Tip! Alternate Tab Removal Method

[Michele]

I was using 115 carving bits cuz that’s what’s in my tool box. I did get the router bit. I have a ton of projects on my plate right now…If I ever get time to do another frame I’m trying it.

 

[Miltonboro]

Gave the Dremel 650 bit a shot today. Very handy. Did a hybrid method. Since I've got fret cutters I took about 80% of the tabs off with them, then used the 650 bit to trim it almost flush. Should only need some light emery board work to smooth it out.

My work with the 650 bit is a bit sloppy being the first time I ever used one. I can see getting it more uniform with practice. Definitely a useful bit. I may do the entire tab w/the 650 next time just to get more practice w/it.

 

[no4mk1t]

When you get down to close to finish, go to high speed, a light touch, and you will have very little hand sanding/touchup.

 

[Miltonboro]

When you get down to close to finish, go to high speed, a light touch, and very little hand sanding/touchup.

Will do.

 

[Cigarsbourbonandguns]

Utility knife (box cutter) method is slower but less risky and does a much cleaner job.
Just leave the frame in the jig and score/cut the tabs off using the top of the jig as a guide. Very little clean up needed and it only takes about 10 minutes. Rails look like this with little clean up.View attachment 2283

I do similar. Cut most of the tab, flex like a paper clip till it comes off, them Dremel/sandpaper

 

[Deleted member 709]

So yeah, fret cutters if you have them. But what if you don't, and you only want to build one or two and are a cheap bastard like me. Well, if you own a Dremel, the answer will only cost you about $6.

https://www.amazon.com/Dremel-650-8-Inch-Straight-Routing/dp/B00004UDIL

Been using this bit to bevel the forend on M1's for years. Turns out, it does a nice job on the P80 tabs too.
Set the speed fairly high to prevent chatter. Buzz off 90% of the tab, and then slow down and get deliberate. Take very slow, light cuts. For the final passes, let the smooth portion of the cutter shank ride on the plastic jig. You will be left with very little file/sandpaper work to finish.
Unlike the sanding drum, you can get right up in the corners and it doesn't clog with melted plastic either.

After cutting, before filing/sanding.

This is an awesome tip. I bought that bit, & it arrived yesterday. Thank you!

 

[Callducks7]

FTQ is a matter of perception. I read and still follow the Polymer 80 instruction manual which clearly states to use a hand drill, never a drill press.
Now we have folks using a Dremel in a press. In my view a drill press is unnecessary and slower than a hand drill. If you want to make a mistake FAST drill holes with a Dremel.
If you want to disfigure your frame use fret cutters.
If you want to scratch up your rails unnecessarily use sandpaper to level your rails.
Just my .02 cents.

 

[Racer88]

FTQ is a matter of perception. I read and still follow the Polymer 80 instruction manual which clearly states to use a hand drill, never a drill press.
Now we have folks using a Dremel in a press. In my view a drill press is unnecessary and slower than a hand drill. If you want to make a mistake FAST drill holes with a Dremel.
If you want to disfigure your frame use fret cutters.
If you want to scratch up your rails unnecessarily use sandpaper to level your rails. Just my .02 cents.

If I'm not mistaken, the reason P80 recommends NOT using a drill press... an actual / traditional drill press is because of cracked frames as a result. Apparently it has to do with the torque of a drill press. The Dremel doesn't have that kind of torque. It's a high-speed, low torque drill as opposed to a low-speed, high torque traditional drill press. A Dremel in a workstation and a traditional drill press are very different animals.

I've had excellent results with the Dremel in a properly set up workstation. It is very important to get it set up right BEFORE drilling.

I agree about the fret cutters, which I used on my first build. Never again.

I've never had to "level" my rails. Yet. But, I bought a diamond sharpening stone for that purpose.

 

[Michele]

FTQ is a matter of self pride. A leadership technique using a motivational saying to encourage builders to do their best, perform at their level of perfection to get a safe and great functional weapon. It excites competition, comrade and fellowship.

No need bad mouthing someone else’s technique. There’s lotsa ways to do stuff. If you don’t like MGBs way of building that’s fine, he never ever said his way was the only way. That said his instructions have helped 1000’s of new builders fashion a firearm far superior than many that don’t use the suggestions he puts out. Just go look at the newbies builds on Reddit that don’t have a good mentorship. Fret cutters scars and a few sand paper marks are the least of their woes.

