Nice rig!
Slightly modded shockwave
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Has anyone checked out the DeSantis Kurz? I found it to be the best scabbard for a shorty. My requirement is to be able to pull the shockwave or other shorty up and over my shoulder and present it in one swift motion. Without being a contortionist or it hanging up, making a smooth draw difficult.
www.desantisholster.com
I found the softer leather style works better than stiff leather or nylon scabbards. It's got a Western vibe and doesn’t look tacticool but it works for me.
KURZ SHOTGUN CASE
Desantis Holster is an online store for inside the waistband holsters, pistol holsters, Taurus, pistol, pancake holsters, holsters for springfield XD, walther, handgun, GLOCK IWB, GLOCK 22 and leather holsters for 1911.
www.desantisholster.com
I found the softer leather style works better than stiff leather or nylon scabbards. It's got a Western vibe and doesn’t look tacticool but it works for me.
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Has anyone checked out the DeSantis Kurz? I found it to be the best scabbard for a shorty. My requirement is to be able to pull the shockwave or other shorty up and over my shoulder and present it in one swift motion. Without being a contortionist or it hanging up, making a smooth draw difficult.
View attachment 17594
KURZ SHOTGUN CASE
Desantis Holster is an online store for inside the waistband holsters, pistol holsters, Taurus, pistol, pancake holsters, holsters for springfield XD, walther, handgun, GLOCK IWB, GLOCK 22 and leather holsters for 1911.
I found the softer leather style works better than stiff leather or nylon scabbards. It's got a Western vibe and doesn’t look tacticool but it works for me.
Looks nice. Will it work with a light / laser mounted on the front? I see the scabbard tapers a bit there in the front.
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The pic is a little distorted but if you check the web site you can gauge the taper at the muzzle end. There 's nothing inside for a light to catch on so it might be OK. It depends on the size of the torch. There's a lot of gear on the end of that magazine so the gun might not insert all the way. Maybe move the torch to the side vs bottom.
It has worked well for me with the V-Tac and the 12 and 20 ga shockwave. But I dont have a torch on the muzzle or fore grip.
My home defense opinion is all firearms for that purpose should have a light. The scabbard for me was about hiking. I wanted to experiment with the practicality of carrying a shortie on a trail and being able to deploy it quickly. The DeSantis was the only scabbard that worked for me. The nylon and stiff canvas ones in particular were too stiff/tight and also tended the ride up with the gun when you grab the birdshead and pull upward. .
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Has anyone checked out the DeSantis Kurz? I found it to be the best scabbard for a shorty. My requirement is to be able to pull the shockwave or other shorty up and over my shoulder and present it in one swift motion. Without being a contortionist or it hanging up, making a smooth draw difficult.
View attachment 17594
KURZ SHOTGUN CASE
Desantis Holster is an online store for inside the waistband holsters, pistol holsters, Taurus, pistol, pancake holsters, holsters for springfield XD, walther, handgun, GLOCK IWB, GLOCK 22 and leather holsters for 1911.
I found the softer leather style works better than stiff leather or nylon scabbards. It's got a Western vibe and doesn’t look tacticool but it works for me.
I've considered that one, but read a lot of reviews that the snaps and fittings fall off easily. That has been keeping me away from it. I do very much like the look of it.
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I haven't experienced that but I should mention that I carefully cut off that strap at the mouth. I cut the stitching and removed it. I guess it helps secure the gun but that wasn't my mission. My thing was keeping it reasonably secure but be able to yank it out while walking or even running. The strap got in the way. I found the retention without the strap perfectly fine.
I should also mention the shell holster was fine but I never used it. Also removed. Tits on a board hog for my scenario. You cant reach the shells behind your back. I prefer having spare shells on my belt or on the gun. But that's probably an artifact of when I was more active in 3 gun. On a horse or an ATV, the shell holster attached to the scabbard might make more sense. I have five shells in a rig mounted to the gun itself.
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Scabbard came on yesterday.
Added some molly packs I had left over. I am impressed in the quality of the scabbard. Shockwave fit nice but not to snug until the shell caddy, that is when it gets tight.
To fix this I put a 3-inch spacer made of hard foam i the bottom.
It worked out better, I think. Makes grabbing the grip easier and it doesn't feel too tight around the shell holder.
Extra shells and if i need to add my sling, it is in the lower bag.
