Toyota has given up on EVs. Not.

There’s that duplicate post thing again. No idea what’s causing that.
 
Bongo Lewi said:
Nobody cares
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It's not a matter of anyone "caring," whatever emotional definition you assign to that word.

It's a matter of FACT. It's an observation. And it should be rather self-evident to any mildly intelligent person that products with INHERENT VALUE don't have to be mandated.

In fact, one might reasonably argue that any product mandated by the government could be assumed to be inferior.

There are reasons such a product can't survive the Free Market on its own merits.
 
Racer88 said:
It's not a matter of anyone "caring," whatever emotional definition you assign to that word.

It's a matter of FACT. It's an observation. And it should be rather self-evident to any mildly intelligent person that products with INHERENT VALUE don't have to be mandated.

In fact, one might reasonably argue that any product mandated by the government could be assumed to be inferior.

There are reasons such a product can't survive the Free Market on its own merits.
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There is no evidence supporting that European consumers are against EVs. Or that the vehicles would not sell without a mandate. None. Zero. Nada. The fact the EU has almost universally adopted a timeline for conversion to EVs has been met with no substantial resistance.

The EU have walked back the 2035 mandate to 90% vs 100%. But that hasn’t been approved yet.
 
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Bongo Lewi said:
There is no evidence supporting that European consumers are against EVs. Or that the vehicles would not sell without a mandate. None. Zero. Nada. The fact the EU has almost universally adopted a timeline for conversion to EVs has been met with no substantial resistance.

The EU have walked back the 2035 mandate to 90% vs 100%. But that hasn’t been approved yet.
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To borrow from you... Nobody here "cares" about what they're doing or not doing in Europe. :)

We aren't Europe. But California passed a similar EV mandate (100% by 2035). That ain't ever happening, not even in Kalifornia!

But Trump just rolled back the ultra-silly and intrusive "Auto-Stop-Start" feature on new cars. Hooray!
 
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I’m all for the death of start stop. Dumbest idea ever. I just switch it off. It’s a habit now
 
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Bongo Lewi said:
I’m all for the death of start stop. Dumbest idea ever. I just switch it off. It’s a habit now
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Wife and I could never get in the habit of doing that. Invariably we'd get caught off-guard at the first intersection.... "Shit!" and then hit the stupid button. As you know, the auto-stop resets every time you get in the car. So you have to do it every time. Pain. In. The. Ass.

So, I installed "Auto-Stop Eliminator" on both cars. WONDERFUL! Best $100 I ever spent on each car.
Whatever setting you hit on that button... stays that way. So, if you turn it off, it stays off... until you turn it on again (which is NEVER).
 
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Hmmm… is it worth a hundred bucks to not have to press that button? I’m thinking yes.
 
Bongo Lewi said:
Yep. Still doesnt matter. GM builds cars in Australia, Ford builds cars for the UK and all across Europe in local assembly plants. Stellantis also. But they aren’t an American company anymore. European Jeeps are made in Italy.

Most foreign car makers assemble cars in the US for the same reasons. Toyota, Mazda, BMW, Mercedes, others assemble US market cars here.

Same thing with guns. Beretta, Sig, Taurus build guns here. Because they have to. Guns made in the US are not exported to Europe.

Best selling American car in China? Tesla. This car is among the most popular cars in China:View attachment 38271
Made by GM. In China. It’s an EV
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GM does not make cars in Australia anymore.
Or New Zealand or Thailand.
 
Bongo Lewi said:
I’m all for the death of start stop. Dumbest idea ever. I just switch it off. It’s a habit now
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I alwaye forget until the first stop after the engine warms up.

I'm still thinking of gettine the eliminator but for the new interior GM trucks it's a rowal pain to install.

Maybe I will do it in the spring when I have the Vette out of the winter nap.
 
NavyVette said:
GM does not make cars in Australia anymore.
Or New Zealand or Thailand.
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Holden is gone but GM sells right hand drive GMC Cadillac and Chevy. Nobody makes cars in Australia anymore. All cars are imported. GM does conversions of US built cars and trucks to right hand drive in AU.

In 2025 EVs were 10% of new car sales in AU. The overwhelming majority of EVs sold are the Chinese BYD. They outsell Tesla 10-1. Because they cost a lot less.

The top selling vehicle in Australia is the Ford Ranger. Followed by the Toyota RAV 4 and Hilux.

