Article Link! The Great American EV Fire Sale Is About to Begin

Racer88 said:
They'll find a way to tax that, too!
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They first have to know they are there. I don’t sell power back to the utility. Any excess power the panels generate keeps the battery charged.

I’m working on adding a small 600 watt vertical wind turbine to supplement the panels. It’s breezy enough to keep it spinning with some regularity. If it works like I expect, I’ll add another to get 1200 watts. Mainly to get some additional charging done at night.

1200 watts is enough to power the interior lighting and a couple flat screens at night. The end game obviously is to generate enough to power everything.

Wind is unpredictable but on a still night I have enough battery to get thru the night and keep essential services powered up until the sun comes up and the panels do their job.

The future EV will provide 100% of the power for the home for 3-4 days if necessary. Basically a backup system on wheels. If I add more solar panels I can run the house and charge the EV at the same time during daylight hours
 
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Bongo Lewi said:
They first have to know they are there. I don’t sell power back to the utility. Any excess power the panels generate keeps the battery charged.

I’m working on adding a small 600 watt vertical wind turbine to supplement the panels. It’s breezy enough to keep it spinning with some regularity. If it works like I expect, I’ll add another to get 1200 watts. Mainly to get some additional charging done at night.

1200 watts is enough to power the interior lighting and a couple flat screens at night. The end game obviously is to generate enough to power everything.

Wind is unpredictable but on a still night I have enough battery to get thru the night and keep essential services powered up until the sun comes up and the panels do their job.

The future EV will provide 100% of the power for the home for 3-4 days if necessary. Basically a backup system on wheels. If I add more solar panels I can run the house and charge the EV at the same time during daylight hours
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In California, they made it illegal to collect rainwater and store it.

I can see crazy tyrants trying to do the same with sunshine. :cautious:
 
Racer88 said:
In California, they made it illegal to collect rainwater and store it.
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I was told by a county building inspector four years ago that you aren't supposed to capture rainwater. My gutter downspouts run into three 50 gallon recievers (recycled olive barrels) that I use to refill the pool and also for lawn and garden irrigation. The barrels are connected with buried PVC pipe. Even a short rain fills them up with clean water. That's 150 gallons of water I don't have to pump out of the ground and treat.

He didn't make a big deal about it or report it. I looked into it and discovered he was right, but that restriction had been recently eliminated.
 
Racer88 said:
In California, they made it illegal to collect rainwater and store it.
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This was changed in 2012.
Homeowners no longer need a permit to capture rainwater for non-potable purposes. If you want to drink it, THEN you need permits and a filtration system.

See Rainwater Capture Act of 2012.
 
Bongo Lewi said:
I was told by a county building inspector four years ago that you aren't supposed to capture rainwater. My gutter downspouts run into three 50 gallon recievers (recycled olive barrels) that I use to refill the pool and also for lawn and garden irrigation. The barrels are connected with buried PVC pipe. Even a short rain fills them up with clean water. That's 150 gallons of water I don't have to pump out of the ground and treat.

He didn't make a big deal about it or report it. I looked into it and discovered he was right, but that restriction had been recently eliminated.
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Most states permit rainwater collection now. Only a few have restrictions, with Colorado being the most strict.

Someone figured out that it helps with stormwater management and water conservation.
 
I came across this article today. It had the potential to be very good, as it attempts to be fairly comprehensive. However, it misses at least a couple of marks. Big marks.

First, the bias is obvious (and not unexpected). But it begins with the notion that the main reasons Americans reject EVs is because they're ignorant / stupid. Not so. It claims that our objections are based on mythology. Also not true at all. The objections are based on very real factors.


Secondly, it misses the mark by ignoring American culture being QUITE different than the rest of the world. Because our country is very large and "wide open," we are travelers. We are a nation of roaming "cowboys" who are accustomed to getting on our own horses and riding off into the sunset on a whim. Just as horses can graze anywhere, our ICE cars can be refueled anywhere. Any time we want.... we GO. And we often go far.... because we can. Our cars (horses) represent Freedom very much the same as our firearms. We have Free Will in every sense.

While those EV advocates will argue that with local commuting, which is most of our driving, range and charging isn't an issue. That matters not one bit. While most of our driving is indeed local commuting, with ICE cars (our horses), we retain the FREEDOM to take off on a road trip on a whim. We can make that decision spontaneously. No planning required. No matter which direction we go.... no matter how far we go.... we can pull over on ANY exit and fuel up in THREE minutes and go another 400 - 500 miles. I could literally drive from Florida to Alaska and have no worries about fuel on the way. Try that in an EV! LOL! Shit... driving from here to Atlanta or Chicago or Dallas would require advance planning and far more time in an EV.

