Does anyone carry one of their builds?

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Racer88 said:
The difference being... There is no recognized Right to Keep and Fly Airplanes.
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In many other fields home built stuff needs to be inspected and certified before use.
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👆🏽
Did you miss that line?
A Constitutional right doesn’t mean you’re free of responsibility or liability.

If your state laws allow it carry your home built.
I won’t.
Unless I’m going fishing in the boonies maybe……
The Right to do something and whether it’s WISE to do so are two different things.
Wisdom is in the eye of the beholder though.
Everybody wins.
 
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Alpa Chino said:
A Constitutional right doesn’t mean you’re free of responsibility or liability.
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But it does mean the gov't cannot impose Prior Restraint. It may not be smart to falsely "yell fire" in the proverbial theater. But it is NOT illegal to do so (as is often fallaciously claimed)... because Prior Restraint is unconstitutional. But, if your actions cause damages, then you cannot claim constitutional protections from related liability. So, for example... if you yell "fire" in the proverbial non-burning theater... AND no damages are incurred (they just point and laugh at you), you cannot be charged with any crime or be liable for non-existent damages.

Similarly, you cannot claim 1A protection if you commit slander or libel and cause damage to the recipient or target of your "speech."

Alpa Chino said:
If your state laws allow it carry your home built.
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I don't think it's a matter of whether the law stipulates which kind of gun you can carry (PMF vs Factory). But it certainly matters if PMFs are categorically legal in your state. If you can't even have an unserialized PMF, you surely can't carry one.

Are there states with laws that stipulate the origin of the gun you carry? I'm not aware of any such laws. But that doesn't mean they don't exist, of course. In other words... you can have a PMF, but you can't carry it? Any such statutes?

My personal approach as mentioned before.... is to carry my serialized P80. Serialized at the factory and obtained with a 4473 through an FFL. I figured I would hedge my legal bets and have the best of both worlds.
 
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There are plenty of laws
  • Reckless endangerment
  • Involuntary manslaughter
You yourself have posted here with idiots from Reddit that “self assemble”, should they carry their gun?
Why not?
So “we” are different?
“We” can garantee we didn’t make a mistake and the gun is safe and reliable enough to carry for that “one time”?

Some of you have thousands of rounds fired without a hiccup.
Most don’t.

Should you carry a factory gun without having shot it? Probably not unless you have to in which case the chances of it working reliably are good.
While the chances of a home built working reliably first time out are not.
Especially with a mix-n-match of parts.

Again, you’re free to carry.
I won’t.

You can have a working dog and you can have a pet. Sometimes they can be the same, sometimes not.
Why confuse a hobby gun with a ‘working’ gun, they’re not necessarily the same.
 
Alpa Chino said:
There are plenty of laws
  • Reckless endangerment
  • Involuntary manslaughter
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At what point is pointing a PMF at an aggressor and consciously pulling the trigger at all related to reckless endangerment or involuntary manslaughter?


Or more importantly how are either of those things related to ANYTHING that Racer said, Lol:
Racer88 said:
Are there states with laws that stipulate the origin of the gun you carry? I'm not aware of any such laws. But that doesn't mean they don't exist, of course. In other words... you can have a PMF, but you can't carry it? Any such statutes?
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Back on the topic of the original post...

Here is the beautiful babe that I am carrying 100% carefree and legally today:

IMG_1097.jpg
 
A lot to unpack here...

Alpa Chino said:
You yourself have posted here with idiots from Reddit that “self assemble”, should they carry their gun?
Why not?
So “we” are different?
“We” can garantee we didn’t make a mistake and the gun is safe and reliable enough to carry for that “one time”?
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I'm not sure what you're suggesting I said about the "idiots on reddit." While I've commented on the lack of attention to detail or lack of what we like to call "FTQ" (first time quality)... I don't believe I've said anything about whether the redditors (?) should carry or not carry their builds. But many of them shouldn't even go to the firing line at a range! LOL!