 

[Racer88]

No need bad mouthing someone else’s technique. There’s lotsa ways to do stuff. If you don’t like MGBs way of building that’s fine, he never ever said his way was the only way. That said his instructions have helped 1000’s of new builders fashion a firearm far superior than many that don’t use the suggestions he puts out. Just go look at the newbies builds on Reddit that don’t have a good mentorship. Fret cutters scars and a few sand paper marks are the least of their woes.

Yep. Agreed! I watched all of MGB's videos. I followed his instructions to the letter... and 98% of it was a huge help. Maybe 2% didn't work out for me and I've spun up my own approaches. MGB never insisted his way was the only way. But, overall... they work. And, they are an excellent starting point for most novice builders.

And, @Michele is right about the aimless noobs over on Reddit. Holy cow. Many of them are diving into this with ZERO knowledge and ZERO guidance... until they screw up. There are a few helpful folks on the Reddit group. But, it's all after the fact (screw-up). Some really stunning ineptitude there.

I think the "First Time Quality" mantra is brilliant in it's conception and usage. There is no single "FTQ" standard. It's really an exhortation to "do your best." My own advice to noobs is to SLOW DOWN. Take your time. It really doesn't matter which tools you use. Use them competently. Give Tiger Woods a crude set of sticks, and he'll out-drive any of us even if we are equipped with the best clubs money can buy.

 

[Callducks7]

FTQ is a matter of self pride. A leadership technique using a motivational saying to encourage builders to do their best, perform at their level of perfection to get a safe and great functional weapon. It excites competition, comrade and fellowship.

No need bad mouthing someone else’s technique. There’s lotsa ways to do stuff. If you don’t like MGBs way of building that’s fine, he never ever said his way was the only way. That said his instructions have helped 1000’s of new builders fashion a firearm far superior than many that don’t use the suggestions he puts out. Just go look at the newbies builds on Reddit that don’t have a good mentorship. Fret cutters scars and a few sand paper marks are the least of their woes.

I did not bad mouth anyone. I simply pointed out weaknesses in techniques not people!
It is YOU that continually attack me.
Read my post again, you are overreacting because you feel threatened.
I could care less what technique you want to use.
So here's a bit of a critique.

You just want to teach and preach, and are set in yours ways.

Fine, your privilage, others are obviously open to new methods.
That is what this thread is about.
Please stop harassing me.

Have a great day!

 

[Racer88]

I did not bad mouth anyone. I simply pointed out weaknesses in techniques not people!
It is YOU that continually attack me.
Read my post again, you are overreacting because you feel threatened.
I could care less what technique you want to use.
So here's a bit of a critique.

You just want to teach and preach, and are set in yours ways.

Fine, your privilage, others are obviously open to new methods.
That is what this thread is about.
Please stop harassing me.

Have a great day!

Enough. Really. Nobody is "harassing" anyone.

Again... we can offer alternative techniques WITHOUT disparaging the others, which seems to be your tendency.

MGB offered a structured and well-documented approach for new builders. And it absolutely works. But he also urged everyone to "innovate" and "share." Besides "First time quality," his other mantra was: Learn, innovate, share. His goal was to inspire.

Spend just a few minutes on the P80 Reddit group, and you'll instantly see why MGB's quest was necessary and successful to those who found his video series. Seriously. Go check out the Reddit group. It's a different "world."

@Michele is a master builder in her own right - and quite the artistic flair. Seriously talented. You are also a master builder. Just chill and share your experience and knowledge without the snark and disparaging alternative techniques and perspectives. It's obvious that you know your stuff and have a lot to share.... and like to share.

You're not going to build yourself up by tearing down others.... especially the inspirational "MGB," who has a LOT of friends here (myself included).

 

[Callducks7]

Racer, I just pulled up the online Polymer 80 instruction manual. It strongly recommends using a hand drill.
I don't know about frame cracking with a press.
I remember problems with the end mill. Maybe that's why they don't include it anymore.
I know most guys don't like reading instructions. However,
I do (sometimes).
I'll bet most of those screwed up frames you pictured happened with Dremel! There are folks out there that can monkey fist anything.
My statement in the post you are talking about includes all Dremel use.
I really wish folks would stop picking my posts apart because they feel threatened. MGB has already self abdicated. Nuff said.

 

[Racer88]

Racer, I just pulled up the online Polymer 80 instruction manual. It strongly recommends using a hand drill.
I don't know about frame cracking with a press.
I remember problems with the end mill. Maybe that's why they don't include it anymore.
I know most guys don't like reading instructions. However,
I do (sometimes).
I'll bet most of those screwed up frames you pictured happened with Dremel! There are folks out there that can monkey fist anything.
My statement in the post you are talking about includes all Dremel use.
I really wish folks would stop picking my posts apart because they feel threatened. MGB has already self abdicated. Nuff said.

