I guess my civics is not up to speed. How many times can they bat this thing back and forth between the House and the Senate??
The House passed the budget with the HPA!
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Well, Spoke to Jason at Silencer Shop about purchasing without paying the tax stamp. They are ok with doing this and will hold the transfer for as long as I wish, to see how the Congress eventually works this out.
So, yesterday morning I plunked down the money for a YHM Resonator R2. Then went last night over to the local FFL/Silencer Shop dealer to meet him, do the biometric stuff so Silencer Shop has that at the ready, and did the eForm account setup. While I bristle at giving them this information, the reallity is that the government has all of it already from my past. The feds have my fingerprints from buying M1 Garands through the CMP, my address from the IRS and all the 4473's I've filled out over the years, etc, etc. I'm just regurgitating what they already know.
Now I wait and see what happens. I have the serial number of the can, it is sitting in Silencer Shop's facility, and all that is left is: A.) Pay the $205 tax stamp and fee under the current law. B.) Pay the $0 tax under the potential new law. or C.) Not have to do the Form 4 at all if Congress hits a home run outta the park. Which will be just the 4473 and NICS background check to take it home.
So, yesterday morning I plunked down the money for a YHM Resonator R2. Then went last night over to the local FFL/Silencer Shop dealer to meet him, do the biometric stuff so Silencer Shop has that at the ready, and did the eForm account setup. While I bristle at giving them this information, the reallity is that the government has all of it already from my past. The feds have my fingerprints from buying M1 Garands through the CMP, my address from the IRS and all the 4473's I've filled out over the years, etc, etc. I'm just regurgitating what they already know.
Now I wait and see what happens. I have the serial number of the can, it is sitting in Silencer Shop's facility, and all that is left is: A.) Pay the $205 tax stamp and fee under the current law. B.) Pay the $0 tax under the potential new law. or C.) Not have to do the Form 4 at all if Congress hits a home run outta the park. Which will be just the 4473 and NICS background check to take it home.
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As many times as they want. There is no limit to the reconciliation process. The process end when both bills match and a yes vote, or either chamber gives up with a majority no vote.... then they have to start over with new bills.
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Yep, and how many got fingerprinted when they got their concealed carry permit? It's on file and if it is in a government data base they have access. What IS annoying is that you have to go through this same process for each purchase. I mean, they have your prints in the system so why keep doing it over and over? Would be nice if they could skip that process if you've gone through it the first time as it just adds time, complexity, and cost to the transaction.
Again... my concern isn't that they'll get information about me that they already have.... or even more information. My objection is that the device is REGISTERED.... TO... ME. And ONLY me. And only I can possess it. And I have have "proper documentation" WITH ME at all times while in possession of the device. I can't sell it. I can't gift it. I have to be able to prove its whereabouts. In some cases, I can't transport across state lines.
I don't have to do any of that with my current firearms. They might know I originally bought them - those that came from an FFL. It ends there. They don't know their disposition, nor do I have to provide proof of their disposition. Nor do I need permission to transfer them - or even document that I transferred them. Nor do I have to have "proper documentation" to be in possession of them.
How is objection this not clear? The only way to dispute the objection is to CHANGE it into something else. That's known as a "Red Herring." It's misdirection.
How is this even a "debate?" There's a HUGE difference between NFA items and non-NFA firearms.
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It isn't a debate with me. My point of view has always been that the government has no right to regulate any of this. The founders were so afraid of what a federal government might do with this power that they codified it by passing the Second Amendment. Unfortunately, the past century has proved their fears correct and this is the world we currently live in.
As I have stated before, I am ready, willing, and able to manufacture one of these souped up mufflers the minute the current law gets dumped in the trash can. And I have repeatedly let my elected representatives know that I absolutely want them to consign the NFA to the dust bin.
Changing the subject again.
There are those (including you) here who are trying to convince me that my reasoning for NOT buying an NFA item is flawed, because "They already have your information." And those people are simply wrong about my reasoning and are changing it to suit their argument.
I will not buy an NFA item as long as that item remains regulated by the NFA. It's not about the money. It's not about them having my personal information. So spare me the "They already have your personal information," as if I'm too stupid to realize that. Yeah... no shit. I think I made my objection quite clear, and I am pointing out the Red Herrings being used by those trying to convince me otherwise.
I do understand that many people don't care about the things I care about. They're willing to register, jump through the hoops, and abide the restrictions in order to have the device. Cool. Enjoy in good health! I'm simply not willing to do those things in exchange for being allowed to have those items.