And the range of an ICE car is pretty much immune to weather (temperature) conditions. Not so much with EVs.

The utility of EVs is therefore quite limited in the context of American culture, which is TREMENDOUSLY different than Europe or China. Also consider that those parts of the world are more accustomed (and thusly equipped) to public transportation for local, medium, and long distance travel. So, having an EV for ONLY local commuting fits into their culture. We are most assuredly NOT users of public transportation.

Another missed mark in this article is the resale value of EVs. It is effectively zero. You can't even give them away. ICE cars retain some value until the wheels fall off. I was able to sell my 14 year old Camry with 214,000 miles (still running like a top) for actual money. Nobody wants a used EV with a used battery that will require very expensive replacement in the foreseeable future. EVs are effectively disposable cars.

Calling Americans (the Free Market) stupid or ignorant because they don't want what you're selling never ever EVER works. It just backfires.
 
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Bongo Lewi said:
Eight states have started taxing electric power used to charge vehicles. At the charger stations that charge. Best to charge at home.
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The elephant in the road is that many states claim gasoline/diesel taxes get used for road and infrastructure repairs/improvements*. An EV does not pay those taxes but still uses the road. And most EVs are quite heavy--hundreds to thousands of pounds heavier than their ICE equivalent. :eek: So EVs are "harder" on the roadways...

*more than likely, tax revenue goes into the General Fund, then road improvements are pulled from that.

Here in FL, in addition to the fuel tax (road diesel is also taxed), many roads are becoming "Pay-By-Plate"--ie: Toll Roads. PBP means many toll booths are un-manned and your plate is scanned as you pass the booth. We get a "discount" if we use an Epass transponder (with payment account) and don't have to deal with the pesky PBP bills from the Expressway Authority in the mail. The PBP bills have higher tolls and also transaction fees so a $2 toll probably ends up costing you $3.

Sure, you can use the interstate system and not pay tolls, but that could easily add dozens of miles and dozens of minutes to your trip. Not to mention the potential for increased traffic, especially around the theme parks! :eek: Time is money, money is time...

My only regret with Epass is not getting one when they first came out 20yrs ago and were introductorally "free". A year later when I started buying them, they were $20, now I think they are only $5 for a stick-on, available at many supermarkets. Every car has a suction-cup Epass in a Faraday bag in the glovebox. It is removed when not in use, mainly so the Sun doesn't kill it.
 
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Bobster said:
Sure, you can use the interstate system and not pay tolls, but that could easily add dozens of miles and dozens of minutes to your trip.
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In some states, the interstates are toll roads, too! One I remember in particular is the Chicago area. ALL the highways, including interstates, are toll roads.

Bobster said:
My only regret with Epass is not getting one when they first came out 20yrs ago and were introductorally "free". A year later they were $20, now I think they are only $5 for a stick-on, available at many supermarkets. Every car has a suction-cup Epass in a Faraday bag in the glovebox. It is removed when not in use, mainly so the Sun doesn't kill it.
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I've had my suction cup Epass on the windshield for some 20+ years. Sun hasn't killed it. I use it every day on my commute.
 
Bobster said:
The elephant in the road is that many states claim gasoline/diesel taxes get used for road and infrastructure repairs/improvements*. An EV does not pay those taxes but still uses the road. And most EVs are quite heavy--hundreds to thousands of pounds heavier than their ICE equivalent. :eek: So EVs are "harder" on the roadways...

*more than likely, tax revenue goes into the General Fund, then road improvements are pulled from that.

Here in FL, in addition to the fuel tax (road diesel is also taxed), many roads are becoming "Pay-By-Plate"--ie: Toll Roads. PBP means many toll booths are un-manned and your plate is scanned as you pass the booth. We get a "discount" if we use an Epass transponder (with payment account) and don't have to deal with the pesky PBP bills from the Expressway Authority in the mail. The PBP bills have higher tolls and also transaction fees so a $2 toll probably ends up costing you $3.

Sure, you can use the interstate system and not pay tolls, but that could easily add dozens of miles and dozens of minutes to your trip. Not to mention the potential for increased traffic, especially around the theme parks! :eek: Time is money, money is time...