Alpa Chino said:
Should you carry a factory gun without having shot it? Probably not unless you have to in which case the chances of it working reliably are good.
While the chances of a home built working reliably first time out are not.
Especially with a mix-n-match of parts.
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I'd bet a majority of concealed carriers have not adequately vetted their factory carry guns. I'd even bet a significant portion of them have never even fired their weapons. I recently spent 6 hours with a LICENSED concealed carrier who did not know how to unload his gun(s). He had three loaded guns and did not know how to unload any of them.

Alpa Chino said:
Again, you’re free to carry.
I won’t.
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We all have different tolerances for perceived risks, eh? I feel 100% confident in the reliability, safety, and relative legal risks of my PFC9, which is a serialized frame obtained via an FFL with a 4473. As of Sunday, I've got 6,630 rounds through it. All internal parts, including the trigger, are OEM Glock parts. Mas Ayoob advised me to have the same trigger (and trigger pull weight) as a stock factory Glock.

One of Sunday's targets:
Target-6.jpg


Alpa Chino said:
Why confuse a hobby gun with a ‘working’ gun, they’re not necessarily the same.
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Absolutely agree. It's funny... there are those "enthusiast" denizens of various gun forums who STRICTLY believe that ALL guns are "defensive tools." They vehemently disagree with the notion of buying (or building) a gun intended as a hobby or range gun. It's really kind of weird. But here we are.

So... would I carry my other P80s (built on 80% frames)? Certainly not as a matter of routine. And probably never. Mostly because I don't need to. I built them as hobby guns, as you call them. I've got plenty of factory guns and one "100%" / serialized P80 that can fulfill defensive roles.... which I sincerely hope to never find out. So far, so good!
 
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@JCinPA

If assaulted in the street of a big city and have no choice but to defend yourself, it may be best to stop the threat and then walk away. The truth will not set you free in those urban courts.

Personally, I think living in a major city or the adjacent suburbs today is taking on a big risk. You will eventually become a victim of a crime. The overwhelming majority of citizens are grass eaters. Meaning... prey. They will not band together and 'take their town or neighborhood back'. They don't have the balls to do that.
 
Alpa Chino said:
Anything to make a weapon “more lethal” including large capacity magazines, optics, lasers, after market triggers, ammo with exciting marketing gimmicky names…all fair game in court.
Why did you modify the trigger? Make it easier to pull? Easier to murder people that stumble into your house at night?
With R.I.P ammo no less?!
That it’s available and legal doesn’t make it wise.

Consider this, so you bought your teenager a high performance car? You didn’t buy the regular version you bought the car with the V8 Hemi. If that wasn’t enough you had a performance increasing exhaust mounted, racing wheels installed and the engine chipped.
All to encourage reckless behavior that caused the loss of control and the crash with a fatality. Now try and explain that away in court.

As far as Ayoob? No doubt the man is an expert but I’ve seen some seriously cringeworthy YouTube videos where he advocates carrying a 1911 because a lot of bad people wouldn’t know how to work the safety.
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Kinda like having a stick shift car.
 
Racer88 said:
How would the officer know you are carrying (anything) at all in the case of a traffic stop? There is no duty to inform in PA. (I just looked it up.)


True.


Please cite one case where the jury AND JUDGE have ignored the LAW and convicted and sentenced a person without regard to the legality of the use of lethal force in self-defense. In other words, they completely ignored the Five Elements and convicted based on the TYPE of weapon.

I'll wait.


Why would you carry a PMF on your property (presumably for defensive purposes) considering your concerns mentioned above? The laws are exactly the same. And the (very) hypothetical concerns about the jury's views on PMFs wouldn't change, eh? What is the difference between on your property vs off?

I understand that the prosecution would try to leverage the jury's ignorance and emotions. But I do not believe that using a LEGAL PMF in LEGALLY-JUSTIFIABLE self-defense would be the sole factor in a conviction. Yes, it will be brought up. But it would be EASILY refuted by the defense, especially in the context of a totally justifiable use of force in self-defense.

