Test your defensive ammo! Assume nothing!

I've been working on a new "EDC" in the form of a build based on a 100% serialized frame. My first order of business was to make sure it functioned reliably with FMJ range ammo. No problems there, with 1,000 rounds of common 115-gr FMJ over several range trips. During the last range trip, I tried some defensive hollow point ammo. For the first test, I ran through 20 rounds of Federal HST +P 147-gr. That is the defensive ammo I've had in my factory Glock 19 for years. It fired flawlessly in the P80 EDC build. And it was time to go home at that point.

Today I had a combination of tasks. I added an optic. So I needed to get that zeroed. I also wanted to continue reliability testing with both FMJ and HP ammo. The weight of an optic on the slide can potentially cause issues.

The optic zeroing and testing went very well.

I got some new 124-gr FMJ ammo to try, and it proved to be reliable with the optic installed.

I had also recently purchased some Federal HST 124-gr hollow points to test in addition to my existing stash of HST +P 147-gr. I ran 25 rounds of the new HST 124-gr ammo through with zero malfunctions. I forgot to bring a box of the HST +P 147-gr ammo. But then I remembered I had some in my pocket, in my spare mag for my current EDC - a Gen 2 Factory Glock 19. I popped the spare mag in my P80 EDC build and fired 9 rounds. Zero problems. I decided that was enough for now, and I didn't want to "waste" the rest of the ammo in that mag. I dropped the mag and went to manually eject the live round in the chamber.

Rut-roh! The slide wouldn't rack! It was stuck! I mean it would not BUDGE... at all. It felt like it was glued shut! Surely my eyes and hands deceive me. This can't be happening with my "perfect build!" I kept the muzzle pointed down range and tried to rack the slide again. No dice! REALLY?!?? WTF?!?? Tried AGAIN with some real force. NOPE! I'm pretty sure I heard my gun laughing at me!

Naturally, we test defensive ammo compatibility by loading and FIRING it. Usually all of it - whatever we loaded in the magazine. Checking accuracy - POA = POI. Checking reliability in terms of feed, fire, extraction / ejection. We don't want to find out the ammo causes problems when the SHTF. One of the most common issues with Hollow Point ammo is Failure To Feed (FTF). The truncated shape of hollow points may not play well with the barrel feed ramp in some cases.

But, what about manually cycling live rounds without firing them? Manually extracting live rounds? We do it with Snap-Caps during function testing at home. But, I will admit it had not occurred to me to test it with live ammo. But by chance at the range, I tried... and failed.

Finally, I decided to just fire that stuck round (without the mag) and see what happens. Bang and a perfect extraction and ejection of the spent shell. What gives??? It occurred to me that perhaps the 147-gr bullet in the HST +P round is slightly longer, and maybe that's why it was stuck when I tried to manually eject the live round. Time to go home and do some analysis!

I went home. I loaded a mag of regular HST 124-gr ammo and manually cycled it. Like buttah! No problems. I loaded some HST +P 147-gr ammo. Chambered the first round. It fed without a problem. Then I tried to eject it. Problem! Jammed again. I tried again with more force. Jammed!! I tried again using MORE force. Success! It took a surprising amount of force to get the round to eject. What is up with that?? No bueno!

Time for more analysis. "Plunk" test time! The Plunk Test involves removing the barrel and dropping a live round into the chamber. It should drop in easily. You should be able to rotate / spin the round in the chamber easily. And when you turn the barrel chamber-down, the round should drop out.

I compared CCI FMJ 124-gr, Federal HST 124-gr, and problematic Federal HST +P 147-gr. The CCI FMJ and HST 124-gr passed the plunk test easily. However, the HST +P 147-gr.... was what I will call "sticky." If I pressed the round into the chamber, I could turn the barrel upside down and the round would stay in the chamber. Interesting.

Next... Let's get out the digital calipers. I measured the same three rounds - CCI FMJ vs HST 124-gr vs HST +P 147-gr. I made this infographic to demonstrate the differences in length and shape between the three rounds:

While the HST +P 147-gr is longer than the HST 124-gr, I realized that it couldn't just be the length causing the issue. The CCI FMJ 124-gr ammo was longer than both of them. But, look at the bullet profiles. The FMJ is nearly conical, as is most 9-mm FMJ ammo. The HST 124-gr ammo is fairly tapered, as well. But, you can see that the HST +P 147-gr has a side profile that is straighter... more parallel... not as tapered. Perhaps this is causing the problem with manually cycling / extraction of the live rounds.