I forget who, but someone (on the old forum) contacted Polymer80 about the issues with a drill press. It might have even been MGB. Whoever it was... Polymer80 informed him / her that the issue is with the torque causing cracks in the frame. They were referring to traditional drill presses. So much so, that they had to put that disclaimer in the instructions and that it would void the warranty.

The Dremel in a workstation could certainly be mistaken for a "drill press," but it isn't. The big difference is that the Dremel isn't a traditional drill. It's really not a drill at all. It's a rotary tool. It's MUCH higher speed and much lower torque than any traditional drill press.

But, yes... a high speed rotary tool in the hands of a ham-fisted noob who had not availed himself / herself to some guidance (most conveniently with videos by an experienced builder)... can be disastrous. But, I dare say that a manual tool in the hands of person who has not yet achieved some dexterity can also be disastrous. It's not the tool. It's the hands that guide it.

That's why my advice, regardless of the tool being used, is to... SLOW DOWN.

Frame cutters work. They work quickly, and it's hard to screw up. But, yeah... I didn't like the result, cosmetically. I'm just "OCD" that way.

So, I tried it. It worked. The gun works. But, I thought there must be other ways. "Learn, innovate, share" as MGB said.

One elegantly simple way is a utility knife! Shazam! Who knew? You knew! Works a charm and doesn't leave the stress marks in the frame.

Of course, I channeled "Tim the Toolman Taylor" and exclaimed, "We need more power!" So, I came up with my own approach that also works very well. But, it is not for inexperienced builders or builders who don't have "good hands."

View: https://rumble.com/vs3h1s-n-alternative-way-to-remove-p80-frame-tabs.-proceed-at-your-own-risk.html

I've got some more video that I just haven't taken the time to edit, yet.

In the end, I'll just say we'd all appreciate it if we could avoid implied deprecation of other techniques and other builders who use those techniques:

If you want to make a mistake FAST drill holes with a Dremel.
If you want to disfigure your frame use fret cutters.
If you want to scratch up your rails unnecessarily use sandpaper to level your rails.

 

[Callducks7]

I forget who, but someone (on the old forum) contacted Polymer80 about the issues with a drill press. It might have even been MGB. Whoever it was... Polymer80 informed him / her that the issue is with the torque causing cracks in the frame. They were referring to traditional drill presses. So much so, that they had to put that disclaimer in the instructions and that it would void the warranty.

The Dremel in a workstation could certainly be mistaken for a "drill press," but it isn't. The big difference is that the Dremel isn't a traditional drill. It's really not a drill at all. It's a rotary tool. It's MUCH higher speed and much lower torque than any traditional drill press.

But, yes... a high speed rotary tool in the hands of a ham-fisted noob who had not availed himself / herself to some guidance (most conveniently with videos by an experienced builder)... can be disastrous. But, I dare say that a manual tool in the hands of person who has not yet achieved some dexterity can also be disastrous. It's not the tool. It's the hands that guide it.

That's why my advice, regardless of the tool being used, is to... SLOW DOWN.

Frame cutters work. They work quickly, and it's hard to screw up. But, yeah... I didn't like the result, cosmetically. I'm just "OCD" that way.

So, I tried it. It worked. The gun works. But, I thought there must be other ways. "Learn, innovate, share" as MGB said.

One elegantly simple way is a utility knife! Shazam! Who knew? You knew! Works a charm and doesn't leave the stress marks in the frame.

Of course, I channeled "Tim the Toolman Taylor" and exclaimed, "We need more power!" So, I came up with my own approach that also works very well. But, it is not for inexperienced builders or builders who don't have "good hands."

View: https://rumble.com/vs3h1s-n-alternative-way-to-remove-p80-frame-tabs.-proceed-at-your-own-risk.html

I've got some more video that I just haven't taken the time to edit, yet.

In the end, I'll just say we'd all appreciate it if we could avoid implied deprecation of other techniques and other builders who use those techniques:

 

[Callducks7]

I just have one question. Who reads my mind to to decide that what my intent was. Lot's of builders use techniques I don't care for. So I can't state "I don't like this technique because" Who else is under this rule:

Suggestions for these rulings : 3/16 Committee

 

[Racer88]

I just have one question. Who reads my mind to to decide that what my intent was. Lot's of builders use techniques I don't care for. So I can't state "I don't like this technique because" Who else is under this rule:

Suggestions for these rulings : 3/16 Committee

I personally believe that your intent is good (and have defended you thusly). But, I'm pointing out how some of it comes across in text form on the forum.