GM’s EV play in AU is rumored to be the Cadillac Lyric
 
Bongo Lewi said:
Holden is gone but GM sells right hand drive GMC Cadillac and Chevy. Nobody makes cars in Australia anymore. All cars are imported. GM does conversions of US built cars and trucks to right hand drive in AU.

In 2025 EVs were 10% of new car sales in AU. The overwhelming majority of EVs sold are the Chinese BYD. They outsell Tesla 10-1. Because they cost a lot less.

The top selling vehicle in Australia is the Ford Ranger. Followed by the Toyota RAV 4 and Hilux.

GM’s EV play in AU is rumored to be the Cadillac Lyric
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I was replying to "GM builds cars in Australia"
Australia does now have a form of electric-vehicle (EV) mandate, but it’s not a straightforward ban on petrol/diesel cars like some other countries. Instead, Australia’s federal government has introduced a New Vehicle Efficiency Standard (NVES) that functions as a performance-based mandate designed to drive EV uptake over time.

What's common amongst coutries that are hell bent on EV's? Oh yeah, they are also hostile to private gun onwnership.

Fuck 'em. I don't give a shit what they do :D
 
I don't think the rollback of the auto start/stop will affect the Prius or any other hybrid car, only straight gas burners.

I cringe every time I pull out of the shop with a cold soaked BMW hybrid, step on the gas and have the cold, dead turbocharged engine suddenly wake up and go to redline under boost. Those German engineers must know what they are doing as they do not suffer oil related engine failures, so far. Twelve volt batteries are another story. Most hybrids have 2 of them and they die at about 3 year intervals. I suspect it has to do with the way the charging system is set up. There is no alternator, the HV battery charges the 12 volt batteries through a dc/dc converter at 15 VOLTS! It is not unusual to pull the same battery at 8 ~10 years of age from an ICE version of the car.
 
Alex said:
I don't think the rollback of the auto start/stop will affect the Prius or any other hybrid car, only straight gas burners.

I cringe every time I pull out of the shop with a cold soaked BMW hybrid, step on the gas and have the cold, dead turbocharged engine suddenly wake up and go to redline under boost. Those German engineers must know what they are doing as they do not suffer oil related engine failures, so far. Twelve volt batteries are another story. Most hybrids have 2 of them and they die at about 3 year intervals. I suspect it has to do with the way the charging system is set up. There is no alternator, the HV battery charges the 12 volt batteries through a dc/dc converter at 15 VOLTS! It is not unusual to pull the same battery at 8 ~10 years of age from an ICE version of the car.
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Yeah, when I am towing and see a gap in traffic that I can take advantage of that damned auto stop could end up killing me. Luckilly before I have that issue I have normally turned it off.
 
NavyVette said:
I was replying to "GM builds cars in Australia"
Australia does now have a form of electric-vehicle (EV) mandate, but it’s not a straightforward ban on petrol/diesel cars like some other countries. Instead, Australia’s federal government has introduced a New Vehicle Efficiency Standard (NVES) that functions as a performance-based mandate designed to drive EV uptake over time.

What's common amongst coutries that are hell bent on EV's? Oh yeah, they are also hostile to private gun onwnership.

Fuck 'em. I don't give a shit what they do :D
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What country isn't hostile to gun ownership? Pretty much all of them. Only three have a constitutional right to bear arms. US, Mexico, Guatemala. You have to jump thru hoops to get a gun in Mexico. In spite of their constitutional right. Unless you are a drug dealer.

I'd argue the US is pretty hostile to gun owners.

This EV debate will end only one way. When EVs are 80-90% of all vehicles sold. Everywhere. What anyone prefers or likes makes no difference al all. This is about money. Like everything else in the world.

I choose the red pill. Everything is changing. Best to roll with it.
 
Bongo Lewi said:
This EV debate will end only one way. When EVs are 80-90% of all vehicles sold. Everywhere. What anyone prefers or likes makes no difference al all. This is about money. Like everything else in the world.
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Not in a free market, which depends ENTIRELY on what CONSUMERS prefer. See the android vs apple cell phone debates! LOL! The reality is that they're both good products. People have their preferences. And that's why they both DOMINATE the cell phone market.

There are other phones. But yeah... CONSUMER PREFERENCE plays a HUGE role in which brands and models succeed. I dare suggest it's the ONLY thing that matters. Political forces aren't trying to mandate (yet) which type of phone people have to buy.

Bongo Lewi said:
I choose the red pill. Everything is changing. Best to roll with it.
Click to expand...