This really goes with my Jeep, just sling it over the driver's seat and go. The Jeep has a lot of molly pack set-ups all over the interior of the Jeep. I can't believe it was just $20 bucks, with shipping and tax total cost was $30, I'm happy
Added some molly packs I had left over. I am impressed in the quality of the scabbard. Shockwave fit nice but not to snug until the shell caddy, that is when it gets tight.
To fix this I put a 3-inch spacer made of hard foam i the bottom.
It worked out better, I think. Makes grabbing the grip easier and it doesn't feel too tight around the shell holder.
Extra shells and if i need to add my sling, it is in the lower bag.
This really goes with my Jeep, just sling it over the driver's seat and go. The Jeep has a lot of molly pack set-ups all over the interior of the Jeep. I can't believe it was just $20 bucks, with shipping and tax total cost was $30, I'm happy
Just an FYI...a shockwave is not a shotgun. It's an "other" firearm., which accounts for why it can have a 14" bbl. Presently it's legal to have a brace on an "other" firearm and a pistol as well. That could change again so just be aware.
I would NOT add a brace to a Shockwave. From what I understand, the Shockwave's alphabet agency approval (as "other weapon") was based on the birdshead grip.
If you remove the grip (to attach anything else), you are treading on thin ice. It shortens the OAL (overall length), and I don't believe the brace counts towards the OAL. And the Shockwave was not designed to be fired with one hand, like a pistol (which can justify the brace). It's all quite vague... I simply wouldn't take the chance.
That all said...
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Good advice.
The Shockwave is not an AOW. That would require a stamp.
The Ayteeeff does not declare what type of gun it is. Other than it is not a shotgun because it is not designed to be shot from the shoulder. Weird, but true. It is classified as Non-NFA. Mainly because it cannot be shouldered. And length of course.
In addition to a shotgun with short barrel and stock (SBS), another variant can also be a AOW . Like the Serbu Shortie, which had a Remington receiver, or the equivalent Mossberg whose name I have forgotten. The mossy is slightly longer than the Serbu. Both are like hens teeth now. The SBS is a $200 stamp and the AOW is $5. Go figure.
I concur making any mods to a Shockwave - beyond sights, a sling, or one of those shell holders - is a bad idea. Especially a brace of any kind. I've see LEs with shotguns that have a pistol grip and a fold-over brace. But that's more like a Defender, not the Shockwave. If the barrel is long enough, it's legal. I saw a CHIP cop with one of those mounted on his motor and it looked shortened to me - but I wasn't 100% sure.
Anecdote: I don't like jagged breacher barrel accessories. The gun makes a better club than it does a spear. Nor am I going to use my weapon with a thin barrel to bust a door off the hinges. Cops don't do that either.
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The key reason the Shockwave exists legally as a "firearm" and not a shotgun is that it is made that way from the factory. Up until Black Ace Tactical started making new clone Mossberg shotgun receivers, you couldn't lawfully make this type of weapon because you had to start with an existing shotgun to modify. This then becomes "a weapon made from a shotgun", which still classifies it as a shotgun legally.
No manufacturer up until then sold virgin receivers. Black Ace lawyers essentially beat AFT over the head with their own rulebook and found this loophole. The Shockwave does not fit the legal definition of a shotgun, or a weapon made from a shotgun, which is the catch-all legal term for all short barreled, no stock shotguns.
However, you could lawfully construct a Shockwave style weapon from a virgin Black Ace Tactical receiver as it has never legally been a shotgun.
Black Ace later went on to market complete Shockwave type firearms. Not sure if they still do or not. When they were the only game in town, they commanded a pretty penny. Mossberg and Remington undercut their price, so they may have abandoned the field.
Mossberg, then Remington jumped on the bandwagon when they saw AFT allow this category of weapon to be sold without a stamp.
I agree that to keep this type of weapon in the "firearm" category, you should limit accessories to lights, lasers, sights, and shell carriers. No shoulder stock unless you want to file a Form 1 and pay the $200 to make it into a SBS. If so, have the stamp in hand before installing the stock.
No manufacturer up until then sold virgin receivers. Black Ace lawyers essentially beat AFT over the head with their own rulebook and found this loophole. The Shockwave does not fit the legal definition of a shotgun, or a weapon made from a shotgun, which is the catch-all legal term for all short barreled, no stock shotguns.
However, you could lawfully construct a Shockwave style weapon from a virgin Black Ace Tactical receiver as it has never legally been a shotgun.