That all said... my EDC is a P80... and yes, I "built" it. But I did use a serialized frame to "hedge my bets." But even though it's serialized, I'm sure they'd STILL try to paint it as a "👻gun." You better believe they would..... because they'll try anything.

If it's not a PMF, they'll use your participation on a gun forum to paint you in a bad light. They'll try ANYTHING to paint you in a bad light.

But would they WIN a conviction based ONLY on that? No way, IMO.
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Anyone remember Kyle Rittenhouse??? He spent time in jail and his acquittal was anything but a slam dunk. George Zimmerman had his life destroyed. Look at the couple trying to protect their home from a mob. Even without being convicted their lives were pretty much destroyed.
 
This is my Heavy Carry rig. 7" 357sig fullsize poly80 with red dot, light/laser and 3 30 rnd reloads. Pretty much everything I could possibly do wrong I suppose. It's not my EDC but nice to know it's an option.
 

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Hvymax said:
Anyone remember Kyle Rittenhouse??? He spent time in jail and his acquittal was anything but a slam dunk. George Zimmerman had his life destroyed. Look at the couple trying to protect their home from a mob. Even without being convicted their lives were pretty much destroyed.
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Ummm... yeah... we remember them.

Kyle would be dead if he hadn't defended himself.

Probably the same with Zimmerman.

The Atlanta couple were just plain stupid, IMO. Stepping outside and exposing themselves like that was colossally stupid.

It's a chance you take when you use lethal force to defend yourself. So, better be sure that the alternative is grievous bodily harm to yourself or loved ones.
 
Racer88 said:
Something that comes to mind... In states that do not have a duty to inform... and recently passed "Constitutional Carry" in the form of permit-less concealed carry... Will officers now begin routinely ASKING if you are carrying a weapon? And if so, do you THEN have to inform?
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I was recently pulled over for speeding. I happened to be going to renew my license to carry concealed. And since I was going into a gov't building to do that, I stashed my EDC in the glove box when I got in the car. Normally, I'd have it holstered and on me, of course.

When I was pulled over, he asked for license and registration. The registration is in the glove box, so in this case I decided to inform the officer, "I want to let you know there is a firearm in the glove box."

Very casually, he replied, "Well, you're not gonna shoot me, right?"

I replied, "Definitely not!"

And we finished our "transaction" without any drama. In fact it was very cordial.
 
Racer88 said:
Ummm... yeah... we remember them.

Kyle would be dead if he hadn't defended himself.

Probably the same with Zimmerman.

The Atlanta couple were just plain stupid, IMO. Stepping outside and exposing themselves like that was colossally stupid.

It's a chance you take when you use lethal force to defend yourself. So, better be sure that the alternative is grievous bodily harm to yourself or loved ones.
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I believe the couple mentioned is from the St Louis area, not that their location really matters. Except for the fact that MO is a red state with conservative congress, senate and governor. Though the STL area, like ATL, leans to the other side. Most larger metropolitan areas do for some reason. The governor said he would likely pardon the couple if they were convicted
 
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seniormoment said:
I believe the couple mentioned is from the St Louis area, not that their location really matters. Except for the fact that MO is a red state with conservative congress, senate and governor. Though the STL area, like ATL, leans to the other side. Most larger metropolitan areas do for some reason. The governor said he would likely pardon the couple if they were convicted
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You're right... STL not ATL. :)

They were still stupid. ;)
 
How I see it is I don't own a single firearm with a serial #, because government. With that being said I believe in the constitution. I Edc a pf45in 10mm aiwb whit a teir 1 concealed axis slim and 2 extended mags +5 from SLR Rifleworks. In my vehicle sits a 12ish inch ar10 pistol and 18 inch rifle. I will say I live in the gunshine state here I'd say 75% of adults have at least 1 firearm. I'm an absolutist about the 2nd amendment because it is the only amendment that says shall not be infringed when our founding fathers wrote this they knew that it would be the only thing to keep us free. But most importantly IT'S BETTER TO BE JUDGED MY 12 THEN CARRIED BY 6!
 
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