I don't know what "3/16 committee" means.

I think you have contributed a lot with your knowledge. I hope you continue. Just be aware of how you're saying some things. Same goes for everyone else.

 

[Callducks7]

I personally believe that your intent is good (and have defended you thusly). But, I'm pointing out how some of it comes across in text form on the forum.

I don't know what "3/16 committee" means.

I think you have contributed a lot with your knowledge. I hope you continue. Just be aware of how you're saying some things. Same goes for everyone else.

Yeah, long ago I had a manager who pointed that out. My response was "I just call a spade a spade" and his response was, " No, you call it a fucking shovel.

Let me point something out, you make excuses for folks that are WAY to thin skinned. If they can't take a little criticism of a technique, maybe they should block me.
Some times when I appear to be winning a point or make a response to someone who criticised me I get shouted down openly.
Another thing, on my last thread when I was trying to be detailed about my latest build you Trolled me.
When I pointed out the mag catch spring broke on the catch I received from 80P. You said "maybe you should watch the MGB video". That's what pissed me off!I

BTW, the 3/16 comment was a brain fart on my part.
I meant the January 6th Committee. It was a joke!

Anyway, it's good we both got things off our chest. What I like to do is help people fix their problems.
I like to at least provide my own approach not that of someone else.
Some folks are followers, some folks are leaders. It takes both kinds.

 

[Racer88]

Yeah, long ago I had a manager who pointed that out. My response was "I just call a spade a spade" and his response was, " No, you call it a fucking shovel.

LOL! Well, there ya go!

Let me point something out, you make excuses for folks that are WAY to thin skinned. If they can't take a little criticism of a technique, maybe they should block me.

I agree that some folks are thin-skinned. I've run into that myself. But, I'll point out that I've made "excuses" for you, too! Haha! I have! I think you're a good guy who is eminently BLUNT. In person is different than written (in text) on a forum. So, folks can take it the wrong way. Again... Ask me how I know! I can be that way sometimes, too!

Another thing, on my last thread when I was trying to be detailed about my latest build you Trolled me.
When I pointed out the mag catch spring broke on the catch I received from 80P. You said "maybe you should watch the MGB video". That's what pissed me off!I

LOL! I was KIDDING! I'm pretty sure I put a "" in there. It was a joke.

BTW, the 3/16 comment was a brain fart on my part.
I meant the January 6th Committee. It was a joke!

Ah! I read it literally. Ha! I was thinking "what is a 3/16th committee?" LOL!

Anyway, it's good we both got things off our chest. What I like to do is help people fix their problems.
I like to at least provide my own approach not that of someone else.

Absolutely. You have some good info to share, no doubt. And you have actively done so.

Your approach is pretty much the opposite of mine. You're a minimalist "KISS" (keep it simple) when it comes to building. I'm more of an OCD "maximalist" when it comes to tools and bling. Ha! Then look at the artwork of @Michele, @Mooner, and @Hawkeye ! Holy cow! And, it's all good! It allows noobs to see / experience different ends of the technique spectrum that all work.

My dad always said, "Don't argue with success."

You also have to understand that since I'm the "Kahuna" here (for better or worse!), I have to try to keep most of the people happy. I try... to a point. I'm hoping that we are adults who can manage ourselves without a lot of "moderation." I don't want to be a hard-ass. But, I do prefer that folks just be nice to each other. We're on the same team!

MGB is revered by many here for good reason. He may have temporarily taken a "leave of absence." The reasons don't matter. I've learned at this point in my life that, "You never know what other people are dealing with." But, he set some standards that many would do well to heed. (Again, go look at Reddit!) And he created a community for 80% builders where none existed before. And I can tell you that the amount of energy and work it takes to EXTENSIVELY DOCUMENT (written and video) techniques to that level of quality... is TREMENDOUS. I can speak from experience. It's a LOT of work... and MUST be a "labor of love."

I can tell you that just building this forum... a labor of love, for sure! The number of hours I've put into it is unfathomable. Insane, really. Ask my wife! LOL!

 

[Callducks7]

Believe me MGB commercials aren't necessary I get it. It is soooooo boring post after post.
BTW, I do most of my posts on my cell and emojis aren't available for some reason. I am trying to use it more often but it feels silly to me.
No snowflakes in my family.