Black Ace later went on to market complete Shockwave type firearms. Not sure if they still do or not. When they were the only game in town, they commanded a pretty penny. Mossberg and Remington undercut their price, so they may have abandoned the field.
Mossberg, then Remington jumped on the bandwagon when they saw AFT allow this category of weapon to be sold without a stamp.
I agree that to keep this type of weapon in the "firearm" category, you should limit accessories to lights, lasers, sights, and shell carriers. No shoulder stock unless you want to file a Form 1 and pay the $200 to make it into a SBS. If so, have the stamp in hand before installing the stock.
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Welcome to the forum, mac66!
Actually, any pistol grip "shotgun" that came from the factory with a pistol grip installed isn't really a shotgun. It's an "other firearm" because it wasn't made or intended to be fired from the shoulder. So technically a Mossberg "cruiser" or similar pistol grip gun could be modified into a shockwave with a pistol brace as well. The key thing is that an "other" can't be less than 26" OAL which is why it has a birdshead grip instead of a pistol grip. Pistol grip w/14" bbl is under 26 OAL, Birdshead grip with 14" bbl is 26.5" OAL
Speaking of the Black Aces, I bought a receiver from them and made it into as shockwave type weapon. 14" bbls and mag tubes weren't available at the time so I used a 18" bbl cut down to 15" and a regular mag tube. Technically my Black Aces "shockwave" could have a pistol grip on it because the bbl is 15" not 14" and the receiver is an inch longer than the Mossberg receiver and thus is over 26" long overall.
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When I could not get a Remington Vtac 13 anywhere and Gunbroker bandits were asking $1900, I bought a Black Aces shorty semiauto in 12 ga expecting it to be mediocre. It was worse. It would not cycle a single shell. This is unusual for a shotgun - or a not a shotgun that fires shotshells. They gave me a song and dance about "break in". It's not break in when a gun cannot fire two consecutive rounds. I called bullshit on that. I demanded an RMA number and warranty repair. They reluctantly agreed.
It came back in about two weeks not much better. Still incredibly unreliable. The bolt would frequently get 'stuck' and you had to make the gun safe then disassemble the receiver to unfuck it. I was pissed and called the main office, asking to speak to the Big Cheese. To my surprise, Eric Lemoine took the call. I explained what the situation was. He said we will get you a shipping label, send it back, we will make it right. And they did.
The gun shot OK after coming back to me the second time, but I'd never trust it. You get what you pay for with guns. A cheap shorty shotty half the price of its nearest competitor runs half as good as its nearest competitor. I did eventually get the Remington VTAC 13 for $800.
It came back in about two weeks not much better. Still incredibly unreliable. The bolt would frequently get 'stuck' and you had to make the gun safe then disassemble the receiver to unfuck it. I was pissed and called the main office, asking to speak to the Big Cheese. To my surprise, Eric Lemoine took the call. I explained what the situation was. He said we will get you a shipping label, send it back, we will make it right. And they did.
The gun shot OK after coming back to me the second time, but I'd never trust it. You get what you pay for with guns. A cheap shorty shotty half the price of its nearest competitor runs half as good as its nearest competitor. I did eventually get the Remington VTAC 13 for $800.
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This guy makes a compelling argument that a shotgun with a bird's head grip w/ wrist strap is an all around more useful defensive weapon than one with a shoulder stock.
View: https://youtu.be/OI1CqL9K1m0?si=A1sWzxcGwQiounfA
Starting with an 18.5 or longer barrel also gives the versatility of reinstalling the shoulder stock at will and avoids the NFA, giving the owner the freedom to roam about the nation at will.
He has quite a few videos about BHG shotgun techniques, the key is to use the push-pull grip on the gun which he says also makes one a better shooter when a stock is in use...
it might be worth trying this with my 930JM Pro to see if I can learn this technique without buying a new gun.
View: https://youtu.be/OI1CqL9K1m0?si=A1sWzxcGwQiounfA
Starting with an 18.5 or longer barrel also gives the versatility of reinstalling the shoulder stock at will and avoids the NFA, giving the owner the freedom to roam about the nation at will.
He has quite a few videos about BHG shotgun techniques, the key is to use the push-pull grip on the gun which he says also makes one a better shooter when a stock is in use...
it might be worth trying this with my 930JM Pro to see if I can learn this technique without buying a new gun.