My only regret with Epass is not getting one when they first came out 20yrs ago and were introductorally "free". A year later when I started buying them, they were $20, now I think they are only $5 for a stick-on, available at many supermarkets. Every car has a suction-cup Epass in a Faraday bag in the glovebox. It is removed when not in use, mainly so the Sun doesn't kill it.
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I usually bought an e-pass when I lived anywhere that was the norm. Most of those were heavy traffic areas and I also rode on the 'pay' lane to get where I was going. Especially in DC. The extra cost balanced out with the fuel wasted in bumper to bumper traffic on the other side of the jersey wall. Eventually I gave up, moved into town (well... Alexandria) and rode a motorcycle to work. I also got around DC on the Metro. I sold my car. Very liberating. I was traveling all the time anyway. Cars are expensive. I never really thought about how much it was costing me until I noticed how much more money I had at the end of the month.

I'd want to see an accounting of all that gas tax money and where it went. In the interim, I'm fine with gas guzzlers paying the freight. :) Because my EV may be heavy, but so is the tanker that hauls the gasoline to gas stations I don't need. So it's a wash as far as I'm concerned. Besides... as I mentioned I traveled a lot and often some fat fuck who weighed twice as much as me paid the same for his or her ticket as I did.

When flying, weight (fat) is money. Money is weight. Nobody said life is fair.
 
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Racer88 said:
In some states, the interstates are toll roads, too!
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Speaking for Orlando, the interstates are still "free" although with the latest project "I-4 Ultimate" they added toll, limited access/egress "express" lanes down the middle. Purple and green are toll. The dashed green has since been completed (as have other sections) so Orlando now has a bypass "loop" around it.

PS: it may be interesting to note that I-4W travels SE for a brief stretch and vise-versa...

Orlandotollroads.jpg
 
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Racer88 said:
Sarcastic Big Deal GIF by CBS


Of course they have and will. They're not getting gas taxes from those cars. Gotta replace the revenue somehow, eh?
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Some states (Looking at YOU, Oregon) have tossed around the idea of taxing by the mile to use roads (AKA making all roads toll roads) for years because the hybrids were killing their gas tax revenue.
I escaped the left coast lunatic fringe and moved back to Montana about 20 years ago so I do not know where that idea is currently
 
Can’t toll an existing interstate but that does not stop them from tolling bypass roads or bypass bridges off an interstate or from creating a brand new interstate and make it a toll.
 
FrankenGlock said:
Can’t toll an existing interstate but that does not stop them from tolling bypass roads or bypass bridges off an interstate or from creating a brand new interstate and make it a toll.
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I'm quite certain I paid tolls on the main interstate going through the Chicago area.

Just googled it. I didn't think interstates could be tolled, either. Apparently they can.

1753049657869.png
 
Racer88 said:
I'm quite certain I paid tolls on the main interstate going through the Chicago area.

Just googled it. I didn't think interstates could be tolled, either. Apparently they can.

View attachment 33616
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The Illinois tollway system is run by a state agency but receives no state or federal money. Users support all of it thru fees (tolls). It’s a common myth that it’s privately owned. It isn’t. My sister worked there one summer when she was in college. She told me her co workers were some of the dumbest people she ever met. Patronage, nepotism prevailed.
 
Google why you can't toll an existing interstate. They can toll for major improvements but it's not a forever thing.
 
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NavyVette said:
For Bongo:
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Not a terrible idea. Staffed by Optimus robots? That would be even better. Take the kids. They would love it.

Test drive a new Tesla? Lunch is on us. Smart.

Capital One has created banks that look like coffee houses. Casual, customer focused staff, food, comfortable seating, and free internet. Investment/financial advisors and even tax services. Grandpa hates it. Gen Y/Z love it. I'll take a car loan and a double shot latte with warmed oat milk, no whip, and a dash of cinnamon.
 
Bongo Lewi said:
Not a terrible idea. Staffed by Optimus robots? That would be even better. Take the kids. They would love it.

Test drive a new Tesla? Lunch is on us. Smart.

Capital One has created banks that look like coffee houses. Casual, customer focused staff, food, comfortable seating, and free internet. Investment/financial advisors and even tax services. Grandpa hates it. Gen Y/Z love it. I'll take a car loan and a double shot latte with warmed oat milk, no whip, and a dash of cinnamon.
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You lost me at oat milk
 

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