The House passed the budget with the HPA!

Bobster said:
An interesting look at silencers ("moderators") is to look at jolly ol' England. This article is from 2014 so a LOT has changed in England regarding moderators but a lot still applies. LINK I'm not sure of the exact laws/requirements now, but they have made them licenseable, then removed the requirement and they are also required on many guns.

You want to talk about a nanny state, look at England and their STUPID parliamentary system... :rolleyes:
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Actually, suppressor use is very common in Europe, and mandatory in some nations. Different culture and they had there own problems back in the 1930's, while our media demonized suppressors as the tools of criminals, leading to them being in the NFA in the first place. Oh the misguided things we do to ourselves.
 
The more I think about this, we as a group, should probably start thinking seriously about the subject of building our own suppressors out of necessity. I don't know what the pent up demand is for commercially made suppressors is, but listening to the comments of dealers who sell them now, it is a very niche market with limited capacity to produce them.

In other words... we get our wish and suppressors are no longer NFA items, then the supply of those suppressors gets so small compared to the demand. We may face a couple years of not being able to find one in stock at any price. (Kinda like camping out on PSA's web site for the moment another batch of Daggers goes on sale.)

I would suggest starting to gather up pdf files, notes, and plans for how to make a good suppressor. Maybe even start searching for a Polymer80 type of company who is willing to explore a Finish it Yourself kind of product to fill the demand.
 
clm2112 said:
In other words... we get our wish and suppressors are no longer NFA items, then the supply of those suppressors gets so small compared to the demand. We may face a couple years of not being able to find one in stock at any price. (Kinda like camping out on PSA's web site for the moment another batch of Daggers goes on sale.)
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Supply and demand. Ultimately the manufacturers want to make as much money as possible, and the BEST way to do that is to crank'em out! They'll find a way. If they don't, the other guy will.
 
Ok, second message sent to one of my state's U.S. Senators (Dave McCormick), asking him to please be the one who adds SBR's and SBS's to the language of the Hearing Protection Act. I'd send a message to the other PA Senator, John Fetterman, but I'm not sure he can even read at this point.

The next ones are the senators on the Senate Finance Committee. That would be Senators Danes, Cruz, and Crapo. to put the SHORT act into the budget bill in addition to the HPA
 
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Some thoughts on suppressors...

A 22 can should be your first suppressor. You will use it the most and get the most enjoyment from it. Go thread mount as opposed to integral so you can put it on both rifles and pistols. Buy one that is user serviceable and not made from aluminum. Coat the insides with a silicone grease before first use. This will make cleaning much easier.

CCI Std. velocity is your go to ammo for rifle use. Contrary to what the label says, CCI SV and Subsonic both run at 1050fps. Try other subsonic if you like, but you will come back to CCI for accuracy, consistency, and availability. Buy it by the case in the paper 50 rnd. boxes.

For pistol, as long as the barrel is 5" or less, regular bulk pack will stay subsonic and work just fine.

CF pistol suppressors are more of a novelty than something you will shoot a lot. You will need tall suppressor sights to see over the round cans, or a red dot. Most CF pistol cans are aluminum and not user serviceable. You will want to shoot jacketed or powder coated if you shoot lead.
CF pistol cans are more useful on pistol caliber carbines though. Don't forget the lever guns for some old school cool fun.

Everyone wants to get a can for their AR. A couple of things to remember. 5.56 cans are typically 1-3/8" in diameter so as not to be as muzzle heavy as the 30 cal. cans that are 1-1/2". This reduces internal volume and consequently is a trade off in noise reduction.
Subsonic 5.56 ammo is an elusive beast. I've never shot any, but I've heard it exists but is pricey. A better solution for subsonic with the AR platform is 300 BLK. Get one with pistol gas if you want to shoot subs.

A 30 caliber can should probably be your #2 purchase. It can be used on any caliber smaller than 30 as well.
A CF rifle can is fairly heavy unless you spend the $$ and go Ti. Consequently, you will have to re-zero after installing the can.
A nice plus is recoil reduction. Your 308 will recoil like a 243 when the suppressor is mounted.

For the intrepid Form 1 peeps that want to try their hand at making a 22 can and have the machinery. I have the baffle prints for the first gen SWR Spectre.

And for those wanting to compare cans using real world independent 3rd party test data, look here.


View: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JC_7J7nNUT3LnHkBAf1PXtfJM-IlNVVb2NV_ajU_TiE/edit?gid=441512250#gid=441512250
 
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clm2112 said:
I would suggest starting to gather up pdf files, notes, and plans for how to make a good suppressor. Maybe even start searching for a Polymer80 type of company who is willing to explore a Finish it Yourself kind of product to fill the demand.
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That's a good idea, but in the meantime, buy a printer.
There's plenty of good designs out there now for 3d printed suppressor and I suspect there'll be a lot more if this bill passes.
I'm not going to suggest that a printed suppressor would come close to the durability of a metal machined suppressor, but for the price, you could probably print a suppressor everyday for a year and still spend less than your average machined suppressor.