The take home message....
Test your defensive carry ammo! Whether your EDC or Home Defense gun is a factory firearm or a PMF (personally made firearm).

Test it in every way. When I previously tested the HP ammo, I fired every round I loaded in the magazine. It was "by chance" today that I decided to stop halfway through a mag and unload the gun. That's how I discovered the issue with the HST +P 147-gr round.

What say you? Comment below!

 

[Racer88]

Of course, my universal solution is to seat a G23 upper and grab you a handful!

LOL! I've already got a G23... and a G27 (which I carried for over a decade). I made a decision to move to a larger frame for EDC and a more controllable (and higher capacity) 9-mm. Hence the switch to the PFC9.

I see three possible "solutions" to this rather insignificant "problem":

1. Do nothing. Just don't use HST 147-gr as my defensive ammo. I've got it loaded with HST 124-gr now. I'm pretty sure that will work just fine, but I hope to never find out. Is 147-gr that much better? Or better at all? My guess is that it doesn't matter at all.

2. Have this barrel reamed by a gunsmith / machinist.

3. Get a barrel that accepts the HST 147-gr, which I am NOT stuck on as my defensive caliber.

 

[JustKen]

3. Get a barrel that accepts the HST 147-gr, which I am NOT stuck on as my defensive caliber.

Which is what you, presumably, paid for...
If it were machined to SAAMI tolerances as they stated, one would believe the 147grn should have zero issue as the round is also manufactured within the same SAAMI parameters in order to perform across the board through various barrel manufacturers. 147grn HP is not an uncommon duty round.

They need to replace your barrel.

/K

 

[brian]

1. Do nothing. Just don't use HST 147-gr as my defensive ammo.

I'd hesitate to do nothing. Work it out somehow as you could run into issues with other ammo too. While you intend to always use your tested defense ammo in it, in a SHTF scenario where you are left grabbing whatever is available you might appreciate having a more tolerant barrel. In a perfect world, @JustKen's suggestion of getting them to replace the barrel (with one that accepts the ammo) is the one to pursue.

 

[Racer88]

In a perfect world, @JustKen's suggestion of getting them to replace the barrel (with one that accepts the ammo) is the one to pursue.

I plan to follow up with them. Question is... how long do I wait? How long to I give them to investigate the issue (as they said they would)?

 

[Stephen G]

I thought this was going to be about shooting a bunch of vegetables or something.

 

[brian]

I plan to follow up with them. Question is... how long do I wait? How long to I give them to investigate the issue (as they said they would)?

Good question on how long to wait. Short of a (another?) societal breakdown you've got time.

 

[Racer88]

Good question on how long to wait. Short of a (another?) societal breakdown you've got time.

LOL! Yeah... I've got guns. At least 2. Just in case!

 

[Harold]

I plan to follow up with them. Question is... how long do I wait? How long to I give them to investigate the issue (as they said they would)?

Did you ever hear anything else from the manufacturer about this issue?

I'm no expert on barrels, but as I understand it, different barrels from different manufacturers can vary with regard to the amount of "freebore" and "leade" as per the following illustration:

I ran into a similar problem one day with some Blazer 115 grain FMJ range ammo. I had recently bought an aftermarket stainless steel Glock 19 "match" barrel and it was just sitting there awaiting installation and just for the heck of it I grabbed a cartridge from the box of Blazer ammo I just bought and did a plunk test with the barrel - and it failed. I was astonished. The cartridge would not seat in the chamber even under significant thumb pressure (i.e. the rim of the case would not contact the stop shoulder of the chamber).

So I tried it in two other barrel aftermarket stainless steel "match" barrels by two different manufacturers (although one of them was a was Glock 17 barrel) and the test failed in each barrel. Following that, I tried the same cartridge in a Glock 19 OEM barrel, and it passed the plunk test; it went in and out of the chamber with ease.

After closely examining the cartridge, I found that the bullet was out of round. It wasn't easy to see by a casual visual examination but I could feel a bulge in the bullet with my finger and a measurement with a digital caliper confirmed that it was out of round.