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In close quarter combat, I agree with his guy 100%. I've considered replacing the stock on a Beretta A300 TAC with a birds head. It is one of the best tactical shotguns on the planet. Unless you also consider the Benelli which as we know is also a Beretta. The semi auto M4 might be interesting without a stock, but it costs more than the Beretta.
Some believe a pump is better suited on a shorty. I prefer the Remington action to the Mossberg, but both are dead-ass reliable.
My Remington VTAC semi auto shorty can put a half pound of lead in the air in three seconds. There's absolutely no defense against that. A Kel-Tec KSG by virtue of two mag tubes can put a pound of lead in the air - slugs and shot - as fast as you can pull the trigger. I can empty it in about five or six seconds.
I've been a wing shooter and into clays since I was a kid. Depending on the situation, including some defensive or offensive tactical scenarios, a stock can be beneficial. A skilled shotgunner with the Benelli M4 is a force to be reckoned with. It's why the US Marines adopted it.
I'm an above average pistol shooter. I'm also very competent in clays. Long range... I can ring steel at 600-800 yards easily enough but don't practice enough to be great. In hunting, I have very seldom taken a shot longer than 300 yards. I'm good enough to not miss. It's difficult to make an ethical kill shot beyond 300 yards.
Anyway... I never met a gun I didn't like. But there is really no defense against someone who knows how to handle a shotgun. Unless the perpetrator gets the drop on him. I believe that at close range, there is no deadlier weapon. Even for someone who is not highly skilled.
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Building off your thoughts, BL, here is the sweetest sounding guy on the 'tubes demonstrating how to use a shockwave type gun for skeet and bird hunting. He is very methodical and deadly as a hunter!
View: https://youtu.be/Ass6RrsaPS4?si=tvBUJyVMgJXe9_SY
For those in AWB states, or soon to become, here's a good case for BHG shotties over an AR.
View: https://youtu.be/Vwi_EBPbwI8?si=sfMLXVLgzaRLKpgD
It seems like an pump variety 18"+ BHG shotgun would escape any assault weapon ban currently in the dreams of our most freedom-hating rulers. This makes me want to learn how to use one as the legislature in my single party ruled state has crafted bills the past couple of yesrs that would make me a felon for owning most of the guns in my collection. It has also spurred my interest in learning to shoot a revolver well.
View: https://youtu.be/Ass6RrsaPS4?si=tvBUJyVMgJXe9_SY
For those in AWB states, or soon to become, here's a good case for BHG shotties over an AR.
View: https://youtu.be/Vwi_EBPbwI8?si=sfMLXVLgzaRLKpgD
It seems like an pump variety 18"+ BHG shotgun would escape any assault weapon ban currently in the dreams of our most freedom-hating rulers. This makes me want to learn how to use one as the legislature in my single party ruled state has crafted bills the past couple of yesrs that would make me a felon for owning most of the guns in my collection. It has also spurred my interest in learning to shoot a revolver well.
Yeah, the Black Aces used Saiga 12 mags until it didn't. I have a Saiga 12 which is why I bought the BA and I thought a 10 shot detachable mag "shockwave" type weapon would be kinda of cool. Try as I may and even after modifying Saiga mags I could never get the BA to run reliably. I ended up mounting my Moss 500 black powder barrel on it and use it as a muzzle loader. I paid $95 for the BA receiver, another 50 for the internal parts. I had grips, stocks, barrels left over from some beater shotguns I picked up over the years.
The BA , a work in progress...
First Test Fire w/o mag
And set up as a muzzle loader. I did kill a doe with it during the December doe season so there's that
I could never get the mag to feed more than 1 round
The difference between a Mossberg 500 18" bbl and a Mossberg Shockwave
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I have a Saiga 12 ga that took me for-freakin ever to get dialed in and make it run reliably. Even rockstar shooter Jerry Miculek gave up on the Saiga. It had the potential to be an awesome tactical 12 gauge. Some people still love them. The good news is I can sell it for close to double what I paid. Go figure.
I made a lot of modifications and upgrades to that gun. Now it's truly a Frankengun. There's still a pretty healthy aftermarket for performance parts.
I made a lot of modifications and upgrades to that gun. Now it's truly a Frankengun. There's still a pretty healthy aftermarket for performance parts.
My Saiga 12 ran like clockwork from the get go. I converted it from the sporter style to AK style pistol grip etc and really didn't do much else. It even runs with drum mags. As for performance parts, I always was kind of in the "don't fix it if it ain't broke" school. Been probably a decade since I shot it, probably should drag it out and run it a bit.