There's also the fact that it's a given that you can print more intricate baffle designs to help suppression.
And the weight, add that in and 3d printed suppressors are definitely a sound choice.
 
Bobster said:
CONTACT YOUR SENATORS NOW! ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE SQUISHY!!!
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I prefer to not wake my Senators. As both are Democrats, they are all set to vote no on anything that comes in front of them without even reading it. I wouldn't want to inform them that there is a 2A issue in the BBB. That would give them more time to call to action the anti 2A masses that seem to rule Colorado right now and get them working on legislation to ban them at a state level.
 
Well, I sent a message to the other PA Senator, John Potatoehead...er...Fetterman....

Listen, I know the Dems are going to howl obscenities over this, but there is a point where they too must face political realities, especially if they are in purple states that are leaning more conservative. So it is worth a shot.

My message to Senator Fetterman was substantially different from the one I sent to Republican Senator McCormick. And I suggest the same approach to all the Democrat senators. It was an appeal to correct a historic wrong done to the American people nearly a century ago. Which is true, the NFA was passed out of fear and targeted specifically at lower class people. The NFA stripped a right from people who simply couldn't afford to exercise it, while a wealthy few could pay the tax if they wished. And, as a liberal minded politician, the Senator should correct this wrong.

I don't know if it will ever get read, or have any impact at all. But shame on me if I didn't try to make a persuasive argument.

(edit: For those who want the historical reference, the impetus for the NFA was the activities of immigrants in organized crime and the labor movement in the 1920's and early 1930's. The attempted assassination of President-elect FDR by an Italian immigrant in 1933 was the last straw. The politicians of the time would have been quite familiar with both organized crime violence, as well as organized labor violence, such as the battles of Mantewan and Blair Mountain that took place in the West Virginia coal fields in 1920 and 1921. So, both Republicans and Democrats were motivated to disarm the lower class. Hence, the NFA went through Congress. The excessive taxation of handguns didn't make it through as part of the NFA... which is a curious anomaly in and of itself. So, in short, the NFA was born in fear of civil war in an economic depression. It was considered unconstitutional back then, but the fear of a war in the streets prevailed.)
 
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The issue now is, how much will the Senate muck with the bill? Will that section even remain in there when it comes up for a Senate Vote? The 'no tax on senior citizens' has already been replaced with a $4000 deduction by the pukes in the House. They screwed the seniors HARD here, whilst giving the middle class wage-earners a serious, unprecedented boost on taxless overtime and tips. If I already posted this, forgive the redundancy:

Here is the win-lose situation with the Big Beautiful Bill as it stands right now. Please allow me to illustrate.

When I worked for Edison (PUC) for 26 years, we were IBEW employees, under a labor contract. It’s been almost 20 years since I left but here are some factoids I recall:

Said contract included overtime clauses that within given parameters, you just didn’t get time and a half, but double and even TRIPLE-time compensation.

Anything over consecutive 8 hours a day- Time and a half, up to 12 hrs daily, and after that it was double time if you exceeded twelve hours in a day.

Emergency callouts: DOUBLETIME.

And there were triple-time situations too. Say, a holiday (paid) in which you got called-out. TRIPLE TIME. Cha-chinggg.

Now, given the tax structure at the time, because you made more $$, it put you in a higher tax bracket; meaning, anything more than 12 hours of overtime earned in a two week pay period caused you exponential diminishing returns. As a result, many times the Govt would get more of your paycheck than you did. So I did my best to keep it to no more than 12 hrs overtime per 80 hr Bi-Weekly interval. Storms, or other emergencies that demanded mandatory work over-rode that, and you’d just grimace and deal with it. While Uncle Cram, I mean Sam, I mean the IRS, got their nice hefty slice.

So all these middle-class folks today under similar union contract jobs, have those same similar parameters, depending on their negotiated contract with said applicable labor union. Police, firefighters, public utility workers, etc….they all just got a massive, MASSIVE NET PAY INCREASE with this big, beautiful bill. While I do NOT begrudge them one bit, I call FOUL, when seniors, on a meager, fixed income, will not enjoy a similar if not equitable gift to their monthly fixed income by NO TAX ON SOCIAL SECURITY….but simply are allowed a $4000 deduction. Whoopee. They, WE (as in myself and others here) are getting screwed. HARD.

UNLESS….there is more to come that POTUS has already factored-in, in his incremental steps. One can hope and pray.
 
One thing I have seen in the bill that I am not crazy about is the increase of the SALT cap. Basically people in blue states who vote themselves high local and state taxes get to deduct more from their federal tax liability than lower taxed states which leaves a lot us picking up more of the tab. Frankly I think the SALT cap ought to be 0. What one pays state and local should have no bearing on federal tax assessed.
 
Yeah, on the total Big Beautiful Bill, there are some things in there that I don't agree with. But that is true of just about every budget I can remember. Overall, I think Team Trump has a plan, and it just might work. On that, I'm willing to take the risk.