After that I experience I removed the stainless steel "match" barrel from my EDC pistol and replaced it with a Glock 19 OEM barrel.

 

[Racer88]

Did you ever hear anything else from the manufacturer about this issue?

I re-contacted them a couple of weeks ago, and they said they were still looking into it.

 

[Alex]

This is not defensive ammo but it made for a frustrating day at my club's carry revolver match.

It did drive home your point about testing ammo. The unfired rounds are Herter's 9mm 115gr range ammo. The 2 silver fired cases were Speer Gold Dot that had been loaded and carried for who knows how long and needed to be fired. Hoooopefully it is just a problem with the Herter's ammo getting along with that revolver. All of the primers have dents.

 

[Racer88]

This is not defensive ammo but it made for a frustrating day at my club's carry revolver match.
View attachment 8440
It did drive home your point about testing ammo. The unfired rounds are Herter's 9mm 115gr range ammo. The 2 silver fired cases were Speer Gold Dot that had been loaded and carried for who knows how long and needed to be fired. Hoooopefully it is just a problem with the Herter's ammo getting along with that revolver. All of the primers have dents.

So, failure to fire? In a revolver, no less.

 

[Alpa Chino]

Winchester .380 ACP doesn’t feed reliably in one of my (smallest) carry guns.
Instead of chasing after it I just doesn’t use it in either of my carry guns.

 

[Racer88]

Winchester .380 ACP doesn’t feed reliably in one of my (smallest) carry guns.
Instead of chasing after it I just doesn’t use it in either of my carry guns.

In my case, it (HST 147) feeds and fires reliably. It just doesn't extract (without a lot of force) in the UNfired condition. The bullet jams in the throat (chamber -> rifling). If I fire it, the shell extracts without any issue. It's just if I decide to unload a live round that has been chambered that it gets stuck.

While I let the manufacturer know... and they are reportedly investigating... I simply won't use THAT ammo. No big deal. The HST 124 runs perfectly and is perfectly suitable for SD purposes. If I was set on using HST 147, I'd just get another barrel. Also no biggie.

 

[940SC]

Great write-up, kudos to the OP.

 

[Hvymax]

I've been working on a new "EDC" in the form of a build based on a 100% serialized frame. My first order of business was to make sure it functioned reliably with FMJ range ammo. No problems there, with 1,000 rounds of common 115-gr FMJ over several range trips. During the last range trip, I tried some defensive hollow point ammo. For the first test, I ran through 20 rounds of Federal HST +P 147-gr. That is the defensive ammo I've had in my factory Glock 19 for years. It fired flawlessly in the P80 EDC build. And it was time to go home at that point.

Today I had a combination of tasks. I added an optic. So I needed to get that zeroed. I also wanted to continue reliability testing with both FMJ and HP ammo. The weight of an optic on the slide can potentially cause issues.

View attachment 6345​

The optic zeroing and testing went very well.

I got some new 124-gr FMJ ammo to try, and it proved to be reliable with the optic installed.

View attachment 6346​

I had also recently purchased some Federal HST 124-gr hollow points to test in addition to my existing stash of HST +P 147-gr. I ran 25 rounds of the new HST 124-gr ammo through with zero malfunctions. I forgot to bring a box of the HST +P 147-gr ammo. But then I remembered I had some in my pocket, in my spare mag for my current EDC - a Gen 2 Factory Glock 19. I popped the spare mag in my P80 EDC build and fired 9 rounds. Zero problems. I decided that was enough for now, and I didn't want to "waste" the rest of the ammo in that mag. I dropped the mag and went to manually eject the live round in the chamber.

Rut-roh! The slide wouldn't rack! It was stuck! I mean it would not BUDGE... at all. It felt like it was glued shut! Surely my eyes and hands deceive me. This can't be happening with my "perfect build!" I kept the muzzle pointed down range and tried to rack the slide again. No dice! REALLY?!?? WTF?!?? Tried AGAIN with some real force. NOPE! I'm pretty sure I heard my gun laughing at me!