The exact opposite of every fiber in my being. I'm a nonconformist because I do not trust the intent of those demanding conformity. And I am very much justified in that lack of trust. To wit... covid hysteria. And so many other examples.

Going along to get along is, to me, the lowest form of human existence. It's lazy. It's unproductive. It lacks integrity and being true to yourself. Lastly, it's dangerous.

Anyone who tells me to just go along because something is the "new normal" is CERTAINLY my enemy. And I do not use that term lightly. Anyone who tells me that is plotting my demise. They are to be shunned, avoided, ignored, and watched with a very wary eye. Again... covid shutdowns, rules, and policies were a TYRANNICAL agenda that USEFUL IDIOTS (including many of my formerly close friends and family) not only obediently followed but in which they were actively COMPLICIT. They were adamant it was for my "own good" and the "good of everyone."

Honestly, I find it very odd for otherwise "strong" people to just passively accept "change" because "that's the way it is" and it's the "new normal." Or because some perceived authority declared it to be true. VERY odd. Also sad.

When I'm told that EVs are "inevitable" or that I MUST buy a car that can be shut off remotely or even SEIZED by a 3rd party remotely driving it away... Yeah... the answer is....

No No No GIF


That's my reflex. That's my instinct for self-preservation. NOTHING good can come from doing something that I am being forced or coerced to do. I am not a moron. I'm quite sure I know what is good or not good for me.

It's the same answer for, "You must take this drug or injection." "It's for your own good!"

Also... "Get in this box car. We're going to take you to a safe place. We're the authorities. You can trust us."

When it comes to consumer goods like cars... I'll trust the Free Market, not "authority."
 
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Racer88 said:
Not in a free market, which depends ENTIRELY on what CONSUMERS prefer. See the android vs apple cell phone debates! LOL! The reality is that they're both good products. People have their preferences. And that's why they both DOMINATE the cell phone market.

There are other phones. But yeah... CONSUMER PREFERENCE plays a HUGE role in which brands and models succeed. I dare suggest it's the ONLY thing that matters. Political forces aren't trying to mandate (yet) which type of phone people have to buy.



The exact opposite of every fiber in my being. I'm a nonconformist because I do not trust the intent of those demanding conformity. And I am very much justified in that lack of trust. To wit... covid hysteria. And so many other examples.

Going along to get along is, to me, the lowest form of human existence. It's lazy. It's unproductive. It lacks integrity and being true to yourself.

Anyone who tells me to just go along because something is the "new normal" is CERTAINLY my enemy. And I do not use that term lightly. Anyone who tells me that is plotting my demise. They are to be shunned, avoided, ignored, and watched with a very wary eye. Again... covid shutdowns, rules, and policies were a TYRANNICAL agenda that USEFUL IDIOTS (including many of my formerly close friends and family) not only obediently followed but in which they were actively COMPLICIT. They were adamant it was for my "own good" and the "good of everyone."

Honestly, I find it very odd for otherwise "strong" people to just passively accept "change" because "that's the way it is" and it's the "new normal." Or because some perceived authority declared it to be true. VERY odd. Also sad.
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The free market isnt about consumer preference. That's bullshit they have been feeding the unwashed masses for two centuries. It's about industry and commerce. Mega corporations drove the Industrial Revolution. Today different mega corporations are driving what society considers the new normal. They create demand. It isnt organic. Transportation, mechanization, energy, mass production, communications, flight, and all the magical things that became everyday conveniences a century or two ago were not driven by the average schlub's demand. Progress is driven by visionaries, new discoveries, and money. And sometimes greed.

Then came computers and software. Again, this demand was created not imagined by the masses. It was driven by a new industry motivated by profit. Like their predecessors.

Nobody is asking for AI but it's coming. Nobody gives a fuck what is under the hood of their car. But EVs are coming. Like it or not. Resist? Go ahead. That's everyone's prerogative. I really don't give a shit what people do. Or don't do. If somebody wants to live under a bridge or walk around their town with a sign declaring the world is ending tomorrow, I just shrug my shoulders. Whatever.

History is littered with stories of people and cultures that resisted or simply rejected change. They always lose or are relegated to cult status. I'm OK with that too. Anybody who wants to become the New Amish is OK with me.

Conviction is a funny thing. There are a lot of people who genuinely believe that communism or socialism is best. Fascists too. Capitalism is not about consumer preferences. It's about making money without constraint or regulation. That's what a free market is all about. Supply and demand is not about asking people what they want. Never was. You build it then convince them they want it. That's how it works.
 
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