tabs and even JB welding it all on top of it.

Even if one has completed frame and no issues yet, drilling few small holes around the perimeter of the tabs and then filling the border with superglue and baking soda and then sanding it all up to reinforce it.

Wearing safety glasses is definitely a must at the shooting range with it.


 
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brian said:
but somehow gluing metal to polymer doesn't seem like something I'd want to rely on for something important or are there other rails on the frame pinned in place
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No. All the rails are glued in. Yes, you are gluing metal to polymer, but you are also gluing polymer to polymer. I can't help but think that the OP's problem isn't the frame or design, but an adhesive or assembly problem.
 

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James Moore said:
No. All the rails are glued in. Yes, you are gluing metal to polymer, but you are also gluing polymer to polymer. I can't help but think that the OP's problem isn't the frame or design, but an adhesive or assembly problem.
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See(ing) those pictures helps. It is glued to hold it in place, however, there is polymer frame which is also backing it up. I was envisioning something glued to the top of the frame. I like the P80 pinned rail approach better.
 
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Racer88 said:
Possibly a surface contamination issue... causing a failure to bond?
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That would be a possibility. I admit, I don't have more than 5-600 rounds through any of the Freedom Wolves I've built, but I'm pretty sure the frame would break before I could break the bond of those rails.
 
I have built three, two 9mm and one 22LR. Not problems with glue not holding. I used Loctite 380. This is the strongest epoxy I have used.
The only way it wouldn't hold would have to be 1- not enough glue used or 2- have a contaminated surface with oil or acetone.

This stuff has impressed me so much I use it to hold magwells when I mold them into the frame, just awesome stuff.
 
Michele said:
Superglue, backing soda and granite (pencil lead) Frame will break before that stuff comes apart.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5O2aYKhxgMY
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Holy crap.

I was cleaning and oiling my K&N air filters on vehicles last night and there's a broken plastic flange on one of the air box housings where a metal clamp snaps tight. I was mulling how I was going to fix that tonight with stuff laying around here. Perhaps with JB Weld. I will tackle it with the graphite, baking soda and super glue method now! I have all that here.

It does look really strong for what it is. I had not realized it could be this strong! Plus it looks like you can file it to shape which is exactly what I need to do to seal air.

Thx for Vid!
 
USApat said:
Holy crap.

I was cleaning and oiling my K&N air filters on vehicles last night and there's a broken plastic flange on one of the air box housings where a metal clamp snaps tight. I was mulling how I was going to fix that tonight with stuff laying around here. Perhaps with JB Weld. I will tackle it with the graphite, baking soda and super glue method now! I have all that here.

It does look really strong for what it is. I had not realized it could be this strong! Plus it looks like you can file it to shape which is exactly what I need to do to seal air.

Thx for Vid!
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Yep that is used on plastic car parts often…search google for car fix you’ll find an abundance of it. Some don’t even bother to add the baking soda to graphite , but I haven’t tried that yet. Super glue is really SUPER 💪🏻
 
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Racer88 said:
Yes... there is some amazing adhesive technology out there. Even some car chassis are GLUED together.
www.cnet.com

Polestar 5 to Use New, Less-Expensive Bonded Aluminum Chassis Tech

Though it was once the province of sports cars and exotics, Polestar found a way to make bonded aluminum cheaper by simplifying the build process.
www.cnet.com www.cnet.com
Click to expand...
McLaren is another. I drove a 720S a few years ago. Mindblowing. Decelleration was just as incredible as acceleration. I think my corneas are still on the windscreen....
 
UPDATE: LW recommended Loctite 380 or Vibra-TITE, both found at zamazom.

They DID get back to me today and looks like they might be sending my FFL a bare serialized frame. :) Since Bidet "outlawed" them, they got out of the 80% game so any Freedom Wolf frames you find will be old stock.

I get you'all pointing fingers at the OP or more specifically the OBOB (Old Boy Original Builder) for "errors assembling". :rolleyes: But this ol' boy is quite particular especially when it comes to building/repairing guns. The rail pockets and other parts were cleaned with alcohol, glue applied to all the mating surfaces, frame was clamped in a vice, and allowed to dry for a couple days--as per the instructions. The glue was a black liquid in a little packet, I think--I can't remember and I lost my build pics from a HD crash.

I'm a firm believer in the "miracles of modern science". :) Maybe the glue they sent was sub-par? I do know it didn't last in the container I put it in when done, and hazed up and dried up like Super Glue does.

It doesn't look like there was much glue adhesion but there was definitely glue in there and every rail pocket as it oozed out as the rail and cover were squished into place, requiring a good amount of cleaning as I went. If I (had to) do it again, I would scuff up all of the mating surfaces to create more surface area for the glue to bond to...

funkorail.jpg
 
Bobster said:
UPDATE: LW recommended Loctite 380 or Vibra-TITE, both found at zamazom.

They DID get back to me today and looks like they might be sending my FFL a bare serialized frame. :) Since Bidet "outlawed" them, they got out of the 80% game so any Freedom Wolf frames you find will be old stock.

I get you'all pointing fingers at the OP or more specifically the OBOB (Old Boy Original Builder) for "errors assembling". :rolleyes: But this ol' boy is quite particular especially when it comes to building/repairing guns. The rail pockets and other parts were cleaned with alcohol, glue applied to all the mating surfaces, frame was clamped in a vice, and allowed to dry for a couple days--as per the instructions. The glue was a black liquid in a little packet, I think--I can't remember and I lost my build pics from a HD crash.

I'm a firm believer in the "miracles of modern science". :) Maybe the glue they sent was sub-par? I do know it didn't last in the container I put it in when done, and hazed up and dried up like Super Glue does.

It doesn't look like there was much glue adhesion but there was definitely glue in there and every rail pocket as it oozed out as the rail and cover were squished into place, requiring a good amount of cleaning as I went. If I (had to) do it again, I would scuff up all of the mating surfaces to create more surface area for the glue to bond to...

View attachment 12047
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That is defiantly a epoxy failure. I didn't use the glue that came with my FW because it was already setting up and two out three kits the glue had already harden. Thats way I used the Loctite 380.

Before I used Loctite 380 I did a test on some scrap polymer and there was no way that I could pull it apart so to see these rails just come apart has to be epoxy being old and bad.

Glad to hear they are going to make good on their problem.
From the looks of the rails, they could be cleaned up and reused as long as the tab pins are still in place.
 
isopropyl alcohol leaves behind a residue and should not be the go-to for adhesive preparation or any paint preparation. go with an aerosol paint degreaser or lacquer thinner or MEK. if you really wanna get wild cyanoacrylate primer prior to the gluing process. once glued properly these rails should never come apart.
 
speedosack said:
isopropyl alcohol leaves behind a residue and should not be the go-to for adhesive preparation or any paint preparation.
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I use denatured alcohol in the shop and that is usually MY go-to for a solvent. Blown off quickly with compressed air. It is also less potentially CNS-damaging than MEK, thinners or acetone. At any rate, I don't like using solvents on plastics if I can avoid it.

I particularly don't want this to happen... ;)

killarymelt.jpg
 
Bobster said:
I use denatured alcohol in the shop and that is usually MY go-to for a solvent. Blown off quickly with compressed air. It is also less potentially CNS-damaging than MEK, thinners or acetone. At any rate, I don't like using solvents on plastics if I can avoid it.

I particularly don't want this to happen... ;)

View attachment 12058
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Good point about acetone and other solvents. They may not be "compatible" with the polymer of the frame.
 

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