Naturally, we test defensive ammo compatibility by loading and FIRING it. Usually all of it - whatever we loaded in the magazine. Checking accuracy - POA = POI. Checking reliability in terms of feed, fire, extraction / ejection. We don't want to find out the ammo causes problems when the SHTF. One of the most common issues with Hollow Point ammo is Failure To Feed (FTF). The truncated shape of hollow points may not play well with the barrel feed ramp in some cases.

But, what about manually cycling live rounds without firing them? Manually extracting live rounds? We do it with Snap-Caps during function testing at home. But, I will admit it had not occurred to me to test it with live ammo. But by chance at the range, I tried... and failed.

Finally, I decided to just fire that stuck round (without the mag) and see what happens. Bang and a perfect extraction and ejection of the spent shell. What gives??? It occurred to me that perhaps the 147-gr bullet in the HST +P round is slightly longer, and maybe that's why it was stuck when I tried to manually eject the live round. Time to go home and do some analysis!

I went home. I loaded a mag of regular HST 124-gr ammo and manually cycled it. Like buttah! No problems. I loaded some HST +P 147-gr ammo. Chambered the first round. It fed without a problem. Then I tried to eject it. Problem! Jammed again. I tried again with more force. Jammed!! I tried again using MORE force. Success! It took a surprising amount of force to get the round to eject. What is up with that?? No bueno!

Time for more analysis. "Plunk" test time! The Plunk Test involves removing the barrel and dropping a live round into the chamber. It should drop in easily. You should be able to rotate / spin the round in the chamber easily. And when you turn the barrel chamber-down, the round should drop out.

View attachment 6349​

I compared CCI FMJ 124-gr, Federal HST 124-gr, and problematic Federal HST +P 147-gr. The CCI FMJ and HST 124-gr passed the plunk test easily. However, the HST +P 147-gr.... was what I will call "sticky." If I pressed the round into the chamber, I could turn the barrel upside down and the round would stay in the chamber. Interesting.

Next... Let's get out the digital calipers. I measured the same three rounds - CCI FMJ vs HST 124-gr vs HST +P 147-gr. I made this infographic to demonstrate the differences in length and shape between the three rounds:
View attachment 6373
While the HST +P 147-gr is longer than the HST 124-gr, I realized that it couldn't just be the length causing the issue. The CCI FMJ 124-gr ammo was longer than both of them. But, look at the bullet profiles. The FMJ is nearly conical, as is most 9-mm FMJ ammo. The HST 124-gr ammo is fairly tapered, as well. But, you can see that the HST +P 147-gr has a side profile that is straighter... more parallel... not as tapered. Perhaps this is causing the problem with manually cycling / extraction of the live rounds.

The take home message....
Test your defensive carry ammo! Whether your EDC or Home Defense gun is a factory firearm or a PMF (personally made firearm).

Test it in every way. When I previously tested the HP ammo, I fired every round I loaded in the magazine. It was "by chance" today that I decided to stop halfway through a mag and unload the gun. That's how I discovered the issue with the HST +P 147-gr round.

What say you? Comment below!

I always test mine first for what runs reliably and then what's the most accurate and then what's the most "effective". Anything that reliably and reasonably accurately delivers Lehigh XP's gets a diet of those. 68gr Copper #4 screwdriver bits traveling 2-3000fps are really hard to beat. Everything else gets V Crowns. They are stupid accurate and a premium JHP as well. I also have a mag of V Crowns handy for most when accuracy is the absolute goal. The fanciest most expensive ammo in the world is useless if it doesn't work with your gun.

 

[Racer88]

I always test mine first for what runs reliably and then what's the most accurate and then what's the most "effective". Anything that reliably and reasonably accurately delivers Lehigh XP's gets a diet of those. 68gr Copper #4 screwdriver bits traveling 2-3000fps are really hard to beat. Everything else gets V Crowns. They are stupid accurate and a premium JHP as well. I also have a mag of V Crowns handy for most when accuracy is the absolute goal. The fanciest most expensive ammo in the world is useless if it doesn't work with your gun.

The 147-gr ammo fed and fired and extracted perfectly during live fire. But the surprise was when I tried to manually cycle / extract an UNspent cartridge from the chamber. It was STUCK. It didn't cause any problems during live fire. But there are times, of course, when you want to unload a gun, including extracting the live round from the chamber. That's where I ran into the problem.