The basic long term goals appear to be: Reduce the overall headcount of the federal government, cut out as much fraud as they can find, and grow the economy enough to make our debt to GDP ratio manageable.
That looks like the plan. Some of us are going to get some pain as a result. But having a federal government that looks more like it was before Woodrow Wilson... that might just be worth it. We've been living under the Progressive/Socialist model for so long it is hard to wrap the mind around what that looks like.

Meanwhile... some of us live in states that might be negatively impacted by passage of the HPA in that budget. This morning's task was to shoot an email to Ryan Warner (my district's rep in the PA House) to ask his if anyone is currently looking at the PA statutes for pitfalls that may come should suppressors get stripped out of the NFA. I suggest we all start looking at our state laws for problems that come into effect should the NFA no longer be the over-arching rules regarding owning a suppressor.
 
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clm2112 said:
But having a federal government that looks more like it was before Woodrow Wilson... that might just be worth it. We've been living under the Progressive/Socialist model for so long it is hard to wrap the mind around what that looks like.
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Many Americans do not realize that we have been suffering through the damages of progressivism for over a century.

The BBB would be truly historic if this administration dealt with social security in a realistic manner. All the other cuts are rounding errors compared to this line item.

When I joined the workforce in the 90s I was told by many retirement advisors at several different employers to start contributing to my retirement then, when I was my 20s. All of them said, even at that time to not count upon social security to give me anything in retirement. So I have planned for my future with that in mind.

Just out of curiosity, how many of you expect to get anything out of social security? I would gladly give up the HPA and any promise to receive social secutity payments if this administration created a plan to phase out social security. It is and always has been a ponzi scheme. Our falling fertility rate - something nobody was expecting 100 years ago, is only exacerbating the situation. Getting ahead of our national debt would make America much more secure, for generations to come.

The progressive solution, modern monetary policy, would be to mint a few trillion dollar coins to place in the mint and keep the firehose of federal money flowing. Republicans keep their heads in the sand when they hold power. Dealing with social security is politically toxic which is why neither side wants to touch it. DJT, as a lame duck president has nothing to loose in crafting a solution to it that would balance the books going forward. His enemies will still hate him for it and his friends will applaud everything he does. History will remember that about him more than anything else he has done.
 
Very good news... The Senate added the SHORT Act to the budget bill, along with the preemption language to solve most of the States that have laws that explicitly rely on complying on federal regulation. As a practical matter, "Pistol Braces" would no longer be a thing if this passes. They probably will continue to exist for those people who actually need to use them as designed. But conversion of long guns into hand guns would also more or less cease to be an issue.... there would no longer be that specially regulated and taxes class of firearm to run afoul of.

Despite some of the odious things in the budget bill, I figure chopping two things out of the even more odious NFA is worth the price. There is time to fix some of our financial and entitlement crap, but we may only get one chance to gut the NFA in my lifetime.

For me personally, I'm not planning on lopping off the pin and welded barrels if this passes. But long term, barrel length selection will revert back to an engineering decision, based on cartridge selection and intended use, instead of some bullshit regulation. As barrels wear out, they will get replaced with whatever length I think is appropriate for the use.

My own thoughts on what might be the future of arms in a US that no longer has to deal with 1930's bullshit regs: Integrally Suppressed firearms. Build the mufflers into the exhaust pipe from the start instead of adding it on after. Like a 9" pistol caliber or 300 Blackout rifle upper with a built in suppressor that didn't require $400 worth of government permission slips to obtain.
 
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clm2112 said:
Very good news... The Senate added the SHORT Act to the budget bill, along with the preemption language to solve most of the States that have laws that explicitly rely on complying on federal regulation. As a practical matter, "Pistol Braces" would no longer be a thing if this passes. They probably will continue to exist for those people who actually need to use them as designed. But conversion of long guns into hand guns would also more or less cease to be an issue.... there would no longer be that specially regulated and taxes class of firearm to run afoul of.

Despite some of the odious things in the budget bill, I figure chopping two things out of the even more odious NFA is worth the price. There is time to fix some of our financial and entitlement crap, but we may only get one chance to gut the NFA in my lifetime.

For me personally, I'm not planning on lopping off the pin and welded barrels if this passes. But long term, barrel length selection will revert back to an engineering decision, based on cartridge selection and intended use, instead of some bullshit regulation. As barrels wear out, they will get replaced with whatever length I think is appropriate for the use.

My own thoughts on what might be the future of arms in a US that no longer has to deal with 1930's bullshit regs: Integrally Suppressed firearms. Build the mufflers into the exhaust pipe from the start instead of adding it on after. Like a 9" pistol caliber or 300 Blackout rifle upper with a built in suppressor that didn't require $400 worth of government permission slips to obtain.
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I'll be stunned if any of that passes. I predict it will get stripped out of the bill. No way they're getting rid of any of the NFA crap.
 
Bongo Lewi said:
If cans get deprecated from the NFA buy a bunch of them - quick. While you can.
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Why? Are you worried about supply? There might be a shortage for a few minutes, but I'm pretty sure that will only take as long as it takes thousands of new suppliers to come online.
 
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