Now... if they take suppressors and SBRs off the NFA list... I might be interested, as suppressors have some real utility, for example. Do I believe that's going to happen? NOPE. They keep dangling the carrot, but it's not going to happen, IMO. I hope I'm wrong!
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NFA gun trusts are also a great way to allow family and close friends access to your NFA items. NFA trusts for suppressors are especially popular for this reason. You can put multiple people on a trust, which legally allows them to use an NFA item like a suppressor without you being physically present. In other words, if you want to let somebody borrow your suppressor and take it hunting, you can do that by putting them on your trust.
This doesn’t impact estate planning, as many people can be on a trust, but only one can be designated to take ownership after death. So as you can see, there are a lot of advantages to NFA trusts, from estate planning, to faster processing, to allowing family and friends access to your NFA items.
This doesn’t impact estate planning, as many people can be on a trust, but only one can be designated to take ownership after death. So as you can see, there are a lot of advantages to NFA trusts, from estate planning, to faster processing, to allowing family and friends access to your NFA items.
AND, if they finally get "matching" bills, POTUS still has to sign it...
Hoops. Lots of hoops and permissions. Nope. Not interested in doing any of that in exchange for being able to attach a muffler to my pistol. It's just not worth it to me. Not even for $0... because it's not about the money... at all.
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Even a slight win is a win as it will save me $200 per built suppressor which I’ll happily take. Is it
Ideal, no but, at least, it’s a step in the right direction and we are getting something vs having it taken away.
Ideal, no but, at least, it’s a step in the right direction and we are getting something vs having it taken away.
I'm not optimistic about the final bill including an amendment to remove these tings from the NFA, but still hopeful.
I am absolutely sure, that if it does make it to POTUS's desk, he'll sign it.
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The trusts used to be a really good option. Now, all trustees on the trust much submit fingerprints, photo, signed forms, etc for each purchase. Creates a bigger pain if the goal is to share access. The estate aspects are not super clear either - I guess with multiple trustees it works for a while, but whenever the trust dissolves, a transfer tax stamp to the new entitity or person is likely needed. I have heard that sometimes a $0 tax transfer can be approved in such situations, but it is not guarantreed.
I think they should have waited until the bill passed and see what actually gets signed into law.
This is basically signaling the gun grabbers our next move. There's still enough time to change it to a 50 cent tax to save the NFA, it will go down, if it's no longer a tax.
Not if you put it in a Trust. Any Trustee named on the Trust can have possession. Or you could form a corporation and anyone listed as an employee and responsible person can have possession.
But you can leave to an heir. You can sell it. The buyer has to go through the F4 process just like the first buyer did.
Yes, you can. The crossing state lines thing is for MG, SBR, SBS.
You're late to the party. Before rule 41F took effect, Trusts did not provide pics and prints.
And at one time, you could just send them the Declaration of Trust, which had no names on it.
Now of course if they really wanted to know, all they had to do was contact the dealer and ask who he sold the can to...just like with any firearm.
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Again... hoops. Not interested in begging permission and having it registered.
Yes... I know.... back to begging permission and registering a provenance. Don't have to do that with any of my guns or accessories.
Yes. I know. I was talking about NFA items in general. So a suppressor is the EXCEPTION to the rule... proving the rule, of course. And there are pesky state laws you have to contend with.
It's really quite funny.... folks who have gone through the NFA Form 4 will go to great (and illogical) lengths to convince me to do what they've done.... and that my objections are without merit. I'm certainly not trying to convince anyone who wants to jump through the hoops and register permission to not do it. Hey... if it floats your boat, go for it. But the arguments fall flat when they're based on red herrings such as, "They've already got your name and number." That is not the basis of my objection, and I've made that quite clear.
If I can buy an NFA item similarly to any gun or accessory, then I'll be interested. But if what I'm going to call the "provenance requirement" remains intact, then I'm out, dawg. That's just MY "line in the sand." We all have our own proclivities and boundaries.
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All it takes is a prosecutor to say you didn't go through the correct hoop and you are screwed for life. I'm with Racer88. I'm not opening that door to getting F-ed by someone with a novel interpretation of the law.
If I had Trump money and nothing better to do with my time than fight a law suit, I would do it. I don't and I'm not going to give "them" a chance.
Eliminate all the hoops and I'm in.
If I had Trump money and nothing better to do with my time than fight a law suit, I would do it. I don't and I'm not going to give "them" a chance.
Eliminate all the hoops and I'm in.